Combatting Racism using a wired only camera setup

[MHenny33]

Hey guys and gals. I live in the UK and have recently started to receive racist abuse from a few in my area which is now extended to people on my property at night. The police recommended I put up cameras asap. To make matters worse, my landlord won’t allow me to drill through the brick and my internet is horrendous. Thankfully due to UK home building I can put wires through gaps in the side of the roof, which I can run through my attic, and then into my home.

What I’m looking for and urgently in need of is as follows.

1. Cameras with good definition and night vision and fps which do not use the internet whatsoever. 4k if possible.
2. A server which also is not reliant on the internet and software that will allow me to connect a laptop for real time viewing when needed. which also doesn’t use the internet. Given the abuse, I’m hopeful for quick responses so I can order and install asap. My budget is £500. Many thanks in advance.

 

[actran]

@MHenny33 This is the best all-around varifocal camera at the moment, especially if you care about night captures: EmpireTech IPC-T5442T-ZE 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP Ultra Low Light Starlight IR

Varifocal allows you to adjust zoom. Audio recording on this camera is good. Camera also has AI human/vehicle detection for few or 0 false alarms.

The non-varifocal version is cheaper IPC-T5442TM-AS

The guy who runs this camera store is a site member and is trustworthy. He will ship to UK fast.

Buy an SD card to record locally. When you're on your home network, you can hit the camera webUI to access the recording.

Good luck.

P.S. Best if you have a POE switch to provide power+network connectivity to these cameras.

 

[wittaj]

Sorry to hear that.

Shutter speed is more important than FPS.

Depending on distance, 2MP may be the better choice. Do not chase MP - chase sensor size and the proper focal length for the distance you want to IDENTIFY at. A camera that is good for IDENTIFY at 10 feet is different than a camera at 40 feet and more MP won't help.

You need to get the right camera for the distance to IDENTIFY.

Take a look at this thread that shows with links the most commonly recommended cameras based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the best value based on price and performance day and night. These cameras do not rely on internet. It is simply a web browser to view the cameras live and review video on the SD card in the camera. Many will use these with an NVR or other VMS like Blue Iris and computer, but it can certainly be done with just a web browser and SD card.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

Stay away from the consumer big box store cameras as this will be all you will get (plus most rely on an internet cloud based solution):

The Typical picture of a Perp on Nextdoor-type Apps with Consumer Grade Cameras like Ring, Nest, Arlo, Canary, Wyze, etc.

Love these posts on Nextdoor type apps LOL. This thread will be used for members to post the poor quality consumer grade type camera images that we see people post to the Nextdoor type apps. Can anyone make out this person that went thru their cars LOL.... And this thread is where members...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[MHenny33]

Hey @wittaj and @actran I’m truly appreciative of the quick responses here. As for the no internet, I should stress that the only isp in my area paid for most of my internet last year because it’s so terrible It’s virtually non existent so when you say “web Os,” if that actually requires me to use the internet at any stage then unfortunately it won’t be applicable here.

my goal is camera to server wired. Have the server record / store footage but also allow me to connect a laptop (wired) and watch footage in real time. I forgot to mention audio but you guys rightly included that in your responses. I am really greatful for your info and early support on this.

 

[wittaj]

None of the cameras I have referenced need the internet.

In fact most of us don't even have the cameras touching the internet.

The web browser will work without internet.

There is no special software needed - you simply open up a web browser and type in the IP address of the camera and you log in to the camera that way. No internet needed.

By server, do you mean you plan to get an NVR or other system?

For one camera and short term use, an SD card in the camera is more than capable. Especially with your budget.

 

[MHenny33]

Hey @wittaj

When you say “None of the cameras I have referenced need the internet.” I should add that I’m looking for cameras that don’t have internet capabilities built into the camera.

I am hoping for a solution that doesn’t require me to use internet explorer, google chrome etc to view the footage. Also when I say “server,” I’m talking about the package units that come with cameras and a sever where the footage is stored.

Please forgive my naivety here. I’m slightly flustered as I had people knocking my door and posting rotten meat through my letterbox last night… I will get up to speed on the technicals as I have no other choice.

 

[wittaj]

There is a disconnect or misunderstanding.

You said you don't want to have a camera that requires the internet. The cameras I reference meet that requirement.

You said you don't want a camera that requires software to use it. The cameras I reference meet that requirement. All it needs is a native web browser available on any computer.

Or you can download some software that will probably be more trouble than it is worth - and some of those softwares will then require internet. Or add a NVR to the system.

You said you don't want cameras that have internet capabilities built in - The cameras I reference do not have internet capabilities built in, but you can give them access to the internet if YOU want to, which most of us here do not advise to do. Don't plug the camera into the internet and it won't have internet. It is that simple.

You want a "server" that you call a package unit that comes with the cameras and the server.

In that case a "server" is the NVR. Don't connect the NVR to the internet and it won't have internet. But every one of these consumer all-in-one-box kits have ability to connect to internet if YOU give it access. And some of these will require internet for the software to work properly.

All of these systems have the ability to connect to the internet should YOU chose to do so.

Unless you only need to IDENTIFY within 5-10 feet of the camera, none of these "package units" will meet your needs.

Are you able to install a camera at head height?

Cloud based systems like Ring, Arlo, Nest, Blink, etc. REQUIRE an internet connection to work. They also come with an easy to use app.

So what is it do you really want?

It is sounding like you want some cheap analog system that comes with 4 cameras and a "server" to store the video, but even then it has internet capability unless you do not plug an internet cable into it. but it will be useless at night.

You have to decide do you want simple to put up (but results in garbage image at night like the thread I linked above) or do you want something that will actually be able to IDENTIFY the person.

 

[MHenny33]

Hi again @wittaj

You’re right. There’s a miscommunication in terms of tech here. Please bear with me on that front. If the camera and nvr (what I was referring to as server) don’t require the internet then that’s great and exactly what I require.

My plan was to have a pro install the cameras and have them run continuously from there accessing the feed/nvr when required. Image quality is vital as is audio. I only need 3 cameras, the nvr, and tips on the additional cabling. Given the situation I’ll need to put the cameras above head height, in line with my bedroom windows. I should add that an anti tamper alarm would be useful…

 

[wittaj]

So you get the cameras we recommend above based on your distance to IDENTIFY and an NVR and don't plug the internet into it!

How above head height is it? Once you get above 8 feet, it makes it harder to get faces.

A camera on the 2nd story looking at the front door on the first floor will result in tops of heads and hoodies.

So then you need to rely on getting IDENTIFY at a further out distance, which is a difference camera.

The cameras don't have an anti-tamper alarm per say, but these lock down fairly good and some have the option to alert when a signal is lost or it appears to be tampered with.

 

[MHenny33]

I did some research and found some footage of the cameras night vision and I’d say the camera empiretech t5442t is perfect for my needs. Could you also recommend a compatible nvr and also the forum members contact details who sells them.

in terms of options I am wondering if there are similar setup but slightly cheaper I can order from and sold in the uk. Just out of interest.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah the 5442 is a great camera.

@EMPIRETECANDY is the member here that sells these. Here are the various ways to contact him or order from him. Many here from the UK order from him. It is hard to beat his prices.

Amazon US shop Link. Amazon.com
Amazon Europe link Amazon.de
Amazon Canada Shop Link. Amazon.ca
IP CAMTALK Shop IP Cameras & Blue Iris - IP Cam Talk Store
Empiretech Official Website : www.empiretech01.com
Direct Order Contact me to order by email if you want to buy directly or talking on system design and camera selection. My email is kingsecurity2014@163.com.
Europe customers and other countries' customers, still can buy directly, we ship from US via free tax way for EU customer.



Take a look at his refurbished list as any of those NVRs would work and you get them cheaper. And maybe one of the 5442 refurbs would be a good choice as well.

Clearance Outlet and Refurbished Products | EmpireTech

Refurbished products have been professionally serviced, verified, and certified for optimal quality while minimizing environmental damage. Buying refurbished is a cost-effective and ecologically responsible choice. Outlet items are brand-new and often discontinued.

empiretech01.com

 

[MHenny33]

Any info on the compatible nvr and additional cabling/wiring?

I appreciate the info and will contact the member directly about a purchase and shipping to the uk. Many thanks.

 

[wittaj]

Any of those NVRs will work for 3 or 4 cameras, but most would recommend buying an NVR with more capacity than you need as you may always want to add cameras.

Then you will need ethernet cabling. Get pure copper and not CCA wiring.

 

[CCTVCam]

Is the Landlord OK with you drilling holes for mounts because whatever camera you fit, you'll have to mount it securely to the brickwork. It usually requires 3 screws / wall plugs per camera. The cables can be exposed if you can't drill through the walls. ideally you'd put them in steel conduit from the camera up to the eaves but that would be more drilling. I'd use black external grade poe cable that's solid copper, cable clipped to the wall because there's virtually not trace when removed. Black makes it hard to see especially at night. I wouldn't worry about them cutting the cable. They could, but provided you have them on video doing it, it doesn't matter - you have them for criminal damage. It might be useful to post a photo of the front of the house along with a description of the parts you want to cover so Wittaj can help you further with placement. Careful palcement can allow cameras to cover each other although it depends on your situation and the number of cameras. As a further suggestion, I'd get black cameras also for further concealment. They can be seen, but aren't as noticeable as white. Other stand alone solutions are trail cameras but that will depend on your garden and these can be prone to theft especially if the IR frequency is low enough to be visible.

 

[MHenny33]

Any of those NVRs will work for 3 or 4 cameras, but most would recommend buying an NVR with more capacity than you need as you may always want to add cameras.

Then you will need ethernet cabling. Get pure copper and not CCA wiring.

So the recommended cameras connect through Ethernet cabling to the nvr?

Also could you recommend a nvr which leans to not requiring internet and accessible for real time viewing via a laptop. I truly appreciate your guidance here… Until yesterday I was calling the nvr “the server.”

Is the Landlord OK with you drilling holes for mounts because whatever camera you fit, you'll have to mount it securely to the brickwork. It usually requires 3 screws / wall plugs per camera. The cables can be exposed if you can't drill through the walls. ideally you'd put them in steel conduit from the camera up to the eaves but that would be more drilling. I'd use black external grade poe cable that's solid copper, cable clipped to the wall because there's virtually not trace when removed. Black makes it hard to see especially at night. I wouldn't worry about them cutting the cable. They could, but provided you have them on video doing it, it doesn't matter - you have them for criminal damage. It might be useful to post a photo of the front of the house along with a description of the parts you want to cover so Wittaj can help you further with placement. Careful palcement can allow cameras to cover each other although it depends on your situation and the number of cameras. As a further suggestion, I'd get black cameras also for further concealment. They can be seen, but aren't as noticeable as white. Other stand alone solutions are trail cameras but that will depend on your garden and these can be prone to theft especially if the IR frequency is low enough to be visible.

External black grade poe sounds good but at the time of reading I’m not sure they fit the model of camera @wittaj has advised.

As for the landlord allowing me, it’s a grey area. By law I can mount security cameras if I need to as a tenant. However, drilling through the brick ( which is the ideal) is where the law is not so clear and could possibly lead to the landlord asking for damages. So to avoid any future dispute and given my internet situation, a wired setup is the best way forward.

Two cameras that overlap is the aim. It’ll enable me to see everything and force them to break the law on camera. And cover me, legally, should things take a turn when I’m forced to protect myself.

Again thanks for the info and guidance.

 

[wittaj]

Yes most cameras are going to be powered and send data thru an ethernet cable. It is called POE (Power over Ethernet).

You keep getting hung up about Internet - as long as you don't buy a cloud based camera and do not plug the camera or NVR into your router, then it won't have internet capabilities.

As far as hanging a camera up, it is the same whether you provide internet to it or not - unless you go battery operated (not advised), every camera is going to have 3 or 4 holes drilled into something - the brick, siding, eave, soffit, etc. and then wiring from the camera to the NVR.

Which brings up another point - how do you plan on getting the wiring from outside to inside the apartment? You will probably need to cut an opening in the wall unless you are bringing it thru a window that is then left slightly open.

Black grade POE cabling will work just fine with these cameras. Most of the cable is black anyway. Just steer clear of cabling labeled as Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA) and stick with pure copper wiring.

If all you plan on is 3 cameras, then this NVR will be sufficient

EmpireTech Refurbished NVR4108-4KS2 8 Channel Smart 1U 4K & H.265 Lite

8-channel IP video access Smart H.265+/Smart H.264+/H.265/H.264; H.265 auto switch Max 80 Mbps incoming bandwidth Up to 8MP resolution for preview and playback 8-channel decoding@1080p (30 fps) AI by Camera: Perimeter protection; SMD Plus; people counting; heat map

empiretech01.com

Although most of us here would recommend a better one such as this one:

EmpireTech Refurbished NVR5208-4KS2 8 Channel 1U 2HDDs 4K & H.265 Pro

8-channel IP video access Smart H.265+/Smart H.264+/H.265/H.264/MJPEG; H.265 auto switch Max 320 Mbps incoming bandwidth Up to 24MP resolution for live view and playback 1-channel fisheye dewarping (AI by NVR) AI by Camera: Perimeter protection; face detection and recognition; SMD Plus; video...

empiretech01.com

 

[CCTVCam]

And cover me, legally, should things take a turn when I’m forced to protect myself.

Again thanks for the info and guidance.

Br careful on that one. In the UK you legally have virtually no rights. Best left to the police unless cornered. If you go out to them there's a chance it will be taken as you putting yourself in the danger and seeking confrontation which might make it more difficult to prove that it was reasonable.

 

[IAmATeaf]

Another potential issue is if the cams are mounted high near the roof gutters you may not get the best view/angle of the perps.

I know it is frowned upon but you could try just placing them inside looking out to see what sort of video you are able to capture. For some people it doesn’t work due to the reflection of the glass especially at night if the IR is on but for others it seems to work OK?

 

[MHenny33]

Hey guys.

Firstly I just want to say thanks for the support shown in this situation. So again, thank you.

I have run into a snag in terms of the nvr. The refurbished nvr posted isn’t an option as the seller won’t ship that to the uk because it’s a refurb. I have already decided on the cameras, which were recommended in this thread but need a viable (no internet required) nvr that is around the $170 mark. The options the seller gave go above my budget at $300 and up.

Hoping to place an order today.