camera recommendation in addition to color4k-t180

[camarolt1guy]

I want to put a color4k-t180 in the middle of my double driveway with separate cameras on each side of the driveway that will crisscross. Im on a corner lot with a huge amout of traffic and people walking within a few feet of my kids windows. Right now i have a basic box store setup with 16 cameras. Id like to replace my overhead one with a color4k-t180 and the ones on the side with either IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 or IPC-T58IR-ZE-S3 . I know the 58ir wont do as good at night but this spot is always lit up with a flood light. Im also looking for cameras for my alley way but it does get dark there. They crisscross also so i get both sides. Is there a camera that once i focus it to a center spot then it could auto zoom if needed like the color4k can with EPTZ? The front of the house is pretty much the same with a general camera and then ones that crisscross it to cover the yard. I might put another color4k-t180 there if i dont find something else that would work. My last one would be is there any camera that can zoom more than 12mm thats not a PTZ? A PTZ just sticks out way too much where i would need to mount it. Thanks for the help

 

[The Automation Guy]

Just keep in mind that the full time color cameras need a decent amount of ambient light to work. Unless you have some high powered lights around, you will likely not get great results in low/no light situations. This is where the IR cameras excel and are worth having however. It can be very helpful to have a color camera that can provide a color reference, but then use the IR cameras to really provide the "money" shot in these low/no light situations. In other words, you plan of having both types of cameras is solid. However in situations like your alley, I would always choose IR over color when I know the situation is not going to provide a lot of ambient light.

 

[wittaj]

+1 above.

Most do not realize how much light is needed. These sensors are small.

The floodlight may or may not be enough - many floodlights do not have as much dispersion as people think, especially once you speed up shutters to minimize blur. If the subject is within 15 feet, then probably ok, but beyond that, it will probably struggle.

I have 30,000 lumen coming off my house and have to force the cameras into color as the camera sensor says there isn't enough light.

See this comparison of the the 54IR versus 58IR:

Mini-Review - 5842-Z4E-S3 AKA B58IR-Z4E S3 - Replacement to the 5842-Z4E (8MP on the 1/1.8" sensor)

Given the improvements that Dahua has made with the 5442 S3 series and the incredible night performance improvements, time to see if putting 8MP on the same size sensor results in a degradation or improved performance, so compliments of @EMPIRETECANDY we have one to do a side-by-side comparison...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[camarolt1guy]

The alley would definitely get IR cameras. I like the 54IR but the 58IR series can do EPTZ. I'm just not sure if it's more of a marketing gimmick or if it would actually help. Ive seen the 4k180 view with it but I haven't seen it on a 58 series yet. I know it only works from an sd card or the new AI recorders but I can upgrade that too if it's worth it.

If anyone has a 58 series and wants to do a quick EPTZ video I'd be extremely grateful.

 

[steve1225]

EPTZ have some sense for 180 degree cameras - it fixes strange very wide screen ratio (something like 24:9) by adding 3 extra EPTZ images with people/cars below wide image and creating normal 16:9 stream...

But for normal 16:9 cameras this totally don't have any sense... You are losing native resolution to add extra copy cut image inside the stream..

PS. Dahua don't even mention about this feature in spec sheet for 58 series...

 

[camarolt1guy]

That's what I was thinking but i seen somewhere yesterday that the 58's had it. I didn't know if maybe it was just using the zoom capabilities of the camera to track better or what.
Andy posted that the 58 has EPTZ. I'm hoping someone cam post a video of it and not the color4k 180.

EPTZ on the IPC-T54IR-ZE S3 or IPC-T58IR-ZE S3?

IPC-T58IR-ZE S3 or the IPC-T54IR-ZE S3 I'm trying to find good general use ones that work in low light without auto illumination like the color4k's. Do either of these cameras have EPTZ like the color4k? Mainly if it sees something far enough away will it auto zoom and track it until it's...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

Eptz is simply digital zoom. You can do the same to the video after the fact.

It is not a replacement for an actual ptz or correct focal length camera.

I have eptz turned off as it simply is using processor power and storage and I would rather have processing power go towards good video.

And unless you have a capable NVR or want to look at an SD card for recorded video all the time, it is useless. I consider it more a gimmick, but I would rather optical zoom versus digital zoom.

 

[camarolt1guy]

Yeah, that's what was confusing me. It didn't make sense to have it on a non 180 camera with EPTZ unless it could actually use the variable focus zoom range that the 58ir ze has.

My usage case would be like when someone dumps a load of tires in the alley or tree limbs right next to the dumpster. When they come in and they see my cameras, they drive a dumpster down usually with tailgate down. After they dump whatever they put the tailgate up and drive off fast. This is where if it really did optically zoom then I might have a chance at getting a plate number.

If its just digital then that's how I zoom now

 

[wittaj]

Yep it is just digital zoom.

 

[camarolt1guy]

Thanks. 54ir ze for the alley it is. Lol

 

[mat200]

FWIW -

I want to always have color data as well as a good clean image .. so sometimes I need 2 cameras, one for color in low light and one with a good IR image capture.

This way, even if I get a blurry picture from the in low light color camera, I can state it is a "White Car"
and with the B&W IR mode camera .. it is a "Toyota Camry .. years .. "

This is also why often we end up with more cameras than we at first imagined as in some cases one camera is not good enough to get the data / picture we need.

 

[Ri22o]

FWIW -

I want to always have color data as well as a good clean image .. so sometimes I need 2 cameras, one for color in low light and one with a good IR image capture.

This is how I have my driveway configured. A Color4K-X for overview and then 54IR-ZEs at 12mm for better ID.

 

[camarolt1guy]

This is my driveway when all other lights are off except mine. The camera that sees the top of the car is probably 14 feet high. It will get lowered to about 8. There's also another camera that sees the right side of the car but it's too far away for color.

 

[bigredfish]

A good B&W IR image is better than a bad color image

 

[wittaj]

And still images are useless. We need to see motion.

 

[camarolt1guy]

This is my current big box store setup that's getting replaced. This post was more of a do you think a color4k-t 180 would work in the middle with that light. People come out of that alley and walk right next to the red car. It will still have cameras on both sides of it. Either the 54ir or the 58ir or im open to recommendations. Same with the alley and the rest of the house. I have an extreme amount of foot traffic due to 2 stores, a bus stop and its corner lot on a major street. I can't put a fence up so cameras are all i have as a deturance. Heres the front, I know I need to move the one that shows the roof lol. It's been that way for probably 15 years. People will walk right through the yard so getting a good pic of them is pretty easy, even with these cameras

 

[wittaj]

What cameras are in Post #13 - those are pretty poor images and probably have the gain cranked up and shutter slowed way down to let as much light in as possible and the images still look like they are struggling.

I would stay away from any camera that is not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio.

And the 180 will not give you any IDENTIFY at that location, especially around that car.

But if you acknowledge and accept that the 180 is strictly an overview camera and you don't care about motion blur because you want to be able to see what is going on and piece together the path of perps and what not, then it would probably do ok there as you would slow the shutter down.

I would go with the 54IR over the 58IR for the driveway cams.

 

[camarolt1guy]

They are all just basic Samsung cameras from this kit so any upgrade is going to be a huge upgrade for me. Just waiting for the anniversary sale to go live

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[bigredfish]

What cameras are in Post #13 - those are pretty poor images and probably have the gain cranked up and shutter slowed way down to let as much light in as possible and the images still look like they are struggling.

I would stay away from any camera that is not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio.

And the 180 will not give you any IDENTIFY at that location, especially around that car.

But if you acknowledge and accept that the 180 is strictly an overview camera and you don't care about motion blur because you want to be able to see what is going on and piece together the path of perps and what not, then it would probably do ok there as you would slow the shutter down.

I would go with the 54IR over the 58IR for the driveway cams.

Agree with @wittaj . The 180 will be helpful as overview centered, the two 5442's on either side should be focused on facial ID at the driveway

 

[wittaj]

Yeah these will be improvements LOL!

Like in my case, I have fixed cams for IDENTIFY at key locations and pinch points, but use the 180 as a nice overview. At night on default/auto it can let me see a lot further than a camera set up to minimize blur. I just know that I will get blur with the 180, but it allows me to hear something and then be able to see what is going on 4 or 5 houses down the street.