Camera Recommendations

[wittaj]

Hi, nice thread, have been doing some research myself and am quite interested in the strobe light effect as an active deterrent. My theory is an opportunist would walk away if they believe they've been detected and set off any silent alarm. I would much rather prevent the crime occurring in the first place rather than trying to recover stolen goods using an identity. That said - getting some identification would be desirable.

Hence I am quite interested in IPC-T5541H-AS-PV.

But I have read the IPC-T5442 range have superior video with colour at night. Is there such a thing as a IPC-T5442 that supports flashing lights on detection? Maybe the IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED supports this? Although my understanding is IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED doesn't have IR and requires the LED in low light (despite the spec sheet), whereas IPC-T5541H-AS-PV does have IR. (not exactly sure what AS or PV stands for).

I need to watch a pinch point side gate at range of about 15 feet in low light. Would the IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 3.6mm 2MP be suitable? Or would I be better off with the 5MP model?

Thanks, I appreciate the help you are all providing.

If you want active deterrence, your best bet is to go with the 2MP IPC-T5241H-AS-PV that will blink the white light. This is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio and will perform comparably to any similar 2MP fixed lens camera by Dahua. I have two of them. I have some of the other active deterrence cams as well, and would opt for the 2MP in every instance except for indoor, one could go with the IPC-HDW3449HP-AS-PV that has the red/blue lights that will bounce off the walls and be much more impressive than outside. Outside the red/blue light is more gimmicky than anything else. Nobody will see it unless they are looking at the camera. And the distance isn't very far due to not being an ideal MP/sensor ratio.

You can make it siren or say "You are under surveillance" or add your own audio.

The video quality at night is comparable to any similar camera on same sensor and lens size. The biggest problem is people buy this camera expecting to IDENTIFY at 60 feet and no 2.8mm or 3.6mm will do that. But if you are under 15 feet it will be ok.

I will warn you the lights are piddly and will only be seen in complete darkness or if the perp looks directly at it. We have seen motion activated lights are not a deterrent.

Watch this video someone posted and how the floodlight comes on and they don't even flinch. But then the audio comes on and they don't know which way to run LOL.

https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/whatsapp-video-2020-07-28-at-7-23-08-pm-mp4.73970/

Either keep the lights on all night or not at all to ensure the best chance of capture.

 

[xomiki]

Thanks wittaj, I had started looking into IPC-HDW3449HP-AS-PV as well, but can only find the 8MP version for sale.

I will warn you the lights are piddly and will only be seen in complete darkness or if the perp looks directly at it. We have seen motion activated lights are not a deterrent.

I can understand motion lights not being a big deterrent, they are common enough to just ignore. If anything they just help the thief see what they're stealing. But I thought the flashing lights might draw attention to the existence of the camera and make it more obvious something has been 'tripped'. i.e regular motion lights are generally for assistance and not necessarily security, whereas flashing lights are more indicative of an alarm.

I planned on using sound as well but something a bit more subtle/quiet - a false alarm or two wouldn't be very acceptable otherwise. Really depends on the reliability. Does the alarm simply run on a timer and then shut off?

I think 2MP IPC-T5241H-AS-PV is probably my best bet for deterrence on the sides of the house, backed up by some IPC-T5442 style cameras in other locations.

 

[wittaj]

If you have zero light then maybe, but any light at all and they will not see the flashing light unless they look up at the camera.

The alarm from the camera is a .wav file and you simply tell it how many times to play.

 

[mephisto_uk]

I'm thinking about getting a proper loud siren because it will annoy the hell out of them, including the neighbours, but someone will soon put their head out of the window and do something. I heard many time, of you lit the place, you are just making the thief live easier to see what they are doing.

No idea if I need to get power to siren or if I can get a POE type and manage it via home assistant or the camera itself.

 

[The Automation Guy]

Most of these camera have an "alarm" output which is basically a GPIO output. This certainly can be used to trigger some sort of siren or strobe light. Depending on the power draw of those items, you might need to integrate a relay and have a separate power supply for those items. I believe the alarm outputs 12v at a max 300mA.

 

[mephisto_uk]

Most of these camera have an "alarm" output which is basically a GPIO output. This certainly can be used to trigger some sort of siren or strobe light. Depending on the power draw of those items, you might need to integrate a relay and have a separate power supply for those items. I believe the alarm outputs 12v at a max 300mA.

I wonder how loud a 12v 300mA would be, I'll try to find something on aliexpress

 

[mephisto_uk]

I found some stuff on aliexpress most are 12v 1200mA+, so way out of range. Defo would need a 12v power supply. very few 240v models, which means another power supply in the middle :/

 

[wittaj]

I found some stuff on aliexpress most are 12v 1200mA+, so way out of range. Defo would need a 12v power supply. very few 240v models, which means another power supply in the middle :/

unless you have a lot of background noise, while the camera speaker isn't super loud, it is loud enough to get their attention and not wake the neighbors. Heck I do not even hear it on the otherside of the wall and I wouldn't say my walls are well insulated LOL.

But if you want to hear the speaker going off from inside and wake up your neighbors, then yeah you will need an external with power.

 

[CanCuba]

I found some stuff on aliexpress most are 12v 1200mA+, so way out of range. Defo would need a 12v power supply. very few 240v models, which means another power supply in the middle :/

I've been using these to power IR illuminators off of the same cable as a camera with great success.

https://www.amazon.com/Splitter-Compliant-Surveillance-5-5x2-1mm-PS5712TG/dp/B08HS4NT13/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=poe%2Bsplitter&qid=1674665221&sr=8-3&th=1

You'll need a y-splitter. As long as the camera and siren/illuminator/etc don't draw more than 2A (24W) @ 12v between them, you would be fine:

https://www.amazon.com/USHANLIN-Adapter-Splitter-Security-Cameras/dp/B07DY7QJ47/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=29U8H8BT7W75X&keywords=12v+dc+barrel+y+splitter&qid=1674665336&sprefix=dc+barrel+y+%2Caps%2C310&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyMEdCOTFSNFREM0xQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzM2NTc4M0pTSFZQTzJNRVdLSiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTI5NjgzVFE5VU9PVzlRWU44JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

[mephisto_uk]

unless you have a lot of background noise, while the camera speaker isn't super loud, it is loud enough to get their attention and not wake the neighbors. Heck I do not even hear it on the otherside of the wall and I wouldn't say my walls are well insulated LOL.

But if you want to hear the speaker going off from inside and wake up your neighbors, then yeah you will need an external with power.

I guess the camera speaker and a camera that has "siren" built in would be considerably different? Let's say comparing the IPC-T5241H-AS-PV that I believe has active deterrence (whatever that actually means) so it would be different from a regular speaker camera, or is it all just the same?

I've been using these to power IR illuminators off of the same cable as a camera with great success.

https://www.amazon.com/Splitter-Compliant-Surveillance-5-5x2-1mm-PS5712TG/dp/B08HS4NT13/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=poe%2Bsplitter&qid=1674665221&sr=8-3&th=1

You'll need a y-splitter. As long as the camera and siren/illuminator/etc don't draw more than 2A (24W) @ 12v between them, you would be fine:

https://www.amazon.com/USHANLIN-Adapter-Splitter-Security-Cameras/dp/B07DY7QJ47/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=29U8H8BT7W75X&keywords=12v+dc+barrel+y+splitter&qid=1674665336&sprefix=dc+barrel+y+%2Caps%2C310&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyMEdCOTFSNFREM0xQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzM2NTc4M0pTSFZQTzJNRVdLSiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTI5NjgzVFE5VU9PVzlRWU44JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

very interesting adapter, but regular 802.3af is 15W, and AT is 30W, so I guess you are talking 24W when using 802.3at?

 

[CanCuba]

I guess the camera speaker and a camera that has "siren" built in would be considerably different? Let's say comparing the IPC-T5241H-AS-PV that I believe has active deterrence (whatever that actually means) so it would be different from a regular speaker camera, or is it all just the same?



very interesting adapter, but regular 802.3af is 15W, and AT is 30W, so I guess you are talking 24W when using 802.3at?

I can't speak to different camera models. I have a Color4K/X with a speaker. It's not super loud but different audio recordings can be uploaded to it.

Yes, my NVR has 802.3at ports @ 25.5W max output. Just over 2 amps.

 

[wittaj]

I guess the camera speaker and a camera that has "siren" built in would be considerably different? Let's say comparing the IPC-T5241H-AS-PV that I believe has active deterrence (whatever that actually means) so it would be different from a regular speaker camera, or is it all just the same?

Active deterrence cameras simply mean it has a light that can either come on, flash, or the TIOC series that has red/blue flashing lights when the camera is triggered.

Non active deterrence cameras with a speaker are loaded with the same audio files as an active deterrence camera, but they don't provide the flashing light or light that comes on with motion, but can play the audio file or you upload your own.

 

[mephisto_uk]

Ah, so that is more a gimmick than a useful feature. Noise is that would put people off, flashing lights would not help much, perhaps just making evident where the noise is coming from making it an easier target.

I'm waiting for Andy to come back and then send me a couple of cameras to start testing.

 

[mephisto_uk]

I'm actually thinking if it is better to get the video footage processed in some AI tech in Blue Iris or Frigate to identify something and then trigger a siren that is not related/connected to the camera. Maybe using home assistant and controlling a zigbee relay?

 

[wittaj]

Yep, I think I mentioned that it was gimmicky in one of my other replies LOL.

Now if they look up at the camera it will give you a great shot LOL.

You can certainly go with some AI tech to send a trigger to a siren, but that then adds some additional points of failure and maybe delays. if you can do it direct from the camera, it will be faster - maybe by a half or a second or maybe by 8 seconds depending on how much additional processing is going on to get to a siren coming from another platform.

 

[samplenhold]

There have been so many posts here where a cam has caught perps doing their respective crimes and a motion light comes on, but it does nothing to even slow the perp down. They ignore it.

There have been a few videos posted where the 'active deterrence' lights have flashed with varying degrees of success, from totally being ignored, to actually driving off the perp.

There have also been a few videos of perps abandoning their crimes when an audio file has been played through the cam of someone speaking at them. Have yet to see one where it did not stop the perps. Some have played a shot gun racking sound and then a voice saying something along the lines of "I see you asshole, can you outrun a 12 gauge?". There have been other recorded audio sounds that seem to do the trick.

 

[xomiki]

For me I think the flashing lights would provide some deterrence. But even if hard-core criminals ignore it, "innocent" people can be given a quiet warning before setting off the siren that wakes the neighbours. e.g if I'm putting the bins out late and the lights flash - I can stop before passing the next intrusion line. I do think there would some opportunists that get deterred, even if it doesn't stop the career criminal. It probably doesn't make for a good video as they just look like people being a bit extra curious then walking away (exactly what they want it to look like), hence you don't see many examples. Although it likely requires warning them early, before they trespass too far and get too committed to the crime.

 

[wittaj]

For me I think the flashing lights would provide some deterrence. But even if hard-core criminals ignore it, "innocent" people can be given a quiet warning before setting off the siren that wakes the neighbours. e.g if I'm putting the bins out late and the lights flash - I can stop before passing the next intrusion line. I do think there would some opportunists that get deterred, even if it doesn't stop the career criminal. It probably doesn't make for a good video as they just look like people being a bit extra curious then walking away (exactly what they want it to look like), hence you don't see many examples. Although it likely requires warning them early, before they trespass too far and get too committed to the crime.

Like I said, the flashing lights are not bright AT ALL. If you have a completely dark setting, then yeah you may see it, but if there is any light at all, it is not seen unless you are looking right into the camera.

One of mine is the TIOC that flashes blue/red and inside that blue/red is bouncing all off the walls and looks like the police are there, so I thought it would be awesome to be reflecting off the house and house next door when outside, and don't see it at all. If the perp is looking down and the camera is above their peripheral vision, no chance they see it.

 

[Teeling611]

Ok I’m back requesting recommendations on three cameras. All my wiring is done. I have read the cliff notes and everything that wittaj has written And many others. A big thanks for everyone’s input. I originally was going cheap on cameras but after buying a cheap one thats out the window. I get to confused trying to figure out which ones to get. In your opinions what are the best cameras I can get in the price range of about $150-200? Must be Dahua, empire Andy stuff. My understanding is it would be nice to have optical zoom, the largest sensor possible with good night time capabilities. On the front door camera at least a mic would be ok but 2 way would be great. I understand the walkie-talkie concept and wind issues. Don’t need this for the other two cameras. All color would be nice but I don’t have enough light unless the camera can provide it. Three the same or three different makes no matter to me. I’m not being lazy I just get to confused trying to pick one out. If you pick them at least I’ll have you to blame not me thanks.

 

[looney2ns]

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