Cat6 - Here is why not - Change my mind

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by Prinler, Jul 11, 2018.

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  1. Prinler

    Prinler Getting the hang of it

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  2. MixManSC

    MixManSC Pulling my weight

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    Lol.... is it necessary? No. Is it smart? That is the question...

    What about in the future when 8k or whatever insane resolution comes out? I agree that cat 6 is not required for pretty much any current IP camera but future proofing things is not a bad idea. Pulling cables sucks and I'd rather not have to pull new ones later for some reason. Going with thicker 23awg Cat6 also reduceds you electricity costs since there is less power loss. 100w poe is also coming - that will not work very well on cat 5 implementations.

    3 Reasons Why Power over Ethernet Demands CAT 6A Cable

    Are You Ready to Support 100W PoE?
     
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  3. Prinler

    Prinler Getting the hang of it

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    100MP cameras wont need cat6 LOL
     
  4. Prinler

    Prinler Getting the hang of it

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    Ok this made me laugh. Please take that sales ad with a grain of salt.
    My 2MP Dahua cameras take 10.5W MAX with IR's on. That amount of power is so minute you would have to have cables hundreds of feet long for you to have issues.
    So 12V + or - 25%!!!!! So on a 100Ft pull you will drop approx. 4.5% giving you a total voltage of 11.46V! You can pull upto 500+ feet of cat5e 24awg before you will be out of spec.
    Cat5e is 24 awg and cat6 is only 23! If you do all the math, it only adds like 50 more feet!

    Belden Cat6 $170+ per 1000'
    Cat5e $100 per 1000'

    Edit: The new Dahua -ZE Cameras can go 1000' on cat5e!
     
  5. SkyLake

    SkyLake Getting the hang of it

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    Who cares? I use cat6a because i can... :winktongue::lol:
     
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  6. MixManSC

    MixManSC Pulling my weight

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    What about a 100MP with PTZ, IR, lens defogger, window wiper? I'm not sure how much better compression tech will get for video either. Phase One already has a 100MP digital camera available. An uncompressed tiff image from that is just over 800MB in size, at JPG 90% it still makes a file over 10MB. Figure 25% for fun though - the image will be pretty awful with that much compression, each frame would then still be over 2MB. So if you have more than a few cameras (we all do right? :)) then you are going to get some wretched frame rates. Granted - that is all future talk. Even though a 100MP image sensor is available, I doubt we would even see one in a run of the mill security camera. 12MP is commonly out though.

    I see it from the perspective of running a sign company. We were already choking a gigabit network with just 6 users pulling large files from the SAN so I recently added a 10GB Brocade switch and 10GB fiber to the desktops. It flies now. I see the same thing in a lot of other scenarios as well with the heavy streaming everyone is doing now and everyone wants higher and higher quality.

    My new 4K Dahua NVR even has its limits (its a 16 channel) if I were to connect 16 4K cameras to it and tried to keep the quality on all up high I'd need to get an enterprise class switch with a beefy fabric to handle to bandwidth needed. Better cable tech is not just about power either....

    A lot of factors come into play like connectors, heat aggregating in cable bundles, distance and speeds, etc. The other bummer with POE is that it is DC power instead of AC. DC is terrible for loss on distance. Hence the reason we used Tesla's AC power system instead of Edison's DC power system for long distance power transmission.

    And no - I do not put a ton of weight into Beldens marketing. They do make top notch cable but its too pricey for me... I get 1000' rolls of Ice Primal Cat6 wholesale for just over $100. I've just learned over the years that science fiction very often becomes science fact and technology moves rapidly. Future proofing is not for everyone but its also not a waste of money either if it makes sense (not going to bother with something nice you will leave at a rented apartment for example).
     
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  7. Prinler

    Prinler Getting the hang of it

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    I posted it mainly so I can learn and teach at the same time.
     
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  8. Prinler

    Prinler Getting the hang of it

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    So apparently I do not understand how POE works. POE switch puts out 48V over the CatX cable and then gets rectified down to the proper voltage thus allowing for even LONGER distances.
     
  9. mat200

    mat200 Known around here

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    FYI - I have used monoprice cat5e and cat6 cable. The price difference for the cat5e/6 cable I use is $20 for 1000'

    Sometimes they have a 15% off, or $20 off $100 deal.

    The newer versions of both the cat5e and cat6 which I typically pick up for use are 23AWG for cat6 and 24 AWG for cat5e. ( some of the older versions of cat6 were 24 AWG.. )

    If I am only getting one box of 1000' typically I like the cat6 one as I will end up using it for other drops besides just IP PoE cameras.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  10. SkyLake

    SkyLake Getting the hang of it

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  11. Prinler

    Prinler Getting the hang of it

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    I get the price thing, thanks for the details, I will check it out.

    I think going cat6 is more of a Min/max thing. If you minimize this and maximize that its better. When people run high octane gas in their Honda, same thing. They think they are getting something better when they are not. If people could run fiber to each camera im sure people would do it.
     
  12. Prinler

    Prinler Getting the hang of it

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  13. TheBest

    TheBest n3wb

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    Your next problem is getting hard drives that can write that fast. Even SSDs are only 500 MB/s. Then your SSDs will be broken very quickly because of their limited write/reads.
     
  14. MixManSC

    MixManSC Pulling my weight

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    SATA SSD's are old school. PCIe based NVMe SSD's far surpassed SATA speeds a few years ago. The Samsung 960 Pro in this workstation I'm using hits around 1588 MB/s write and 2200 MB/s read. The newer ones are pushing up around 2800/3500 and you can RAID them for stupidly fast speeds if you really want to. That being said - NVMe is not for everyone and in typical regular Windows and MAC desktop usage the difference between an NVMe and a SATA SSD are hardly noticeable. I work with editing massive graphics (bus ad wraps, etc) so it helps a good bit having a working file on incredibly fast storage. Newer SAN's and servers are also rapidly moving to RAID arrays of SSD's too which are hitting truly incredible speeds of 120 GB/s. :wow:
     
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