Camera model selection advice

[elspike]

Hi Team.
Hopefully this is in the correct place.

I am doing a renovation and planning out a simple camera setup that will be used mostly for Deterrence and Surveillance but if there is some Identification then that would be good in the event of an incident.

I'm currently looking at Duhua but open to other recommendations. PoE is being run to all mount points. Most likely feeding to either a dedicated NVR or to a Frigate server.
My initial thought was to just get 4 x IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 but once I started digging deeper I thought I would ask the hive mind on thoughts and guidance.

Current plan:
please note. I cannot put a camera on the left side path as there are neighbour bedrooms behind a fence and as they are teenage girls I want nothing to do with even a hint of badness. Their house is so close that it is almost impossible for someone to enter through the side sliding door without passing one of the covered areas.



I took some pictures with my iPhone in 0.5 mode about 20-30cm below the hight the cameras would be mounted (I can't reach that high)


Camera 1: Focus is on anyone coming in the back gate or through the garage door.


Camera 2: Focus is on making sure I can watch as someone steals our bikes ;-)



Camera 3: Focus on who comes through the front gate and identification if they are heading down the side under the camera.


Camera 4: Focus on package detection (postie leaves packages next to the post by the door, and secondary identification for people at the door.


Thanks in advance and I really hope I've provided all the information you need to help me.

 

[camdensnyder]

I would recommend the T54IR-S3-3.6mm for all your locations except the garage I would do a T54IR-S3-2.8mm. The camera you already said is great too! I personally feel like my fixed cameras get a better pic than the varifocal. Both are great though. Side note: Dahua cameras have a setting called privacy making which allows you to draw a box over areas you don’t want to record and see. It places a black box on the screen.

 

[elspike]

Thanks for the advice. I get that there are privacy settings but I’d feel more comfortable not having any lens pointed in that direction. I think I’ll be fine with the coverage I’ve laid out.

 

[Ri22o]

You will be asking too much of some of these cameras. You need to decide if you want Detection (surveillance) or Identification; they are opposite ends of the spectrum. It is recommended to test positions and fields of view with a varifocal camera before committing to a focal length or position.

Camera 1 - Back gate or garage door. You need to pick one, or have a camera for each door.
Camera 2 - If you are wanting a general overview, then a T54IR-AS in 3.6mm will likely be fine.
Camera 3 - To focus on who comes through the gate (Identify), you will need to be zoomed and focused on the gate. This will take away your ability to get an ID if they walk under the camera.
Camera 4 - This will require two cameras. To focus on the gate for ID, you will not be able to see the area the packages get delivered. Each area will need a camera dedicated for the job being asked of it. The gate camera from this position will also have a hard time with IR bounce at night.

One camera cannot do it all.

You cannot see everything and still see details. Getting good details does not allow you to see everything; it is a give and take.

This is why a good system will have cameras that complement each other. This is also why a PTZ is a complement to a good, already established system and should not be heavily relied on by itself.

When planning your system and layout start by focusing on choke points and set up fields of view to capture details and give the ability to ID. This means all this camera will be able to do/see is the very narrow scope of its job. You can then deploy a more general overview cam to give context to the details. This overview cam can support one or more of your choke point ID cams.

For instance, as an extreme example. I am deploying this camera. It's only job is to see people walking down the path behind my house. This is what I see 99% of the time when I look at the feed.


However, this is what I see when someone walks down the path, 95' feet away.


I then have these two cameras I can use to get a better idea/context of what they were doing and where they may have come from or gone to. The kill zone is between the green lines and the camera is on the fence at the bottom, center of the picture. You can see someone just entering the KZ and the 3.6mm focal length of this cam gives absolutely no details other than it might be a person.



This is the person in the above wide angle shot, and there is no way you would have been able to tell it was a male, in a red, flannel shirt, with sunglasses, and a receding hairline.


Below are a couple links to some of my threads which you might find helpful. I have learned a lot since joining and try to pay it forward when possible.

This is my on-going "build" thread.

Looking for advice on my install locations.

After posting my thread on where/whether to install the 4K-X I realized I may need to adjust the locations of some of my cameras and with Andy's sale coming up I wanted to get some opinions so I can buy any new hardware I may need. A little about where I live: My street is lit primarily by...

ipcamtalk.com

This is one I put together with images from my journey showing the differences between focal lengths, install heights, changing fields of view, etc.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I am treating this as a living document and will update it with new captures, information, etc from time to time since the journey and knowledge gained never ends. Even though it was originally posted in May of 2023, it is still very much relevant. I have gained a lot of knowledge since I...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

Thanks for the advice. I get that there are privacy settings but I’d feel more comfortable not having any lens pointed in that direction. I think I’ll be fine with the coverage I’ve laid out.

You spec'd out 4 fixed cams (IPC-T54IR-AS-S3) and he suggested the same 4 fixed lens cams with the focal length recommended for each camera....

 

[elspike]

You will be asking too much of some of these cameras. You need to decide if you want Detection (surveillance) or Identification; they are opposite ends of the spectrum. It is recommended to test positions and fields of view with a varifocal camera before committing to a focal length or position.

Camera 1 - Back gate or garage door. You need to pick one, or have a camera for each door.
Camera 2 - If you are wanting a general overview, then a T54IR-AS in 3.6mm will likely be fine.
Camera 3 - To focus on who comes through the gate (Identify), you will need to be zoomed and focused on the gate. This will take away your ability to get an ID if they walk under the camera.
Camera 4 - This will require two cameras. To focus on the gate for ID, you will not be able to see the area the packages get delivered. Each area will need a camera dedicated for the job being asked of it. The gate camera from this position will also have a hard time with IR bounce at night.

One camera cannot do it all.

You cannot see everything and still see details. Getting good details does not allow you to see everything; it is a give and take.

This is why a good system will have cameras that complement each other. This is also why a PTZ is a complement to a good, already established system and should not be heavily relied on by itself.

When planning your system and layout start by focusing on choke points and set up fields of view to capture details and give the ability to ID. This means all this camera will be able to do/see is the very narrow scope of its job. You can then deploy a more general overview cam to give context to the details. This overview cam can support one or more of your choke point ID cams.

For instance, as an extreme example. I am deploying this camera. It's only job is to see people walking down the path behind my house. This is what I see 99% of the time when I look at the feed.
View attachment 218289

However, this is what I see when someone walks down the path, 95' feet away.
View attachment 218290

I then have these two cameras I can use to get a better idea/context of what they were doing and where they may have come from or gone to. The kill zone is between the green lines and the camera is on the fence at the bottom, center of the picture. You can see someone just entering the KZ and the 3.6mm focal length of this cam gives absolutely no details other than it might be a person.
View attachment 218291
View attachment 218292

This is the person in the above wide angle shot, and there is no way you would have been able to tell it was a male, in a red, flannel shirt, with sunglasses, and a receding hairline.
View attachment 218293

Below are a couple links to some of my threads which you might find helpful. I have learned a lot since joining and try to pay it forward when possible.

This is my on-going "build" thread.

Looking for advice on my install locations.

After posting my thread on where/whether to install the 4K-X I realized I may need to adjust the locations of some of my cameras and with Andy's sale coming up I wanted to get some opinions so I can buy any new hardware I may need. A little about where I live: My street is lit primarily by...

ipcamtalk.com

This is one I put together with images from my journey showing the differences between focal lengths, install heights, changing fields of view, etc.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I am treating this as a living document and will update it with new captures, information, etc from time to time since the journey and knowledge gained never ends. Even though it was originally posted in May of 2023, it is still very much relevant. I have gained a lot of knowledge since I...

ipcamtalk.com

Incredible amount of information! Thank you. Lots to assimilate.

It’s unlikely I will get agreement on installing multiple cameras in those positions. I guess I need to think about the priorities which shooting from the hip I think will be more about Detection rather than identification.

You spec'd out 4 fixed cams (IPC-T54IR-AS-S3) and he suggested the same 4 fixed lens cams with the focal length recommended for each camera....

Sorry. My comment was around the privacy statement which I took to be about not wanting to point cameras down the side near my neighbors bedrooms. Apologies if I misconstrued or of my reply came across as ungrateful.

The recommendation on focal lengths are well received.