Camera location/type query

[nmwhitneyjr]

Greetings all,
I'm curious as to what locations you would place cameras on my house (pic below). I plan on starting out with 4 or 5 cameras. I'm keen on the idea of using wide view spotter cams in conjunction with a PTZ (but I'm not married to the idea if it's not the best use of $). The second pic is a zoom out so you can see the surrounding streets.

I have my own ideas regarding placement, but I'd appreciate any advice.

Sincerely,
Norm

In the pic:
Green circle - large maple tree about 35 ft high.
Yellow - entry doors / garage doors.
Purple - basement level windows that are literally within a foot of the ground (gotta love a mid-70's split level).
Red - actual property line.
Our storage building is in the SE corner of the lot.


The east/west street dead ends into woods on both sides.

 

[ludshed]

Maybe post some pics from ground level, especially the tree.

 

[bigredfish]

I'd note one mistake common among newbies.

You can probably "see" your property with 4-5 wide angle cameras.

You wont be able to 'Identify" much beyond 15-20 ft in the day, even less at night from any of them.


3 Examples (top and bottom
Some cameras let me "see" things


Other cameras allow me to "Identify" those things

 

[mat200]

Greetings all,
I'm curious as to what locations you would place cameras on my house (pic below). I plan on starting out with 4 or 5 cameras. I'm keen on the idea of using wide view spotter cams in conjunction with a PTZ (but I'm not married to the idea if it's not the best use of $). The second pic is a zoom out so you can see the surrounding streets.

I have my own ideas regarding placement, but I'd appreciate any advice.

Sincerely,
Norm

In the pic:
Green circle - large maple tree about 35 ft high.
Yellow - entry doors / garage doors.
Purple - basement level windows that are literally within a foot of the ground (gotta love a mid-70's split level).
Red - actual property line.
Our storage building is in the SE corner of the lot.
View attachment 192790

The east/west street dead ends into woods on both sides.

View attachment 192791

Welcome @nmwhitneyjr

As you are on a corner lot you have a lot more exposure .. so do expect to need more cameras to get coverage .. also, looks like due to the setup, your neighbors properties can also be used to egress onto your property .. so I would expect needing a lot more cameras than normal.

I would start with this ..

Area 1 and 2 .. try to get enough pixels in this zone for ID of a car and people .. look for a choke point to do that .. overview also to get the larger picture ..
Area 3 .. get enough pixels here to ID ..

 

[nmwhitneyjr]

(I added an aerial view to the original post so folks can see the tree on the corner.)


Thank you Mat200. With those locations in mind, where and what type of cameras would you install (using locations numbered in this pic):

 

[mat200]

(I added an aerial view to the original post so folks can see the tree on the corner.)


Thank you Mat200. With those locations in mind, where and what type of cameras would you install (using locations numbered in this pic):

View attachment 192924

Remember you will need to test locations before drilling and running cables ..

Suggest getting a good varifocal 4MP 1/1.8", a length of cat5e/6 with 23 24 awg, a small poe switch and look for the test rig others are using and start playing around and seeing if you can get what you want from the positions you are looking at.

normally I want anyone walking to my front door and garage to have to go through at least 2 "ID zones" so I have a least 2 chances of getting an ID shot ..

I would apply this also to your back / side doors

 

[nmwhitneyjr]

Good advice all around Mat200. What camera do you think would be a good "test cam"? And for the test setup would it be easier to get an sd card cam or set it up with BI on my laptop for temporary testing?

That brings me to another question (not to derail my own thread). I'm on the fence about an NVR based system vs. Blue Iris. Seems that most NVR systems aren't going to be as infinitely configurable as BI. But there's my hesitation... I really want more of an easily "set and forget" type of system more than I want to spend hours+hours setting up and tweaking to the nth degree. I did that (and still do) when I built/setup my gaming pc... and my HT setup... and my old stereo equipment... I don't need another time consuming tech obsession.

Now if the answer is "put on your big boy pants and get BI", just say so.

 

[wittaj]

This is the go-to test camera. It is a varifocal and king of the hill standard for most of us:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/ref=sr_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9._KZvHRPP2lFaFmD4xy_-DK8ad8M4_ajg7AoLR_sYkSBb6fyFmOKNtQAEURpej5l9FnZEA4iNqNRFxLJnN-31I5RNjBolupxCfrZwl_30izyoGtx9taxWAsPDyQ_3_qHp7wZZAh9DndWO5TU80GjJahYrFL9SCWCAzLG7dyKuTlGD2Wzm-rCM-lCank9IU-ppvTYdcZmLuXXV2duaj1hiTDF0YNZepgnyiF2GdMi371Q.HENgtv2leir4VGsHJsQ3lllIxLuVEDA2ogyJjt1Mod0&dib_tag=se&keywords=empire+tech&qid=1714044423&sr=8-3

These types of systems, even the NVR, are not plug-n-play and set and forget type systems.

It is the consumer grade Ring and Arlos and Reolink and Blink and SimpliSafe and whatever you can buy at a big box store (or the peddlers going door-to-door) that sells just that - simplicity plug-n-play devices with very little ability to tweak settings. But that simplicity comes at the expense of usable video with motion, especially at night, as well as losing the ability to dial in trigger configurations. My neighbor got a Ring system and had me help them get it going. Like literally scan the code and draw an area and it was done. But they get false triggers all the time (and worse missing triggers) and there is no customization available to tweak it.


Even a great system like Dahua, if you use it on the default/auto settings will result in poor performance. You will have to log into each camera and tweak the settings (shutter speed, brightness, contrast, gamma, etc.) to your field of view in order to get optimal performance.

Do not be amazed and accept the great static image the camera will provide on auto/default settings. At night, it will result in motion blur.

Same with the NVR, you will have to get in and make adjustments to get the system to perform like you want.

You can set up BI and not have to constantly tinker with it. Mine has been going for over 3 years without being touched. Turn off Windows and BI updates and you have a more powerful NVR.

Now what you see is many of us tinker because BI adds way more features and functionality than an NVR ever does. But many get it going to fit their needs and then don't touch it.

There is a big debate here on which one is better. Here is a link to the many comparisons:

blue iris vs nvr ip cam site:ipcamtalk.com - Google Search

 

[TonyR]

I'm on the fence about an NVR based system vs. Blue Iris. Seems that most NVR systems aren't going to be as infinitely configurable as BI. But there's my hesitation... I really want more of an easily "set and forget" type of system more than I want to spend hours+hours setting up and tweaking to the nth degree.

For the record, NVR's aren't exactly "set and forget" either.....cameras, especially with AI, need just as much "tweaking" when used with a NVR as they do with BI.

I don't recall changing anything on my BI in 2 years except to add 2 new cameras.

 

[nmwhitneyjr]

So it's "put on big boy pants and go with BI"... fair enough!

 

[TonyR]

So it's "put on big boy pants and go with BI"... fair enough!

Certainly I'm a BI fan but in fairness, be sure to read the threads found in these Google search results of IPCT threads on "BI vs NVR" (courtesy of @wittaj ) before you commit.

 

[nmwhitneyjr]

Hooboy... a few of those NVR vs. BI threads had some serious pissing contests going on. I'm starting to lean towards BI (if for no other reason than I LOVE building PC's from scratch).

I bought the camera suggested above and an unmanaged POE switch. Wow <Owen Wilson voice>... there's a LOT going on in there to absorb and comprehend.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah, people are adamant in their opinion LOL.....and some in those threads that are NVR lovers have since switched over to BI....those in the BI camp haven't switched back to the NVR LOL.

Keep in mind building a PC from scratch is overkill.

An i7-8th gen for $150 off ebay is more than enough.

 

[nmwhitneyjr]

Keep in mind building a PC from scratch is overkill.

Not so much scratch as I already have an AMD AM4 2700x cpu, motherboard and nvidia 1070ti sitting around not getting used.

 

[TonyR]

Not so much scratch as I already have an AMD AM4 2700x cpu, motherboard and nvidia 1070ti sitting around not getting used.

Then stay true to your signature line and go for it!

 

[mat200]

Good advice all around Mat200. What camera do you think would be a good "test cam"? And for the test setup would it be easier to get an sd card cam or set it up with BI on my laptop for temporary testing?

That brings me to another question (not to derail my own thread). I'm on the fence about an NVR based system vs. Blue Iris. Seems that most NVR systems aren't going to be as infinitely configurable as BI. But there's my hesitation... I really want more of an easily "set and forget" type of system more than I want to spend hours+hours setting up and tweaking to the nth degree. I did that (and still do) when I built/setup my gaming pc... and my HT setup... and my old stereo equipment... I don't need another time consuming tech obsession.

Now if the answer is "put on your big boy pants and get BI", just say so.

If you already have the pc go with blue iris and a small poe switch to start .. wittaj got a good camera to start with.

Once you setup and configure the cameras and settings, you should be good with a stable setup.

For most people the major time and effort is running the cabling. This is WHT finding the right positions is so important from the start as you really do not want to redo cable runs. .. with the folks in this forum sharing their experiences you should be able to use their guidance to tune the parameters well enough to get a stable setup rather quickly.

 

[nmwhitneyjr]

Ended up getting a refurb Dell sffpc with an i7 8700, 16gb ram, 256gb ssd, a 3tb hdd and win11 pro. It was considerably less than getting what I needed to use my old gpu and cpu. Building my test rig tomorrow with the suggested T54IR-ZE cam. I'll replace the hdd with a larger surveillance rated drive after I get done testing placements, etc. Still feeling like BI is beyond my needs/skill (but I bought it anyway).

 

[sdkid]

Ended up getting a refurb Dell sffpc with an i7 8700, 16gb ram, 256gb ssd, a 3tb hdd and win11 pro. It was considerably less than getting what I needed to use my old gpu and cpu. Building my test rig tomorrow with the suggested T54IR-ZE cam. I'll replace the hdd with a larger surveillance rated drive after I get done testing placements, etc. Still feeling like BI is beyond my needs/skill (but I bought it anyway).

You won't regret it. I think BI is the absolute best value in software out there, and the development continues to be top-notch. I have never had an NVR-- I don't like the idea of being limited to the capabilities designed by the NVR maker, and the limitations of the hardware in those boxes.

I am piecing together a system for my brother to use at a business property he owns that is currently vacant. For him, I just got an HP Elitedesk i-5 8500 for $118 on ebay. Personally I will finally upgrade my own 9 yr old hardware (an i-5 4th gen) to an HP z2 g4 workstation tower-- i5-8500 as well, for $149. It's amazing to me that an excellent video storage system can run efficiently on old used hardware.

Since my cameras started popping up on my house--- I don't have issues with vandals or thieves. The deterrent value is excellent as they stay clear of the house with the cams.
Good luck with your project-- great advice to start small with a few cams to get your feet wet (and make "mistakes" on a small scale) -- then refine your plan and dive into it. Welcome to your new addiction!