Church project ~ 5-25 camera's

[JHMillerSr]

I support my church and looking in to moving from my 2 Unifi cam's and going with a NVR set up. I use BI for home use, so I figure why not for church. To start, probably looking at 5 outdoor camera's and then inside (20+) next year or so. That being said, have any of you either install a set up like this yourselves or know BI can truly handle 20-30 camera's? What PC would you build? example: i7-(10-12th gen) or AMD / 32GB ram / mid-high end graphics card RTX3060,3070 / SSD with (2)-8TB purple drives. Would a server work better in this situation(although, dont have $5k+ to spend) I have a Synology NAS onsite now for backup. Looking for live view (I need to learn more on UI3, for Pastors & Office TV's for daytime parking lot, front door live view streams, then remotely for Pastor and several of us (if need be).)
my current experience at home: HP mini pc i7-7700 / 16gb ram / SSD w/ 4TB black HD for cams, running Annke NC800, Reolink 811 x2 & 822. Any thoughts/recommendations would be highly appreciated. I've asked on bookface and i'm getting the whole UNV, axis, avigilon $4k-30k set ups.

My image is the church lot. setting up a PtP to garage to add 1-3 camera's there. One looking at the choke point, then main lot and side door. Then on the bottom right side is the other choke point, looking for a great optical zoom camera there. some have suggested a gate, so considering that. 2 on the main entrance. From there, work on the inside. Office, hallways, kids area, elevator doors, tech closet's.

Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Use our device maybe be a good choice. For outdoor cams really need some reliable devices.
Outdoor can get some PTZ Like SD49225XA-HNR, fixed camera use IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E, we use a lot of this Z12E for parking lot.



Indoor use some 4MP like IPC-T5442T-ZE, if prefer 4K, use IPC-T5842T-ZE.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

For BI, @wittaj @sebastiantombs may give you some idea.
For cams, also can refer to this link for the hot models we are selling, will not let you down.
2022 EmpireTech Spring Sales | IP Cam Talk

 

[The Automation Guy]

A modern computer with 16gb of ram running BI should be able to handle 20-30 cameras. I currently have 11 cameras on a older i7-6700 machine and the CPU sits at about 15% when I check it via the mobile app. If I RDP into the machine and have BI opened (both of which increase CPU useage over just running BI as a service) the CPU useage can get upwards of 30%. Theoretically I could more than triple my camera load (to over 30) and still not max out the CPU. Of course that would be a little too close for comfort, but a 10th, 11th, or 12th generation i7 chip should handle it better. Worse case scenario, if the computer gets bogged down, you can always have a second machine running BI and split the camera load between the two devices - perhaps one is running your outdoor cameras and one your indoor cameras.

This is a big project that is going to take careful research and planning. You need to talk to the "powers that be" at the church and get a clear set of goals that they want to accomplish. These goals may be hard to pin down at first because most people have an unrealistic expectation of what CCTV systems can do (ie the "throw a wide angle camera on the four corners of the building and we will have usable identifiable footage for all areas of the campus"). It can't be broad goals like - "capture everything" either. It needs to be specific goals like - we want a general overview of the parking lot (that won't provide detailed enough footage to identify people), but we want tight identifiable coverage of the parking lot entrances and all walkways surrounding the buildings, as well a cameras placed low enough to capture good detailed faces of people entering and exiting the building. Inside spaces are perhaps easier to capture (because the viewing distances are generally shorter), but setting specific goals is even more important because people are going to notice the inside cameras more than the outside cameras and the church needs to have thought about all of this prior to installing a system. So setting specific goals of what they want to capture and be able to explain why hallway X need to have coverage or not have coverage are all important decisions that you should not be making.

 

[JHMillerSr]

A modern computer with 16gb of ram running BI should be able to handle 20-30 cameras. I currently have 11 cameras on a older i7-6700 machine and the CPU sits at about 15% when I check it via the mobile app. If I RDP into the machine and have BI opened (both of which increase CPU useage over just running BI as a service) the CPU useage can get upwards of 30%. Theoretically I could triple my camera load (to 33) and still not max out the CPU. Of course that would be a little too close for comfort, but a 10th, 11th, or 12th generation i7 chip should handle it better. Worse case scenario, if the computer gets bogged down, you can always have a second machine running BI and split the camera load between the two devices - perhaps one is running your outdoor cameras and one your indoor cameras.

This is a big project that is going to take careful research and planning. You need to talk to the "powers that be" at the church and get a clear set of goals that they want to accomplish. These goals may be hard to pin down at first because most people have an unrealistic expectation of what CCTV systems can do (ie the "throw a wide angle camera on the four corners of the building and we will have usable identifiable footage for all areas of the campus"). It can't be broad goals like - "capture everything" either. It needs to be specific goals like - we want a general overview of the parking lot (that won't provide detailed enough footage to identify people), but we want tight identifiable coverage of the parking lot entrances and all walkways surrounding the buildings as well a cameras placed low enough to capture good detailed faces of people entering and exiting the building. Inside spaces are perhaps easier to capture (because the viewing distances are generally shorter), but setting specific goals is even more important because people are going to notice the inside cameras more than the outside cameras and the church needs to have thought about all of this prior to installing a system. So setting specific goals of what they want to capture and be able to explain why hallway X need to have coverage or not have coverage are all important decisions that you should not be making.

Thank you for the reply. Being that I do all the tech support for the chuch, the ‘IT’ guy (I do work as a Network Administrator), but I also know my limitations. Professional low voltage - IP Camera installers ‘dislike IT guys‘. So I’m here learning the best I can from all of you. So I highly appreciate it. Having 4 cam’s at home is different for a set up like this. To answer your statement, the church would just look at me for my recommendation and just do it.
Camera facing the two choke points.
entrances covered and easily see faces (facial recognition)
I saw on one of the pages, a great write up on which camera to look at for 10’, 10-50’, outside, etc @wittaj I believe wrote this.
so grabbing a decent pc, i7-i9 10th gen or newer / 16-32GB ram / e-sata Purple drives for cam’s, I am assuming going to work great. (I dont like to just get by, go a little above and beyond)

 

[The Automation Guy]

Here is just some thought I have after thinking about this for a little while.......

For the parking lot coverage, here is what I think I would do. First, have cameras mounted on the building with the appropriate focal lengths to provide an overview of the lot. There should be enough cameras that it covers the entire parking area. These cameras will not provide detailed enough images to "identify" people or license plates, but it is a good overview of what is going on. I would then supplement these overview cameras with some good PTZ cameras. All times except when services are going on they would be set up to track people coming and going because the traffic flows will be light. When services are going on, I would have them more in "overview" mode and certainly pointed at any pedestrian choke points. Looking at the image you provided, I can easily see a need for at least three decent PTZ cameras and perhaps more. (To me there are three different parking lot areas and I would want at least one PTZ cameras for each). You probably also want a fixed camera with enough zoom strength to point at the two entrances full time as well as that shed building (which might actually require using PTZ cameras to get that much zoom). Depending on what that building is, you might want more coverage there.

Second, you have to consider other outside spaces that should have CCTV coverage. Certainly any "main" entrance that people use during a service should have coverage. But also places where people tend to congregate outside. Again, these would be more "overview" type cameras.

For each entrance to the church, I would want two or more cameras that will capture identifiable coverage of people as they enter or leave the facility (at least one mounted outside and one inside pointing at the door). This includes the any "service doors" or fire doors that no one uses regularly.

Coverage inside the church is a more sensitive subject and I would definitely get clarification from leadership before I made major decisions. That being said, I would at least cover the lobby area and sanctuary with a couple of cameras designed to provide an overview of the room. I would cover the office area with pretty robust coverage. That doesn't necessarily mean a camera in each office, but certainly any "reception area" as well as any hallways leading to offices, etc. Good coverage of the nursery and toddler rooms is probably important as well. Leadership should decide if they want cameras in other rooms - youth areas, adult Sunday school rooms, etc.

Again this are just some thoughts I had. They are neither right or wrong for your situation. Even if you come up with a design plan, you need to have a serious conversation with leadership about it and make sure they understand exactly what you are suggesting and why. Too many cameras might give a weird vibe to people, while too few cameras will reduce the effectiveness of the system. Make the leadership make those decisions.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Just my two cents.

I'm currently running 21 cameras on an i7-6700K with no problems at all. They're a mix of 2MP and 4MP with a total throughput of roughly 175Mb/ps on the ethernet side and around 200Mp/ps on the BI side of things. A high horsepower graphics card is not needed if you don't use DeepStack for AI. All it takes is to use sub streams on the cameras, hardware acceleration for the video becomes insignificant when using sub streams and sub streams are far more efficient. In terms of camera supported, BI will accept up to 64. I have heard of people using anything from 30-50 cameras in BI routinely, so that is not going to be a real concern or problem.

In terms of focal lengths, get a single varifocal camera and experiment with bot mounting positions and focal length. There is a converter in the WiKi which will let you approximate the actual focal length of a varifocal. Using fixed, versus varifocal in every case, will reduce the overall cost per camera which can be important and allow for even more camera.

I'd say stick with what we know works best when it comes to cameras. Here's a list of some reviews for you. Andy, from EmpireTech is an excellent source of genuine Dahua cameras. Since they are authentic Dahua under the hood, their firmware can be upgraded if/when necessary and he provides excellent support to his customers and to everyone here on IPCT that asks him a question.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Keep in mind that it may take two cameras, or more, to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

Review - 8MP 1/1.2" sensor full color camera

Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera

Intro I’m excited to be doing another Worlds First Review. this time as I mentioned in the full color thread, I’ve been testing the new Dahua full color 4K camera. This was provided courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY for a fair, honest, no holds barred, unbiased review. I’ll attempt to answer any and...

ipcamtalk.com

2021 Full Color 2.0 Has a Fantastic New Dual Lens Camera

Hey guys The full color 2.0 has been released. Most cams I already posted here. Like: IPC-Color4K-X Bullet 4MP Motorized Full color. Today I bring a secret model, 1st release for the Dual-Lens Full color model in the world. Dual-lens Camera( Sample at Early Sep ) Ø Dual light fusion...

ipcamtalk.com

5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...

ipcamtalk.com

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $160 Link to camera...

ipcamtalk.com

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...

ipcamtalk.com

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

Review: OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Pro AI Starlight Full-color Fixed Bullet

Many thanks once again to Andy @EMPIRETECANDY we have for testing the OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Starlight+ Full Color bullet. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a fixed 3.6mm bullet (Pro AI) series with the 1/1.8” sensor. It has no built in...

ipcamtalk.com

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

Again courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY EmpireTech Andy we have a new cam to look over. Its a new model in Dahua's new Lite H265 Series of cam's. Available for purchase here: Aliexpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and more Price is approx...

ipcamtalk.com

3241T-ZAS Review

Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal

IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[JHMillerSr]

Here is just some thought I have after thinking about this for a little while.......

For the parking lot coverage, here is what I think I would do. First, have cameras mounted on the building with the appropriate focal lengths to provide an overview of the lot. There should be enough cameras that it covers the entire parking area. These cameras will not provide detailed enough images to "identify" people or license plates, but it is a good overview of what is going on. I would then supplement these overview cameras with some good PTX cameras. All times except when services are going on they would be set up to track people coming and going because the traffic flows will be light. When services are going on, I would have them trained on the entrances and any other choke points. Looking at the image you provided, I can easily see a need for at least three decent PTZ cameras and perhaps more. (To me there are three different parking lot areas and I would want one cameras for each). You probably also want a fixed camera with enough zoom strength to point at the two entrances full time as well as that shed building. Depending on what that building is, you might want more coverage there.

Second, you have to consider other outside spaces that should have CCTV coverage. Certainly any "main" entrance that people use during a service should have coverage. But also places where people tend to congregate outside. Again, these would be more "overview" type cameras.

For each entrance to the church, I would want two or more cameras that will capture identifiable coverage of people as they enter or leave the facility (at least one mounted outside and one inside pointing at the door). This includes the any "service doors" or fire doors that no one uses regularly.

Coverage inside the church is a more sensitive subject and I would definitely get clarification from leadership before I made major decisions. That being said, I would at least cover the lobby area and sanctuary with a couple of cameras designed to provide an overview of the room. I would cover the office area with pretty robust coverage. That doesn't necessarily mean a camera in each office, but certainly any "reception area" as well as any hallways leading to offices, etc. Good coverage of the nursery and toddler rooms is probably important as well. Leadership should decide if they want cameras in other rooms - youth areas, adult Sunday school rooms, etc.

Again this are just some thoughts I had. They are neither right or wrong for your situation. Even if you come up with a design plan, you need to have a serious conversation with leadership about it and make sure they understand exactly what you are suggesting and why. Too many cameras might give a weird vibe to people, while too few cameras will reduce the effectiveness of the system. Make the leadership make those decisions.

Again, excellent information. I will take all this to the leadership of the church. Thank you. Budget right now is what I am working with. ~ $4-7k for this year. Then expand next year. So having a plan would be an excellent point moving forward. I’ll get this on paper and post later. Thank you again. Really do appreciate it.

 

[JHMillerSr]

Just my two cents.

I'm currently running 21 cameras on an i7-6700K with no problems at all. They're a mix of 2MP and 4MP with a total throughput of roughly 175Mb/ps on the ethernet side and around 200Mp/ps on the BI side of things. A high horsepower graphics card is not needed if you don't use DeepStack for AI. All it takes is to use sub streams on the cameras, hardware acceleration for the video becomes insignificant when using sub streams and sub streams are far more efficient. In terms of camera supported, BI will accept up to 64. I have heard of people using anything from 30-50 cameras in BI routinely, so that is not going to be a real concern or problem.

In terms of focal lengths, get a single varifocal camera and experiment with bot mounting positions and focal length. There is a converter in the WiKi which will let you approximate the actual focal length of a varifocal. Using fixed, versus varifocal in every case, will reduce the overall cost per camera which can be important and allow for even more camera.

I'd say stick with what we know works best when it comes to cameras. Here's a list of some reviews for you. Andy, from EmpireTech is an excellent source of genuine Dahua cameras. Since they are authentic Dahua under the hood, their firmware can be upgraded if/when necessary and he provides excellent support to his customers and to everyone here on IPCT that asks him a question.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Keep in mind that it may take two cameras, or more, to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

Review - 8MP 1/1.2" sensor full color camera

Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera

Intro I’m excited to be doing another Worlds First Review. this time as I mentioned in the full color thread, I’ve been testing the new Dahua full color 4K camera. This was provided courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY for a fair, honest, no holds barred, unbiased review. I’ll attempt to answer any and...

ipcamtalk.com

2021 Full Color 2.0 Has a Fantastic New Dual Lens Camera

Hey guys The full color 2.0 has been released. Most cams I already posted here. Like: IPC-Color4K-X Bullet 4MP Motorized Full color. Today I bring a secret model, 1st release for the Dual-Lens Full color model in the world. Dual-lens Camera( Sample at Early Sep ) Ø Dual light fusion...

ipcamtalk.com

5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...

ipcamtalk.com

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $160 Link to camera...

ipcamtalk.com

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...

ipcamtalk.com

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

Review: OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Pro AI Starlight Full-color Fixed Bullet

Many thanks once again to Andy @EMPIRETECANDY we have for testing the OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Starlight+ Full Color bullet. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a fixed 3.6mm bullet (Pro AI) series with the 1/1.8” sensor. It has no built in...

ipcamtalk.com

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

Again courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY EmpireTech Andy we have a new cam to look over. Its a new model in Dahua's new Lite H265 Series of cam's. Available for purchase here: Aliexpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and more Price is approx...

ipcamtalk.com

3241T-ZAS Review

Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal

IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...

ipcamtalk.com

Man I’m so glad I came here and asked. Getting excellent feedback is critical. I will ask….from ‘security’ aspects of network security. Are what many talk about using Chinese camera’s all fake or something to consider? Is Dahua in that category, assuming not as you’re recommending it. also, you mention about throughput, where do I find that on BI?

 

[sebastiantombs]

Any camera, Chinese, Chinese "fake", German, US or anywhere else they are made are ALL potential security risks. The simplest way to mitigate that risk is to deny them access to the internet. In my case I use a second network card in the Blue Iris machine that is dedicated to just the switches for the cameras and on a totally different IP subnet scheme. Since Win10, incidentally stay away from Win11 for now for Blue Iris, doesn't route traffic without being configured to do o, the cameras have no access to the internet. Time synchronization for the cameras is handled by Net Time which access NTP servers through the regular LAN connection and the cameras access NetTime through the second NIC.

 

[The Automation Guy]

I will ask….from ‘security’ aspects of network security. Are what many talk about using Chinese camera’s all fake or something to consider? Is Dahua in that category, assuming not as you’re recommending it. also, you mention about throughput, where do I find that on BI?

First, if you are asking about the security risk of using Chinese cameras, this is a post that I've made before on the subject, but my feelings are still the same...

Do not let the fact that these cameras are produced in China scare you from using them. There are two levels of "hacking" threats IMHO. The first is to the general population like you and me. We primarily have to be worried about our devices "spying" on us (ie sending information back to unknown servers) and our devices being taken over for "bot armies". Both of these threats are effectively eliminated with a properly secure local network which does not allow these devices access to/from the internet. The second level is stuff that governments and large corporations need to worry about. These are targeted and active attempts to break into networks. These are done on high value targets due to the time and cost, so it's not something the average person has to worry about. Yes the US Gov has barred Chinese cameras from being installed at their facilities and with good reason.

Personally I agree with the Chinese ban for government installations. Large businesses, utility companies and governments need to be worried about much more than the average person. Don't under estimate the level of digital warfare that is being waged today. As an example, take the Iranian uranium centrifuges that were damaged a few years back using a virus even though they were on a "closed network" without internet access. That virus floated harmlessly around the world until it finally found itself on the right network with the right centrifuges installed on it. At that point it activated and damaged the equipment. A camera is a perfect trojan horse to get nefarious things onto an isolated (ie no WAN connection) network. The Chinese wouldn't have to figure out how to penetrate a secure government facility to upload something nefarious because we would install it ourselves when we installed their camera. Of course that type of attack would be very focused and have a specific target. It would be an offensive weapon rather than a "data collector" because without internet there is no way to pass data back. It could be an extremely effective weapon however.

That being said, these are issues that the general public doesn't need to worry about. There is nothing on our home networks that the Chinese are going to "target" with that type of sophisticated attack. That's why I am perfectly fine with running Dahua cameras at my house. Of course they are on their own isolated VLAN without internet access to prevent data collection and zombie bot use, but that should be done regardless of the manufacturer or country of manufacturing.

Second, if you are worried about "grey market" cameras and whether a camera you buy is really designed for the US market or if it is really a Chinese version using some hacked firmware with English directions, then that is a valid concern. I would not buy Chinese cameras from just any vendor. I would certainly recommend you use a trusted vendor because there are plenty of people selling Chinese versions of cameras with a hacked "English" firmware on it. That is a receipt for disaster because the camera will likely brick the first time you try to update it.

On this forum, we love EmpireTech Andy. He is Chinese and has legitimate third party selling agreements with Dahua and other manufacturers. He sells his cameras under the Loryta and EmpireTech names, but they are genuine Dahua (or Hikvision, or whatever model you are looking at) models with genuine US Firmware installed on them. These are completely safe to use and update using the public firmware listed on the manufacture's website. That being said, most of us stick with Andy's firmware version because he (and several people on this forum) works closely with the engineers at Dahua and get features put into his firmware that simply aren't available in the manufacture's OEM versions. But you can use either version and even go to OEM and then back to Andy's custom versions or vice verse. Andy sells cameras directly to consumers (you can DM him via the forum), but also has an Amazon store if you want to go that route. That being said, Andy isn't the only legitimate seller of these cameras and you should feel comfortable with whoever you choose.

 

[JHMillerSr]

First, if you are asking about the security risk of using Chinese cameras, this is a post that I've made before on the subject, but my feelings are still the same...


Second, if you are worried about "grey market" cameras and whether a camera you buy is really designed for the US market, or is some hacked firmware, then that is a valid concern. I would not buy Chinese cameras from just any vendor. I would certainly recommend you use a trusted vendor because there are plenty of people getting Chinese versions of cameras and sticking a hacked US firmware on it. That is a receipt for disaster because the camera will likely brick the first time you try to update it.

On this forum, we love EmpireTech Andy. He is Chinese and has legitimate third party selling agreements with Dahua and other manufacturers. He sells his cameras under the Loryta and EmpireTech names, but they are genuine Dahua (or Hikvision, or whatever model you are looking at) models with genuine US Firmware installed on them. These are completely safe to use and update (although most of us stick with Andy's customer firmware because he works closely with the engineers at Dahua and get features put into his firmware that simply aren't available in the OEM versions). Andy sells cameras directly to consumers (you can DM him via the forum), but also has an Amazon store if you want to go that route.

Looks like Andy has already been in touch. Seems like a great guy. I'll probably stick with him for cam's. Amazon is an easy way to purchase.

 

[MrRobinHood]

Make sure you get one with high quality audio to put in the confessional, then launch a YouTube channel with the footage and see the ad revenue dwarf the weekly collection money

 

[The Automation Guy]

Again, excellent information. I will take all this to the leadership of the church. Thank you. Budget right now is what I am working with. ~ $4-7k for this year. Then expand next year. So having a plan would be an excellent point moving forward. I’ll get this on paper and post later. Thank you again. Really do appreciate it.

One last thing.... if you haven't discovered the IPMV Calculator, I suggest you spend a lot of time on it. You can enter the address of the church and it will bring up the satellite image of the property and allow you to overlay cameras onto it. You can specify exact models of different cameras and the system will pretty accurately display the focal length coverage (how wide a view it shows) as well as a visual representation of the DORI principals via the shade of blue. Dark blue is footage detailed enough to "identify" someone and the next lighter blue it "recognize" someone, then "Observe" people, and finally "detect" someone is there. It's not perfect and it won't give you any indication on how well a particular camera model will work as far as image quality, it's low/no light performance, etc etc etc. It is a helpful tool in the initial planning however to determine what cameras might be needed and where the best place to install them is.

 

[wittaj]

Just to further echo above, I guarantee you most do not have the relationship with Dahua and Hikvision that Andy @EMPIRETECANDY has.

Andy's cameras are Dahua and Hikvision OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon and AliExpress store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

As long you you buy from the vendor EmpireTech or Loryta on Amazon (or AliExpress), they are Andy cams and Dahua or Hikvision OEM.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua and Hikvision authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from an authorized dealer. You select the country at camera initialization.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua and Hikvision website, thus proving they are real Dahua and Hikvision. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provided that to Andy for sale before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...

You do have to be careful with some rebranded cameras purchased from other vendors as they are cameras that are for the Chinese region but have been hacked into English but then are not able to be updated or they will brick. Buying from a reputable source is key to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[JHMillerSr]

@wittaj @The Automation Guy @sebastiantombs
Locally, someone is selling 4-Dell R710 for $99. worth it or move along?

Dell R710 Servers iDRAC6 Enterprise 2x L5520 Xeon Processors (4c/8t) base@2.26GHz 24GB Memory (6x4GB @1066MHz) 4x Broadcom 5709 Dual Port 1GbE NIC w/TOE (4 ports onboard, 4 ports on riser) 2x Emulex LPE 12002, Dual Port 8Gb Fibre Channel HBA PERC 6/i SAS RAID Controller 8x 2.5-Inch Hdd Bays 16gb SSD in each server 2x Energy Smart Power Supply Redundant, 570W No Operating System *No rails OR Drive caddy's

 

[00Buck]

Move along!

 

[sebastiantombs]

I'd tend to stay away from Xeon processors. They generally use a lot more power than a standard processor and don't offer any serious advantages for a dedicated BI machine. An i7-8700 or newer would be a better choice. If it's in a refurb commercial lease machine it'll include Win10, and probably Win10/Pro for the OS.