Condensation on dome when opening front door

[RobI]

I am getting condensation on the outside of the dome on my Dahua IPC-HDBW4231F-AS whenever I open my front door on a cold day. (It's winter and I'm in New Hampshire)

The warm air hits the camera and temporarily fogs the dome for maybe 5 or 10 seconds. Seems the camera is in the exact path of the air current as it makes a turn out my front door. It's particularly irritating at night because of the built-in IR washing out the image almost totally. I was thinking about the RainEx Interior Glass Anti-Fog stuff that you can put on the inside of your windshield but thought I should check here first.

And no I can’t move the camera. I installed it in the spring during a major renovation and there’s no backsies now.

Any thoughts?

(I attached a stock photo of the camera)

 

[pozzello]

ah, the joy of domes... not helpful, i know. sorry.

some cams have a 'heater' option, but i don't think that one does.

replace with turret/eyeball-style.

 

[RobI]

Trust me I would love a nice turret but it's RIGHT by my front door and according to Andy, that's the least in your face camera with the largest FOV. A fisheye would work nicely if there was one in a turret.

That... and my other half gave me free reign around the house for cams except for the front door. I was told in no uncertain terms, smaller the better, but it needs a great view. *sigh*

 

[pozzello]

somehow add a small (12V) heater circuit (or resistor?) inside the cam to keep the dome warm?
probably only needs a couple watts to minimize the temp differential between the dome and the escaping air from inside.
would need to be able turn it on/off as needed somehow...

sounds complicated. try the rainX...

 

[bp2008]

How would a turret be immune to humid air condensing on it?

 

[nbstl68]

Best solution...go in and out the back door instead. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[pozzello]

you may have a point bp. move the cam.

I guess i was thinking the dome allows for more thermal decoupling from the inside
(where the electronics keep things warmer than ambient) to the outside compared
to a turret style (with a much smaller glass window)...

anyways, i wonder if something like this inside the housing might generate enuf
heat to help? Mini Aluminum PTC Heater Low Power Thermostatic Heat 12 x 8 x 3mm 40 Celsius 712662331926 | eBay

 

[Mr_D]

If the problem is mostly at night when the IR is in use, can you disable the IR and rely on a porch light?

 

[mat200]

I am getting condensation on the outside of the dome on my Dahua IPC-HDBW4231F-AS ..

..
replace with turret/eyeball-style.

Trust me I would love a nice turret but it's RIGHT by my front door and according to Andy, that's the least in your face camera with the largest FOV. ..

Hi @RobI @pozzello

Note: sealed cameras like the turret and bullets can also be subject to humidity issues w/in the camera, and that mini-wedge camera is the smallest form factor available for something like a front door at eye level. I

This is what I would recommend:
More silicon gel packs, be certain to dry out the one already installed.

 

[pozzello]

the issue appears to be instantaneous condensation on the dome due to cold glass hit by warmer humid air from inside the house,
not internal condensation, which is what the gel-packs help with...

and i do like the form factor of the Hik (25xx) mini-domes myself, similar to this little Dahua number...
but domes is domes, and they can have their 'issues'...

 

[mat200]

the issue appears to be instantaneous condensation on the dome due to cold glass hit by warmer humid air from inside the house,
not internal condensation, which is what the gel-packs help with...

and i do like the form factor of the Hik (25xx) mini-domes myself, similar to this little Dahua number...
but domes is domes, and they can have their 'issues'...

Ahhh!! ... hmmm.. then a turret style or bullet would also be problematic as the glass surface would be also hit by the warmer air from inside the house.

Interesting problem,...

 

[tangent]

I was thinking about the RainEx Interior Glass Anti-Fog stuff that you can put on the inside of your windshield but thought I should check here first.

I'd probably try something advertised for snorkeling and scuba diving over RainX. Even johnson's baby shampoo can be used as an anti foging agent. Used in moderation, I think most of the options should be pretty safe choices. The condensation is on the OUTSIDE of the dome not the inside right?

Do you have a photo showing the camera's position relative to the door?

 

[TonyR]

the issue appears to be instantaneous condensation on the dome due to cold glass hit by warmer humid air from inside the house, not internal condensation, which is what the gel-packs help with...

I would agree that's more likely the case.

I'd probably try something advertised for snorkeling and scuba diving over RainX. Even johnson's baby shampoo can be used as an anti foging agent. Used in moderation, I think most of the options should be pretty safe choices.

Easy and quick. Would be my first choice.

If all else fails, @pozzello 's little heater idea might be the ticket.

 

[CCTVCam]

I doubt you'll get a good picture with RainX. Although they have altered the formula since I last used it on car windscreens, it used to be very smeary. I'd also be concerned with fogging for the longetivity of your camera. Even if you displace the moisture, you still have moisture inside of the camera. That can't be good for electronics surely unless they're hermatically sealed behind the lens. Have you considered trying to shield the camera from the warm air? If I'm understanding your set up right, the rear of the dome will be facing the door with the lens facing outwards. Couldn't you screw or mount something eg wood behind the camera and between the door so the air goes around it rather than onto the rear of the dome? Could be something decorative if you couldn't make a piece of wood look right. However, the simple path of blocking the air flow to the rear of the dome, could possibly solve your issues without causing any lens smearing issues.

 

[tangent]

I doubt you'll get a good picture with RainX. Although they have altered the formula since I last used it on car windscreens, it used to be very smeary. I'd also be concerned with fogging for the longetivity of your camera. Even if you displace the moisture, you still have moisture inside of the camera. That can't be good for electronics surely unless they're hermatically sealed behind the lens. Have you considered trying to shield the camera from the warm air? If I'm understanding your set up right, the rear of the dome will be facing the door with the lens facing outwards. Couldn't you screw or mount something eg wood behind the camera and between the door so the air goes around it rather than onto the rear of the dome? Could be something decorative if you couldn't make a piece of wood look right. However, the simple path of blocking the air flow to the rear of the dome, could possibly solve your issues without causing any lens smearing issues.

I'm not sure it's been established if the condensation is inside or outside of the dome, my suggestion was for something that could be applied to the outside. If it's inside, open the camera up replace the desiccant and try to make sure the camera is sealed well when you put it back together.

If it's on the outside try something other than rain-x as an anti fog agent.

edit:

I am getting condensation on the outside of the dome on my Dahua IPC-HDBW4231F-AS whenever I open my front door on a cold day. (It's winter and I'm in New Hampshire)

 

[TonyR]

Anyone who wears eyeglasses outside in the cold winter for more than a few minutes and then walks into a house that's heated with propane gas has had their glasses fog up so quickly and so completely that they've had to remove them in order to see has experienced the same thing.

Simple. The eyeglasses get very cold. The propane combustion adds LOTS of moisture to the air inside the house...much more than is outside in the cold, dry air. The moist inside air hits the cold lens of the glasses and ..ta da! ...fog on the OUTSIDE of the lens.

The only difference I see is the cold eyeglasses are introduced to the moist environment and with the cold camera, the moist environment is introduced to it.

 

[CCTVCam]

The issue I see with most rain repellents though is they don't stop fogging so much as sheet the water so it's not droplets but a film. I believe Rain X used to be silicon based and smeary although as I said above, I believe the formula has now changed. There are many hydrophobic coatings out there that use nanotechnology that are used on car glass to repel water droplets - I've used many of these myself with varying results. However the issue with all of them is they sheet the water and even a water film will bend light and thus distort a picture, albeit with condensation there's far less water in smaller droplets than rain. I can't see it leaving the dome optically perfect though. If indeed the water is on the outside of the dome, then it sounds as though a heater may be the answer as the one way to stop the water droplets from condensing out is to ensure the moist air doesn't hit a cold surface. I probably initially mis-interpreted above as I believed the condensation was inside the dome.

Equally though, some suggested a turret and this might help if the lens is facing away from the door as with a dome the moist air will hit the dome and spread over it's whole surface causing the fogging whereas with a turret, it will hit the backside of the camera housing which should given the lens on the front is flat, help shield the lens area. That said, it's far cheaper to install a heater or a coating than change a camera. Maybe a consideration for when it needs changing though.

 

[J Sigmo]

Since the domes on most cameras are plastic, I would be very careful using anything on them without testing somehow. Various anti fog or rain sheeting preparations contain solvents that may attack certain plastics.

This is apparently condensation forming on the outside of the cold dome when it is exposed to warm moist air.

An anti-fog preparation that is plastic-safe may help. But be sure it is safe for the particular plastic from which your dome was made.

The recommendation to warm the dome could be very helpful. But it should be thermostatically controlled so the camera doesn't get cooked, especially in warmer weather.

But how long does the fogging last? It seems like if it is only for a short time, and only when you open that door, maybe it doesn't matter.

 

[RobI]

Thank you for the replies folks. Let me try to clear some things up so there is no confusion.

The condensation/fogging is on the OUTSIDE of the dome. There is no moisture on the inside of the camera.

The fogging lasts 5 to 10 seconds as I said in the first post.

It does matter. This is my front door camera. The whole point of the camera is to observe someone in front of my door so therefore the lens needs to be in the general direction facing the door. If someone greets a guest and opens the door, the camera is temporarily blinded and said "event" could happen basically unobserved. It also fogs and obscures the view in the daytime, though you are able to see slightly more detail, as in a human-shaped blob vs at night when its a near total whiteout. What's interesting is my Ring doorbell is unaffected. It's on the opposite side of the door and 'upwind' so the hot humid air does not hit it. And by hot and humid I mean 70F and ~45% relative.

The camera is located on the soffit next to the front door. See the attached horrible sketch I did in MS paint just now. The distance from the top corner of the door to the camera is maybe 1 foot so it's right there. My goal was to get the most detailed view of my front door as possible. I'm a tech/engineering/do-everything guy and did all the wiring and renovation work myself. I can tell you with absolute certainty, there NO other place to put this camera. I tried all combinations before I sealed it all up. Not to be mean about it but my query is about fogging, not camera placement. I can't do anything about it now.

I'm totally open to other camera suggestions so long as it's relatively small and have a wide FOV like what is there now H: 110°, V:58°. I'd even prefer something wider because of the approach to the front door. I can take another Dahua turret from somewhere else and see if it does the same thing but they are the normal big Dahua turrets so not a permanent solution.

I understand about hydrophobic coatings which is why the anti-fog spray came to mind. I noticed it at Walmart when I bought washer fluid the other weekend. I work in the semiconductor industry and have access to a wide variety of industrial chemicals and compounds. I've seen my share of bad reactions which is why I didn't want to go experimenting on my sort of pricy personal camera. It's not like my lab where I could buy a hundred spare domes of them and test to my heart's content. I mean I could, but the boss might say something.

Let me also add that before I went all Dahua, I had a 'lower end' consumer grade camera in the same location for a couple winters that did not have this issue. Maybe that one ran colder than the Dahua.

With all the cameras out there in all the world, I can't be the only person who has their front door cam fog up.

 

[J Sigmo]

I don't have this issue due to wind here. You need to install a fan to blow cold, dry, ambient outdoor air across the camera at all times to keep the warm moist indoor air from wafting up onto the camera!