Camera placement recommendations for new-to-me home

[lostinpangea]

Hello,

I'm moving into a new-to-me home and would really appreciate the hive-mind recommendations for camera placements. I'm attaching 3 diagrams including recommendations from installer #1, installer #2, and my own ideas.

The house is located on a quiet street and lighting is fairly poor, but existent. There is a long (approx 120 ft) single driveway on the left side of the house leading to a detached garage. There is approximately 30' of property extending past the back of the detached garage. At the front of the house, there are 4 cedar trees about 15' high - one at each front corner of the house, and one at each side of the front porch. All are close in tight to the house, and could block camera views. I plan to prune them back a bit, but they need to be taken into account. The right side of the house is difficult to access due to hedges, but a person can get through. Unfortunately, a camera won't see much.

I would like to use the IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED for it's great low-light capability, but I'm afraid the close-focus distance is too far to be useful in many areas. I was thinking of substituting the IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE for short-range areas instead, but I'm open to any turret/eyeball camera(s) under $250US per unit.

Lastly, the front and side doors will have doorbell cameras (not shown on diagram), possibly the AD410. I'd like at least one of the cameras to be able to see packages on the front porch - if that means another camera on the front porch, that's ok.

If I've missed any other information that could be useful, please let me know.

Thank you in advance for all your suggestions! A newbie like me can't be grateful enough for the wisdom you share!

 

[The Automation Guy]

First, you need to come up with a defined set of goals that you want for this system. Right now this system is large enough that it seems you want to take CCTV capture very seriously. However it is also falling short of "complete" coverage where you always have a camera covering a camera to prevent dead spots and blind spots where a perp can access a camera without being seen on another camera. There is no right or wrong answer to this question either. It all depends on your unique setting, situation, and desire. Letting us know what your overall goal is will help us determine if this system will meet your goal or not.

Second, you have to know and understand the DORI values of any camera you are considering using. These are the expected distances that you'll be able to "detect" a subject (know that someone/something is out there, but not make out what they are doing), "observe" a subject (able to see and know what a subject is doing), "recognize" (able to correctly identify a subject that is already familiar to you) and "identify" (able to correctly identify a subject that is not familiar to you). Obviously most of us pay attention to the "identify" distances because we expect our cameras to capture clear enough footage to be able to provide police with enough evidence to arrest and charge a person based on our footage alone. The Identify specs for that camera is about 30-35'. Although your drawings look to be drawn to scale, there is no scale provided so it is impossible for us to determine if cameras mounted in those positions are going to be effective or not. Also, we don't know the heights that you plan on installing these cameras at.

Third, right now I would say you have decent (but not complete) coverage of the house and garage. However there doesn't seem to be any coverage for the driveway - especially at farther distances. You may not want/need that but it is certainly something to consider.

Lastly, it would help to have a satellite view of your location showing the entire property. Knowing where the driveway is, where the trees are, etc will help us in determining if camera placements are correct or not.

EDIT - I do have some specific questions on some cameras as well:
- What is the purpose/goal of camera #5
- Is the main purpose of camera #3 (in opt 1&2) to cover the mandoor? Do you expect it to provide coverage down the side of the house as well?

 

[lostinpangea]

First, you need to come up with a defined set of goals that you want for this system. Right now this system is large enough that it seems you want to take CCTV capture very seriously. However it is also falling short of "complete" coverage where you always have a camera covering a camera to prevent dead spots and blind spots where a perp can access a camera without being seen on another camera. There is no right or wrong answer to this question either. It all depends on your unique setting, situation, and desire. Letting us know what your overall goal is will help us determine if this system will meet your goal or not.

Second, you have to know and understand the DORI values of any camera you are considering using. These are the expected distances that you'll be able to "detect" a subject (know that someone/something is out there, but not make out what they are doing), "observe" a subject (able to see and know what a subject is doing), "recognize" (able to correctly identify a subject that is already familiar to you) and "identify" (able to correctly identify a subject that is not familiar to you). Obviously most of us pay attention to the "identify" distances because we expect our cameras to capture clear enough footage to be able to provide police with enough evidence to arrest and charge a person based on our footage alone. The Identify specs for that camera is about 30-35'. Although your drawings look to be drawn to scale, there is no scale provided so it is impossible for us to determine if cameras mounted in those positions are going to be effective or not. Also, we don't know the heights that you plan on installing these cameras at.

Third, right now I would say you have decent (but not complete) coverage of the house and garage. However there doesn't seem to be any coverage for the driveway - especially at farther distances. You may not want/need that but it is certainly something to consider.

Lastly, it would help to have a satellite view of your location showing the entire property. Knowing where the driveway is, where the trees are, etc will help us in determining if camera placements are correct or not.

EDIT - I do have some specific questions on some cameras as well:

• What is the purpose/goal of camera #5
• Is the main purpose of camera #3 (in opt 1&2) to cover the mandoor? Do you expect it to provide coverage down the side of the house as well?

Thanks for the response and insightful questions - and tolerance to my ignorance.

I managed to get a poor quality satellite pic from Google Earth - sorry it's not better, but the best I could get. The yellow outline is of the property. The red outline is the garage.

Goals:

• Be able identify perps as they approach all external entry points
• Watch perps as they are on the property (do not need to ID unless they get close to an entrance)
• Keep an eye on the kids as they play in the backyard and driveway
• Do not need perfect coverage, but willing to make optimizations, changes, and additions to do the "smart" thing
• We are renovating right now, so I'd like to get this "right" at this time rather than have to fix it later

I have looked at the DORI distances for the cameras considered - hence, their choice (and for low light). I'll tweak the lens focal lengths as needed. Cameras are imagined to be no more than 20' from any entrance. I'd like to be able to ID someone at any entrance and recognize them anywhere (or close to it) on the property. I believe the 5442 would provide the best close focus distance (<5'), but might not quite have the needed range (I=20'). I'm guessing the 5849 close-focuses too far in most locations (~17') but has better range (I>30').

As for scale, there are internal dimensions on the drawings, but they might not be sufficient. They are more precise than the following estimates, but these approximate numbers will probably be good enough:

• Property: 50'x170'
• House width: 40'
• House to street: 35'
• Driveway length: 120'
• Garage: 20'x25'
• Behind garage: 30'

Coverage for the driveway was hoped to be provided by cameras 6, 3, and 10 in Option 3. In option 1, by cameras 6, 3, and 2 (but I don't think it's enough). In Option 2, cameras 9 and 1 provide driveway coverage (but definitely not enough).

The purpose to camera 5 is to look down the side of the house where there is a window to the basement, or to catch people sneaking into the backyard from the "wrong" side of the house. But there are so many bushes there, I'm not sure it will be useful. A person can squeeze through, though.

The purpose for camera 3 in Option 1 is to see people at the side door (mud room), and also to provide coverage looking forward down the driveway. This door might even become the main entry door for family use. I'll probably put a doorbell camera there, too. There is also a large window to the mudroom area that would be easy to shatter and break into.

Thank you!

 

[Webfont]

IPVM Designer / Calculator

Using Google Maps, layout and design cameras, choosing from 10,000+ models, delivering FoV and image quality previews plus export to PDF, Powerpoint and more

calculator.ipvm.com

This is my favorite tool; allows to validate your setup with the cams you think you need, and the pixel per foot numbers for the angles and distances you require.

 

[wittaj]

IPVM Designer / Calculator

Using Google Maps, layout and design cameras, choosing from 10,000+ models, delivering FoV and image quality previews plus export to PDF, Powerpoint and more

calculator.ipvm.com

This is my favorite tool; allows to validate your setup with the cams you think you need, and the pixel per foot numbers for the angles and distances you require.

Have you tried this recently- they changed the ability to use it and is time based and locks you out really quick. Like even moving quickly by the time you zoom into your area and add a camera, it will lock you out unless you are a member.

IPVM Releases Phone Version of Calculator

Thanks to everyone who uses and recommends the IPVM calculator! We have a new version that works on phones - no app install, just we optimized it with a responsive design for phones. Like the 'desktop' version, it is free for up to 4 cameras, with the same functionalities. If anyone has any...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Webfont]

You're right - I just tried their free version and it's almost useless now. It used to have a 1-2 cam limit before, not a 1min time limit.
Couple years ago I got their 20$/mo plan promo, which I only use for 2-3 months at a time when I need to use the tool when I'm thinking of adding a camera.
Maybe OP can contact them and ask if they still offer that for occasional home users.

 

[lostinpangea]

@Webfont
@wittaj
@The Automation Guy

I did manage to find a new app that provides a trial for up to 5 cameras - not sure if it's well-known around here or not: IP Video System Design Tool - Video Surveillance Design Apps | JVSG I've spent a lot of time trying to figure this out - hence the delayed response - sorry!

Attached are two diagrams for the front and back of the house. I think I've got most of it figured out, although it may be overkill. My main concern is still the poor short-focus distance of the IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED in the front. I'd like them to capture activity around windows that are very close to the cameras and also to the front porch (which is far enough away). The 5442's only give me an extra couple of feet of closer focus and I'd lose the ID recognition at the porch (which might be covered well enough by the doorbell cam AD410).

Please see the attached diagrams. Not shown: 1 camera on the back right side of the house, pointing towards the front, a package camera in the porch, a doorbell cam on the front porch, and a doorbell cam pointing left from the side door.

Note: Pink is the "I" range of the camera, and yellow is the "R" range. The shape of coverage changes depending on target distance. In most cases, I have truncated the "R" distance to the expected position of a target. Cameras to be mounted about 10' high at 6' tall targets.

Insightful comments very much appreciated!

 

[mat200]

Hello,

I'm moving into a new-to-me home and would really appreciate the hive-mind recommendations for camera placements. I'm attaching 3 diagrams including recommendations from installer #1, installer #2, and my own ideas.

The house is located on a quiet street and lighting is fairly poor, but existent. There is a long (approx 120 ft) single driveway on the left side of the house leading to a detached garage. There is approximately 30' of property extending past the back of the detached garage. At the front of the house, there are 4 cedar trees about 15' high - one at each front corner of the house, and one at each side of the front porch. All are close in tight to the house, and could block camera views. I plan to prune them back a bit, but they need to be taken into account. The right side of the house is difficult to access due to hedges, but a person can get through. Unfortunately, a camera won't see much.

I would like to use the IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED for it's great low-light capability, but I'm afraid the close-focus distance is too far to be useful in many areas. I was thinking of substituting the IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE for short-range areas instead, but I'm open to any turret/eyeball camera(s) under $250US per unit.

Lastly, the front and side doors will have doorbell cameras (not shown on diagram), possibly the AD410. I'd like at least one of the cameras to be able to see packages on the front porch - if that means another camera on the front porch, that's ok.

If I've missed any other information that could be useful, please let me know.

Thank you in advance for all your suggestions! A newbie like me can't be grateful enough for the wisdom you share!

Welcome @lostinpangea

Before jumping in and having the lines run .. I would pick up one good varifocal IP PoE camera and a length of cat5e/6 cable and a small PoE switch and start testing the possible locations to confirm the view before making any runs.

Often what we imagine, is off a bit ..

Also I really like a mini-dome wedge camera at eye level by the front door, and another camera covering any package drop area.

 

[Flintstone61]

Here are his 3 .pdf's for those who dont want to download files.

 

[Sammyf]

I would also consider adding a camera in front of the porch, so anyone coming down from the stairs would be recorded. Or even more than one to cover also the direction to the corners of the house.

 

[mat200]

I would add the following 2 camera positions to the front door area ..

one face level by the front door on the side where the door opens ..

the other pointing in a way so you can also catch the package drop zone ..




note:
".. Cameras to be mounted about 10' high at 6' tall targets."

10 feet high often results in poor angles for subjects closer to the camera's position. Thus why we typically recommend 6-8 feet up as better.

 

[lostinpangea]

Welcome @lostinpangea

Before jumping in and having the lines run .. I would pick up one good varifocal IP PoE camera and a length of cat5e/6 cable and a small PoE switch and start testing the possible locations to confirm the view before making any runs.

Often what we imagine, is off a bit ..

Also I really like a mini-dome wedge camera at eye level by the front door, and another camera covering any package drop area.

Thanks, I did mount a camera on a pole to do some testing at my current house, but unfortunately I don't have the luxury of time to do it for the next one. I'll need to take my best guesses and live the results.

I had a mini-dome wedge planned for the packages on the front porch but hadn't considered one at eye level - I think I'll mount the package cam to handle both - thanks!

 

[lostinpangea]

I would add the following 2 camera positions to the front door area ..

one face level by the front door on the side where the door opens ..

the other pointing in a way so you can also catch the package drop zone ..


View attachment 158604

note:
".. Cameras to be mounted about 10' high at 6' tall targets."

10 feet high often results in poor angles for subjects closer to the camera's position. Thus why we typically recommend 6-8 feet up as better.

Thanks for the suggestions! I do have a doorbell cam planned for where you have one the right-side blue dot, and have a package-cam planned. But I'll relocate it based on the recommendation of "eye-level" near the left blue dot so that it can play double-duty of "face-cam" and "package-cam" - planning to use the 2MP (or maybe the 5MP?) mini-dome wedge.

I was under the impression that 10' height was the optimal balance between avoiding vandalism and getting a good angle. For the cameras pointing to the porch, the porch is 3.5' high so the effective height pointing to the porch would be 6.5' high, but still out of reach from the ground. They'll just be a bit high to cover the windows, but I don't have an option due to trees getting in the way. But I'll reposition the other cameras to 8'.