Cheap indoor PT camera for temporary install?

[jec6613]

Long story short, my in-laws are going to leave their home unattended for a bit over a month during this upcoming winter, and we'd like to be able to keep an eye on the place. Exterior security is not a concern, but freezing pipes, random leaks, broken windows, etc, are. I'm putting some sensors up there to alarm immediately for most things (temperature/leaks), but we want a few inexpensive indoor cameras on top of those - nothing to set the world on fire, just enough to know if I need to drive up there to handle something. These will get shelved once they're back and maybe brought out every year or two.

Their place links to mine via site to site VPN, so remote access is fully handled already, and they'll use a spare Blue Iris license I have that expires after their return, on a NUC, basically a very cut down version of what I have setup at my home.

The requirements are pretty simple:

• At least a good 480p, 720p preferred
• Works well with Blue Iris
• No cloud dependency, the cameras will not have internet access at all
• WiFi Capable with external power brick (don't yell at me about this one, the WiFi is overkill and more than capable of handling it in a full house, let alone a vacant one)
• Pan/Tilt capability, Zoom not required
• Not a Chinese based company

I'd prefer to keep it around $30-$50/camera for 3-4 cameras. Any suggestions?

 

[wittaj]

This is a fan favorite on this site (Chinese based is probable LOL):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0145OQXCK/ref=twister_B07GXDLJP9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&tag=ipctk-20

 

[Flintstone61]

There all chinese arent they?

 

[jec6613]

This is a fan favorite on this site (Chinese based is probable LOL):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0145OQXCK/ref=twister_B07GXDLJP9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&tag=ipctk-20

Haha, yes, yes they are, they're a rebadged Dahua using firmware written by a state-owned company. If it had US/SK/JP/etc based firmware, I'd actually be quite happy with the camera even though it's at the upper end of my price range.

 

[jec6613]

There all chinese arent they?

Not all, but virtually everything on Amazon. TRENDnet and Wyze are US-based, and Axis is Swedish/Japanese, Panasonic is Japanese, etc. It's certainly a fraction of what it was 10 years ago though.

 

[wittaj]

Then buy a Wyze and call it done (although I don't know how easily it meets your other requirements LOL)

https://www.amazon.com/Indoor-Camera-Vision-Compatible-Assistant/dp/B09DRCFF81

 

[CaptainCrunch]

Not all, but virtually everything on Amazon. TRENDnet and Wyze are US-based, and Axis is Swedish/Japanese, Panasonic is Japanese, etc. It's certainly a fraction of what it was 10 years ago though.

If you were closer, I'd give you a couple of Wyze cameras. But they are too cheap to make shipping them worthwhile.

If the cameras aren't going to be hooked up to the internet, how important is the non-chinese firmware requirement?

 

[TonyR]

Haha, yes, yes they are, they're a rebadged Dahua using firmware written by a state-owned company.

The cam @wittaj linked meets ALL your requirements except where it's made. If it will have no direct Internet access (as you said) what difference does it make if Dahua is the OEM?

FWIW, I have had 3 of the 841's running on Wi-Fi in my house for 4 years now with no issues, connected to Blue iris via a dedication 2.4GHz AP; they perform non-critical jobs as pet cams.

If it had US/SK/JP/etc based firmware, I'd actually be quite happy with the camera even though it's at the upper end of my price range.

Are serious? You said "I'd prefer to keep it around $30-$50/camera for 3-4 cameras"....hopefully that's EACH.

Just what IS your upper limit for ONE cam that meets your criteria to perform the tasks you are asking?

 

[jec6613]

If the cameras aren't going to be hooked up to the internet, how important is the non-chinese firmware requirement?

Unfortunately it's a hard requirement; I fortunately don't need to go whole hog NDAA compliant though.

Wyze don't appear to have BI compatibility (maybe I'm wrong?) I know that I can spend my way out of this situation, and especially already owning the backend it certainly would make more sense to get $150 cameras than to bring a new system into play from the standpoint of time VS money. It's not just the up front setup after all, but running costs also teaching how to use it to people already proficient with BI. Just hoping that a group of enthusiasts may know of other options, as it's been years since I've had to make a purchase.

 

[TonyR]

There's also this ==>> Wireless IP Cam with PTZ replacement recommendations
It's TP-LINK C-210 P/T wireless for under $30, not cloud-based, streams RTSP and audio to Blue Iris.

 

[jec6613]

The cam @wittaj linked meets ALL your requirements except where it's made. If it will have no direct Internet access (as you said) what difference does it make if Dahua is the OEM?

FWIW, I have had 3 of the 841's running on Wi-Fi in my house for 4 years now with no issues, connected to Blue iris via a dedication 2.4GHz AP; they perform non-critical jobs as pet cams.


Are serious? You said "I'd prefer to keep it around $30-$50/camera for 3-4 cameras"....hopefully that's EACH.

Just what IS your upper limit for ONE cam that meets your criteria to perform the tasks you are asking?

Yes that's each, (hence the /camera), that's actually what I paid last time I needed one, also as a pet cam. I'm actually quite pleased with wifi camera performance on shared APs, but we're also talking about enterprise-class equipment with multiple APs.

Firmware manufacture is a compliance issue. It's also cybersecurity also, but since they'll be on their own VLAN with firewall rules only allowing specific ports in a stateful manner to the NVR, I'm less concerned about that.

I'd say the upper limit is somewhere above $200 if I had to. Basically, if it costs less to just use Arlo, that's the limit.

 

[concord]

TonyR mentioned the TP_Link Tapo cams in the forum...

Foscam X1 and C1 replacements?

I currently use a bunch of Foscam C1 and X1 for indoor, which are the old 'baby monitor' cameras with 2 way audio. What are the modern versions of these that work with BI? I'd like to keep to a similar style and not move to the larger PTZ indoor. Thank you. This is what I do not want.

ipcamtalk.com

Oops missed the PT portion, looks like they have PT cams too, but someone complained in the review that it is slow moving using BI....

https://www.amazon.com/indoor-dog-wifi-cameras-tapo/dp/B09Y8C185M/ref=psdc_14248481_t2_B0BTTZQC79?th=1

Check out this Amazon review of TP-Link Tapo 2K Pan/Tilt Security Camera for Baby Monitor, Dog Camera w/ Motion Detection, Motion Tracking, 2-Way Audio, Night Vision, Cloud/Local Storage, Works w/ Alexa & Google Home, 2-Pack(C210P2)

Not as good as the C110 IMO, I would return these if it weren't a PITA

www.amazon.com

Package of four cams:

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Tapo-Security-Detection-C110P4/dp/B0BTTZQC79/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3T3MRDM2JM1HE&keywords=tp_link%2Btapo&qid=1694028382&sprefix=tp_link%2Btapo%2Caps%2C124&sr=8-7&th=1

 

[wittaj]

You do realize the whole NDAA compliant thing is a joke right?

Instead of the government addressing the real issue (cameras connected to the internet that can get hacked), they have now created a false sense of security with companies taking advantage of NDAA compliant cameras to unsuspecting customers...

It sounds like you know to not let them touch the internet, so unless your in-laws are the Biden's and the White House is considered a government facility, it is no big deal LOL....

NDAA only applies to government installs.

So instead of buying sub $50 cams that will meet your needs, you would rather spend $200 just to avoid being made in China? Do you think EVERY component of that camera is made in the US? Maybe, but I doubt it.

So most of us here will purchase what is the best bang for the buck since we isolate the cameras anyway....



Even high end NDAA compliant Axis got hacked last year.

Block the cams from the internet and go with the best bang for the buck and that will be Dahua and Hik and not 5 times the cost axis lol.

Did Axis got Hacked?

NDAA compliant Verkada was hacked and 150,000 cameras in private companies, along with prisons and public school systems were part of it, which would be government funded..



It is why we recommend DO NOT LET YOUR CAMERAS OR NVR TOUCH THE INTERNET. You isolate them via VLAN or dual NIC.

Do not set the system up with P2P or UPnP or scan some QR code or they will be hacked.

I repeat, do not let your cameras touch the internet and you are fine.

In reality, since police departments have partnered with Ring to gain access to Ring video that is cloud based under the name of public safety, there is probably a much more risk of the enemy/hacker gaining access to stuff than thru the Dahua and Hikvision products that can be isolated from the internet as Ring will not work without an internet connection....

Or any manufacturer that has cloud based services that require that internet connection or their device doesn't work.

 

[wittaj]

TonyR mentioned the TP_Link Tapo cams in the forum...

Foscam X1 and C1 replacements?

I currently use a bunch of Foscam C1 and X1 for indoor, which are the old 'baby monitor' cameras with 2 way audio. What are the modern versions of these that work with BI? I'd like to keep to a similar style and not move to the larger PTZ indoor. Thank you. This is what I do not want.

ipcamtalk.com

Package of four cams:

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Tapo-Security-Detection-C110P4/dp/B0BTTZQC79/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3T3MRDM2JM1HE&keywords=tp_link%2Btapo&qid=1694028382&sprefix=tp_link%2Btapo%2Caps%2C124&sr=8-7&th=1

Except that doesn't meet his requirement of not being Chinese based!

 

[Mike A.]

Unfortunately it's a hard requirement; I fortunately don't need to go whole hog NDAA compliant though.

Wyze don't appear to have BI compatibility (maybe I'm wrong?)

You can make various versions work (mostly) with BI using various RTSP hacks but they still aren't all that great. I have several that I got cheap. If indoor then maybe OK but even there with good light things in motion are a problem. Also, depending on how you do things, frequent disconnects and reconnects.

Oh, and the company may be US-based but the products definitely are Chinese-manufacture.

 

[TonyR]

TonyR mentioned the TP_Link Tapo cams in the forum...

Foscam X1 and C1 replacements?

I currently use a bunch of Foscam C1 and X1 for indoor, which are the old 'baby monitor' cameras with 2 way audio. What are the modern versions of these that work with BI? I'd like to keep to a similar style and not move to the larger PTZ indoor. Thank you. This is what I do not want.

ipcamtalk.com

Oops missed the PT portion, looks like they have PT cams too, but someone complained in the review that it is slow moving using BI....

https://www.amazon.com/indoor-dog-wifi-cameras-tapo/dp/B09Y8C185M/ref=psdc_14248481_t2_B0BTTZQC79?th=1

Check out this Amazon review of TP-Link Tapo 2K Pan/Tilt Security Camera for Baby Monitor, Dog Camera w/ Motion Detection, Motion Tracking, 2-Way Audio, Night Vision, Cloud/Local Storage, Works w/ Alexa & Google Home, 2-Pack(C210P2)

Not as good as the C110 IMO, I would return these if it weren't a PITA

www.amazon.com

Package of four cams:

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Tapo-Security-Detection-C110P4/dp/B0BTTZQC79/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3T3MRDM2JM1HE&keywords=tp_link%2Btapo&qid=1694028382&sprefix=tp_link%2Btapo%2Caps%2C124&sr=8-7&th=1

I read that ONE amazon review regarding the P/T version of the Tapo camera, the C-210 being slow to P/T with Blue Iris and I gotta say it.....I personally put no (that's zero, zip, zilch, nada) faith in any Amazon reviews especially when it come to a negative...there are people on amazon that can't find their own butt with both hands or complain when they receive a red can opener when the only once pictured is....red.

On top of that, we're not talking about a $50 or $40 cam...it's a $23 Wi-Fi cam, the C-110 or a $28 Pan/Tilt C-210 that streams RTSP to VLC or Blue Iris with no cloud! Sure you set it up initially with an app and it has no webGUI but AGAIN..it's an under $30 cam!

But it's a free country, one can certainly pass it up and find another cam that checks all the right boxes for you. I just ask that you share it with us so we ALL can wear a smile!

 

[jec6613]

Oh, and the company may be US-based but the products definitely are Chinese-manufacture.

Chinese manufacture is OK so long as they're not Chinese OEM (e.g. a re-badge). The literal requirement is no OEM from PRC state-owned entities, which when it comes to surveillance cameras is, of course, all of them out of the PRC.

The physical hardware is all global for virtually every camera anyway. An image sensor made in France, a processor made in Taiwan, sub-components made in Japan, PCB made in Ireland, PCB assembled in India, final assembly in China, mounting hardware made in the USA and packaging made in Vietnam. That sort of thing.

 

[jec6613]

You do realize the whole NDAA compliant thing is a joke right?
...

Very nice long post. Also irrelevant to the discussion. I have a checkbox I need to comply with, it's not a preference.

For anybody referencing this thread in the future (yes I've come across far too many posts where nobody does any follow-up and so I'll be a good internet citizen):

The NDAA compliant sticker means that the supply chain is secure and has enough demand to still exist; it does not remove the need for proper cybersecurity and was never designed to. It's like how if you're wearing eye protection, you still need to wear hearing protection when working around heavy machinery - they guard against two different threats.

 

[Mike A.]

I think they basically are. Wyze mostly just puts its name on things. They have involvement on the software/firmware side but buy most hardware from Chinese providers like Xaiomi.

 

[wittaj]

Very nice long post. Also irrelevant to the discussion. I have a checkbox I need to comply with, it's not a preference.

For anybody referencing this thread in the future (yes I've come across far too many posts where nobody does any follow-up and so I'll be a good internet citizen):

The NDAA compliant sticker means that the supply chain is secure and has enough demand to still exist; it does not remove the need for proper cybersecurity and was never designed to. It's like how if you're wearing eye protection, you still need to wear hearing protection when working around heavy machinery - they guard against two different threats.

Actually I do think it is a relevant post to the discussion, especially for anybody referencing this thread in the future like the NOOB that is just a typical homeowner like most of us and comes here thinking they need NDAA compliant cameras because some internet article scared them into thinking Chinese made cameras are bad and stumbles across this thread - It is only relevant if they are installing in a government facility.

It would be a disservice of this forum to simply leave this thread hanging with a silent endorsement that everyone needs to have a checkbox for non-Chinese cameras, because that is simply not the case for most people.

And your refusal to provide reasoning why you are hung up on this (which is fine maybe you are a high ranking elected official or something and would be bad show to buy something you can't use in your working world) shouldn't be used to persuade a future reviewer of this thread to buy some more expensive NDAA compliant camera or non-Chinese camera that is not as good as a cheaper camera.

It is well documented here what the issues and concerns are with NDAA and why it doesn't apply to most of us here, and we provide this information so that the budget conscious homeowner coming to this site can be provided with the information to make the best decision for their use case. For many when they see that NDAA compliant cameras cost a lot more and are not as good, the decision is easy LOL. And others see why the cheaper cams they have are not as good as other cams and up their budget to get better cams and that is a good thing as well.

You can chose to have a hang up about Chinese cams if you want and that is fine, but like it or not, we live in a society where darn near everything has something made in China in it.