Comparision of ReoLink RLC-811A vs Amcrest IP8M-2796EW-AI, etc for Human/Person AI Detection and More

[IAmWatchingYou!]

I just purchased both of these cameras to start testing with. I'm not at a property I have 6 months of the year, so human AI detection and push alerts are very important to me. I couldn't really find any good comparisons of human AI detection between brands. I have accumulated lots of various cameras over the years, but I am and they are in need of some refreshing so I bought these 2 cameras to start playing around with. I thought I'd share what I find as I test these cameras, and hope to get some feedback from anyone interested.

As we all know, a camera's low light / night performance is the first thing to look at for most outdoor situations with limited lighting. I set these cameras side by side in my back yard, and tested them at night with both ALL LEDs disabled as wll as IR on. The image quality / night performance is very similar with all LEDs disabled. I noticed the Amcrest automatically adjusts its image brightness, whereas with the Reolink, you have to manually adjust it, but you can adjust brightness just for night mode under Display settings.

I then tested human / person detection by roaming around at various distances and directions. The Reolink blew the Amcrest away for detection - to the point where it was pretty shocking (detection on the Reolink was the default of 60, and set to maximum on the Amcrest - upped it to see if that would help). I had to be within about 15 feet of the Amcreset for it to have a chance at picking me up. The Reolink would pick me up at about 30 feet. With the Reolink, I only had to walk a few steps for it to pick me up. With the Amcrest I had to be walking at a faster pace and much longer distance. I barely got notified with the Amcrest, whereas it was exceedingly difficult to escape the Reolink.

I also have an Amcrest IP5M-1190 that I've had mounted indoors for quite a while. Even with the human detection set on high, this hardly ever picks me up walking by if I'm more than about 12 feet away.

I was pretty disappointed since I was really leaning towards going all in on Amcrest since I like their physical camera options better as well as their web GUI which allows for many more configuration options. I'm also thinking about testing one or two newer Hikvision cameras with Acusense and Darkfighter.

Has anyone else done or seen a good comparison of the human AI detection between brands?

My next test will be placing them in the garage and pointing them at the street to see how they perform as people walk by. I'm curious if the Reolink will have more false positives.

One other thing about the Reolink - you can set the white LEDs to come on from human or car detection

More to come...


Here were some of my camera requirements:

Embedded human AI detection for accurate alerts
API so I can use my home automation system to disable alerts & motion detection when I’m home and in various situations
Push alerts
Email alerts as backup to push alerts
Local SD recording (always good to have multiple storage destinations)
Good low light performance
ONVIF for future NVR
RTSP for future NVR and for indoor cameras (cloud restricted access for privacy - VPN only)
Copy to FTP on alarm
Warn away spot / flood lights for outdoor cameras with detection based activation
Two-way audio for warn away
Bullet style for outdoor cameras since all soffits are slanted and there is no clean looking mounting options for other styles. (I will be mounting a junction box to the soffits first for easy camera replacement).

 

[TonyR]

As we all know, a camera's low light / night performance is the first thing to look at for most outdoor situations with limited lighting.

Do you consider it important to be able to identify someone if they are in motion at night? ==>>Reolink RLC-811A Night vision vs color night vision review from youtube

Picking up motion is great but if it produces a blurred image of an unidentifiable object, it's of little value, IMO.

 

[wittaj]

Move away from the budget cameras and you will have better results.

Plus one of the things you will find are cameras with two-way audio are mostly gimmicky and put on cheaper smaller sensors to keep the price down. The 4K/X is the exception, but it is also $250.

And as mentioned above, do you just want detection or the ability to get a clean capture? Because at night the reo's won't cut it. Post some images of the person in motion and you will see what we mean.

The king of the hill is the Dahua OEM 5442 series and will blow those away, but they are also around $200 depending on which version (fixed or varifocal).

I will preface this with this camera is dialed in to this location for when the flood lights come on, so that is why the picture is so dark. One of the big issues people do not account for is what happens when a floodlight comes in - if the camera is on auto/default settings, the image will look ok when the floodlights are off, but then the camera gets temporarily blinded when the floodlights turn on. So the best option is to dial it in for when the floodlight is on knowing that they will kick on and you will get a great capture once they do.

So I have several IVS tripwires on this camera instead of an intrusion because this camera also acts as a spotter cam for my PTZ and I only wanted to spot it of people heading towards and not away. Obviously at the street, this camera is not being used for IDENTIFY purposes, but rather OBSERVATION purposes.

Here is a middle of the night capture (the red and blue lines are the IVS rules and when it triggered). My non AI cameras totally missed this event, including my overview when this person was in front of my house and was lit better from the lights off my house. This is the middle of the night at 100 feet away in color with someone in dark clothing and the AI picked them up.



Better cameras result in better results....

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

Yeah I think I'm going to go with Hikvision or Dahua. I looked at the IPC-HFW5442E-ZE-OPAT (5442 series), but I really want the human & vehicle AT, so that leaves me with picking out a camera from the Dahua Wizsense series. I'll have to do some reading, pick out the camera I want from the Wizsense series, and compare that to the Hikvision Acusense camera I picked out. I'd like to know about push notifications, their app, playback, configuration options, etc. Maybe I'll just have to get one of each to compare.

I'm returning all 4 Amcrest cameras that I purchased. Amcrest's AI detection is garbage. Today had both the Reolink RLC-811A and Amcrest IP8M-2796EW-AI side by side pointed out of my garage for a couple of hours. The Reolink accurately picked up 23 vehicles with no false alarms, and the Amcrest picked up just 7 vehicles! That's an enormous amount of misses for the Amcrest (made by Dahua)! Amcrest does have IVS where Reolink doesn't but from experimenting with Hikvision IVS, at least with my older Hikvision cameras, I'd have shadows trigger line crossing, so good AI seems much more important.
@wittaj, how has IVS worked out for you with false alarms?

Hikvision's timeline playback tool is worlds better than both Reolink's and Amcrest's. Reolink's is a disaster - it doesn't even auto play to the next segment in the timeline, and if you use the thin scrollbar to adjust the timeline and slide off if it at all, you'll have to start all over. The Amcrest doesn't even use a timeline, but as least it tries to automatically play the next video in the sequence (it fails to load the next video for me though).

I just tested 2-way audio on both cameras. The Amcrest is super tinny sounding. Listening to the environment is fine with the Reolink, but when using talk, everything feeds/echos back through the microphone on the cameras as there's clearly no echo cancellation whatsoever.

 

[wittaj]

The 5442 series has human and vehicle AI.

You will find that the Dahua app/interface will look very similar to the Amcrest as Dahua makes Amcrest except Amcrest uses lessor sensor quality and components to sell it cheaper to consumers than a Dahua camera.

It is one of the many reasons why many of us went to Blue Iris. I can scan overnight activity of all my cameras in under 30 seconds. It takes that long just to pull up one camera on the camera app and forever to scrub thru all of them. When I was using a DVR, it was more reactive and I would only look if I saw something out of place or a neighbor called. With BI, I can scan it quickly in the morning and see if anything happened.

Personally I have found the Dahua AI to be spot on. But like everything, it is field of view dependent and not trying to do too much with one camera or field of view. YMMV.

I have zero false alarms. If my phone dings, I know someone is where they shouldn't be.

Who uses Dahua AI capable cameras? Reliable AI for triggering events? Pro's/con's?

It has come to my attention that certain Dahua cameras come with built in AI that distinguishes between human & cars. I was unaware of this. Well, always saw the AI word used in the reviews but never really thought about it because I thought it was a Dahua NVR integration only. I am currently...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

That's interesting that with Amcrest being Dahua, there would be such a performance difference with the AI detection. In my searches, I had come across several people who had swapped out their firmware to Dahua and back to Amcrest, and didn't see anyone mention AI performance. So, it will be interesting when I get a Dahua and a Hikvision to test out and compare their AI detection performance.

I've had Blue Iris from the beginning, but haven't touched it in years since I didn't want to leave a high powered PC on 24x7 when I can just store video via FTP / NAS, but it might come to that at some point here. I just started reading about Deepstack and SenseAI, but not sure how they perform compared to the onboard software.

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

So I'm pretty frustrated with my options at the moment because there simply isn't much in the line of test comparisons that anyone has published online for AI detection between Dahua, Amcrest, Hikvision, and Reolink besides my test between Amcrest and Reolink above. With Amcrest being Dahua, and the absolute abysmal human / vehicle detection performance of the Amcrest IP8M-2796EW-AI camera I tested compared the Reolink RLC-811A, I'm scared to jump on Dahua.

My choices seem to be between these two cameras:
Hikvsion DS-2CD2T87G2 ColorVu 1/1.2 Sensor, 8MP, $344 @B&H
or
Dahua N85EFN2 Night Color, 1/1.2 sensor, 8MP $435 @B&H
or
Go with the Reolink RLC-811A until I can eventually get some more testing and data from Dahua and Hikvision with their AI and night performance.

If I went with the Dahua or Hikvision models I would have to commit to using the white LEDs as both manufacturers don't offer equivalent cameras with both IR and white LED lights. So, if there was ever any future reason to need to disable the white LEDs, the cameras would be almost useless. The Reolink offers choices of white or IR LEDs.

Late last night I broke out the ladder and was up on my roof with a laptop and the Reolink RLC-811A to get some perspective on what things would look like. IR was great. White LEDs were a step back, and motion blur was horrendous for any cars that drove by.

 

[sebastiantombs]

You need to find better pricing than B&H. Try the IPCT store or here -

Andy
IPCT Thread

EmpireTech Andy

Dahua products

ipcamtalk.com

Andy's Store

Amazon.com

King Security/EmpireTech Store

Amazon.com

Email
Andy Wang kingsecurity2014@163.com

Andy's instructional videos -

EmpireTech latest New firmware, Device Guide video, Manual WEB5.0

Hey guys In 2023, we will make more setting guide video for newbie, sometimes a small trick will make them big trouble to start the device. So we decide to make some basic setting videos for the newbies. Will add more later when we do more. We support @jmcu some fund and he made this great...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

You are trying to do too much with one camera.

And as I mentioned Amcrest is a watered down Dahua. Like comparing a Chevy to a Cadillac - both made by the GM, but which one is better?

You need to decide what is important, AI at distance or IDENTIFY.

The Reolink may AI at whatever distance you tested, but if it is a blurry mess at night at all locations, all it can tell you is what time they came by.

Or do you get a camera that can IDENTIFY but has a shorter AI detection range?

Or you do a mixture - get better cameras for IDENTIFY and then use the reolink to notify you about AI at distance.

You mentioned you have BI, so get better cameras to get you IDENTIFY within the areas you want good clean captures, and use the Reolink as an overview recognizing that is all it is an overview camera that will trigger AI.

I can assure you that Deepstack or SenseAI will struggle at distance as well. The models just are not designed for tiny "ants" on the edges of a field of view.

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

@wittaj

I get what you're saying about DETECT vs IDENTIFY and probably need to spend a little more time thinking this through. I have planned for 4 cameras up front and 2 in the rear. Up front, 2 will be mounted about 15' high and further back, and the other 2 will be about 7' high and closer to the road and sidewalk. I'm a bit nervous about people messing around with the low mounted cameras up front. Also, all the eves are at about a 20 degree slant, and mounting a turret or dome camera would look awful if I had to come up with some sort of mounting hack to keep the base level to the ground, so I'm going with all bullet cameras mounted to junction boxes for the added adjustability. There are slanted junction boxes out there, but they don't have enough space to wind up the camera pigtails in, and they have proprietary mounting plates which would complicate things when upgrading cameras.

So, I'm thinking I would put the Reollink's at the higher mounting location for DETECTION, and a different camera up front for ID. I might order the Dahua and Hikvision cameras I mentioned to test for the ID purpose.

@sebastiantombs

I did come across those stores as I've been searching the IPCamTalk forums here, but am skeptical. A while back I got some of the "gray market" Hikvision and Dahua cameras on Aliexpress, eBay, and Amazon, only to be burned with not being able to just go the manufacturers web site and download firmware updates. It wasn't long after I purchased the cameras that the sellers became unresponsive. I do see EmpireTech's store has the Dahua bullet camera that I'd like to try out.

 

[wittaj]

You can always paint them to help blend in as well.

It is good to hear you are also considering better cameras for the IDENTIFY portion.

If you have overlapping coverage, if someone messes with a camera, you get them on camera close LOL.

Most don't. My neighbor has cameras mounted on his fence no further than 4 feet from the public sidewalk and they haven't been touched.

Not all gray market is the same!!!!

I well respected vendor here is @EMPIRETECANDY with Amazon and Ali storefronts.

Andy's cameras are Dahua and Hikvision OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon and AliExpress store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

As long you you buy from the vendor EmpireTech or Loryta on Amazon (or AliExpress), they are Andy cams and Dahua or Hikvision OEM.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua and Hikvision USA authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from a USA authorized dealer.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua and Hikvision website, thus proving they are real Dahua and Hikvision. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 and 49425 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provides cameras to Andy to sell before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...

You do have to be careful with some rebranded cameras purchased from other vendors as they are cameras that are for the Chinese region but have been hacked into English but then are not able to be updated or they will brick. Buying from a reputable source is key to make sure that doesn't happen.

It sounds like it was some of these hacked ones you have purchased!

 

[Mike A.]

@wittaj

Also, all the eves are at about a 20 degree slant, and mounting a turrit or dome camera would look awful if I had to come up with some sort of mounting hack to keep the base level to the ground, so I'm going with all bullet cameras mounted to junction boxes for the added adjustability. There are slanted junction boxes out there, but they don't have enough space to wind up the camera pigtails in, and they have proprietary mounting plates which would complicate things when upgrading cameras.

Other than a PTZ, you don't need to have the base of a turret level with the ground. The ball rotates within the housing to get a level view. Bullets may be better in some locations and in some cases will give you more IR.

 

[looney2ns]

A Dahua 5442 turret will out perform the crap Reolinks all night long.

Don't re-invent the wheel, there are many, many of us that have been there done that, and got the T-shirt. Learn from our past mistakes.

Don't mount cameras higher than 8ft, if you want a chance at getting a good face ID. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.

Don't try to do too much with one camera. Night vision is the all important part.

The human and automobile AI in the 5442 cams when properly setup, is extremely reliable!

You can purchase a used PC on ebay, that is very energy efficient for approx $200 or less if your patient. Look for an elitedesk I5-8500 machine, I just installed one for my daughter, it averages' less than 30 watts.

Study this: Cliff Notes

 

[wittaj]

A couple of other things to keep in mind in this comparison...

It is probably not a true focal length comparison either and that matters (see thread below).

The reolink is a varifocal versus a 2.8mm fixed lens Amcrest.

So with any optical zoom at all, the AI will be better at distance.

The varifocal component may mean that the processor is a little stronger than the Amcrest.

Reolink, Reviews, Deception, DORI / FOV / math matters, or why image comparisons are only part of the story ..

Thanks to @wittaj and thehookup for inspiring some math analysis .. "The Hookup Ranks Budget Cameras under $50" Thread here https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/the-hookup-ranks-budget-cameras-under-50.65638/ I wanted to make a easier thread for me to point people to look at the math, and why DORI...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

@wittaj
I may reconsider EmpireTech. It looks like he does have a camera I want.

After reading the comments here I'm looking at this new model Dahua turret camera:

https://us.dahuasecurity.com/product/8mp-night-color-2-0-network-eyeball-camera-2-8-mm/

@looney2ns - regarding turret cameras, it seems there's a lot of confusion by not just me, but most other people when it comes to mounting turret or dome cameras on angled eves. Thanks for your comment because it made me spend the last half hour poking around again and it seems some turret / dome cameras have 2 adjustment axis, and some have 3 adjustment axis. I've been struggling with trying to figure this out for over a week. I would love to have turret cameras under my eves as they blend in easier and the appearance is so much better than a bullet camera. (Well that's how I feel at least).

Hopefully I got this right and it helps anyone else out there that might be struggling with mounting a camera on a angled/sloped/tiled, whatever you want to call it, surface.
Take a look at these cameras by Reolink:

RLC-822A | 4K 8MP Security Camera with 3X Optical Zoom | Reolink Official

Meet Reolink RLC-822A, a smart PoE IP camera with person/vehicle detection, 3X optical zoom, 4K 8MP Ultra HD, 100ft night vision, and other fantastic features.

reolink.com

You can see they only have two adjustment axis - it can tilt up and down, as well as rotate on the base. Think about this carefully - you can imagine a camera on your fist. If you mount the base on a slant, there's no way that you're going to get a level image.

Now, if you take a look at this turret camera where they demonstrate how to adjust it:



You can see that the design is a ball in socket type. You can actually TWIST the camera left and right clockwise or counterclockwise in the housing "socket". The Reolink has flat sides, and the socket it sits clearly doesn't allow a twisting motion of the camera in the holder.

I think I finally have this right?

If I do, then I think I should go ahead and order the camera I picked out to at least test, and give a full report here after.

@looney2ns Thanks for the tips on the energy efficient PC. I'll be looking to buy something for Blue Iris next year.

 

[wittaj]

Yep the better camera turrets are 3 axis adjustments.

When I put one up I hold the ball close to the angle I want and put the locking sleeve on and then a slight tighten and then final adjustments and lock it down.

Glad to see you are taking the time to listen and learn from us that have made the mistakes lol and are sharing our knowledge to prevent future wasteful spending lol.

 

[Mike A.]

@wittaj
Now, if you take a look at this turret camera where they demonstrate how to adjust it:

Well, that and the Reolink are a mess then. The Dahua's/Hikvision/Axis/etc better cams aren't set up like that. They adjust up/down, left/right, and the ball rotates freely in whatever direction.

The Dahua that you linked to will be good but you will need a decent amount of white light to work best. You can use the built-in illuminators but the result will be kinda meh.

If you don't have white light, then look at the 5442T-ZE 4MP or 5842T cams. Both have IR and with enough light will do color at night (more needed than the one you linked to).

 

[sebastiantombs]

All of the bullet cameras I've ever owned, including a Reolink POS, were able to adjust three ways, up/down, left/right AND rotate on their centerline or axis. With a bullet that is a function of the mounting arm, no magic involved. I still prefer turrets because they are a little lower profile and harder to tamper with because the round surfaces make it harder to grab.

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

@Mike A. I was looking at the 5842T here:

IPC-HDW5842T-ZE-S2

IPC-HDW5842T-ZE-S2

www.dahuasecurity.com

It would be great to go without needing white light or IR. The 5842T has a 1/1.8 sensor, where as the other Dahua

https://us.dahuasecurity.com/product/8mp-night-color-2-0-network-eyeball-camera-2-8-mm/

here has a 1/1.2 sensor with what looks like adjustable brightness warm LEDs. So now I'm torn a bit. Maybe if I can provide my own lighting and get a camera with just IR if I need it, that would be a better option.
Now that I see this cam, I think I'd want a turret with a 1/1.2 sensor, so back to searching around.


@sebastiantombs Thanks for the confirmation! Turret it is!

@wittaj I've blown a ton of $$ of the past 15 years experimenting with cameras. I'd for sure like to get it at least close to right the first time this time around.

 

[wittaj]

Just remember that full color cameras are not magic and cannot defy physics.

We have way too many threads here where someone comes here AFTER said purchase complaining the camera is crap and is useless unless the built-in white light is used.

A great camera used in the wrong place results in poor performance.

They are a great camera and with just a little light are great performers, but they do need light.

If there is ANY concern you don't have enough ambient light AND do not want to run the built-in white LED then you will be better off getting a camera that can see infrared.

And where the light comes from is a factor as well. People get this camera with street lights that give a great color image, but the face of anyone approaching the camera is black because they don't have light facing towards the person. A truly backlit condition would mean needing white light coming from the camera or "behind" it like outside lights over the garage.