Critique my design

[usernameismyusername]

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could get a second opinion on the design I have so far come up with and answer the questions I have below?

So I am buying a currently being built house and I have the opportunity to run cables wherever I like. Due to this I am going to install CCTV and I believe I require 6 IP cameras to ensure as close to 360 degree coverage as possible.

I was considering buying the Hikvision DS-2CD2185FWD-I cameras as my camera of choice. My reasoning behind choosing this camera is primarily because it is newer over my second choice of camera the Hikvision DS-2CD2142FWD-I. The cameras will be powered by a 48 port Cisco Switch (WS-C3560G-48PS-S).

I believe I require three 2.8mm and three 4.0mm lens lengths. I’ve based this on the information for the DS-2CD2185FWD-I camera from the specification page here and my totally expert graphic design skills in my design below. I've included the appropriate angles for the specific camera on the design below.

• 2.8 mm, horizontal field of view: 102°
• 4 mm, horizontal field of view: 79°

As the house isn’t yet built I have no way to provide pictures to assist in helping get my point across. I do, however, have some simple plans of the house which I have linked below. The house is set on a development with street lighting (of course I am not sure where) and thus I do not believe night lighting will be an issue.

An explanation of the colouring:

• Yellow building is the garage which is 6m long
• Green section is a one storey extension
• Blue section is a porch area

Here’s a breakdown of the cameras:

• Camera 1 – 2.8mm lens length
• Camera 2 – 2.8 mm lens length, placed within porch area
• Camera 3 – 2.8 mm lens length, placed on the gable wall facing the ground
• Camera 4 – 4mm lens length
• Camera 5 – 4mm lens length
• Camera 6 – 4mm lens length

My questions are as follows:

1. Is my design correct?
2. If not is there anything I should correct?
3. Will the DS-2CD2185FWD-I cameras serve me well in this situation?
4. Where can I buy these cameras in the UK? I have found them on eBay but I am concerned regarding ‘grey market’ devices. Everywhere I have looked outside of the likes of eBay wants you to sign up as a trades account – Hikvision wants you to get these cameras legitimately but when I try to do so I’m finding it difficult.

Thanks in advance all.

 

[mat200]

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could get a second opinion on the design I have so far come up with and answer the questions I have below?

So I am buying a currently being built house and I have the opportunity to run cables wherever I like. Due to this I am going to install CCTV and I believe I require 6 IP cameras to ensure as close to 360 degree coverage as possible.

1. ..
2. 
   
3. 
   
4. Where can I buy these cameras in the UK? I have found them on eBay but I am concerned regarding ‘grey market’ devices. Everywhere I have looked outside of the likes of eBay wants you to sign up as a trades account – Hikvision wants you to get these cameras legitimately but when I try to do so I’m finding it difficult.

Thanks in advance all.

Welcome username

You're at a great stage to do quality cabling easily now.

Plan to over cable! I recommend running N+1+ cables to each location you think you want a cable - indoors and out.

Do take a look at the notes here
IPCamTalk WiKi | IP Cam Talk

as well as the notes I have been assembling.
Looking for some advice and direction!

In terms of sourcing, a lot of us are having to go to the grey market to get the models we need. Do take some care when finding a source and see if you can find a reliable source which is recommended by members here. ( perhaps checking the Hikvision section of the forum, I went with Dahua OEM cameras myself as I needed quality low light cameras which were not yet available from Hikvision when I was looking for them.)

Have fun getting it all setup

 

[trucams]

Turn c4 toward the street/kerb edge. Add a cam between c1 and c2 pointing at the garage from the porch area..

 

[usernameismyusername]

Welcome username

You're at a great stage to do quality cabling easily now.

Plan to over cable! I recommend running N+1+ cables to each location you think you want a cable - indoors and out.

Do take a look at the notes here
IPCamTalk WiKi | IP Cam Talk

as well as the notes I have been assembling.
Looking for some advice and direction!

In terms of sourcing, a lot of us are having to go to the grey market to get the models we need. Do take some care when finding a source and see if you can find a reliable source which is recommended by members here. ( perhaps checking the Hikvision section of the forum, I went with Dahua OEM cameras myself as I needed quality low light cameras which were not yet available from Hikvision when I was looking for them.)

Have fun getting it all setup

Thanks for your response mat200. I am hoping that I can strike a deal with the electrician, as I have a box of solid cat5e left over from the wiring of a family members house, that if I give him my left over cable he won't charge me for pulling an extra cable to my selected locations considering he's already doing it. A box of beer although will be in order if he agrees.

With regards to the sourcing I have checked the Hikvision section of the forum and I cannot find a thread which details vendors. There is this however I'm keen on actually getting a UK seller so that I can benefit from the warranty.

Turn c4 toward the street/kerb edge. Add a cam between c1 and c2 pointing at the garage from the porch area..

Thanks for your feedback trucams. I was going to do this however along the porch are pillars which may obstruct the view of the camera whereas c4 will be up high on the second storey of the house unobstructed by any pillars. I suppose what I could do, if the ability to run a cable there allows, instead of adding an extra camera is to move c3 to the top right hand corner of the house (where the tree is) facing southwards to take in that side of the house and the beginning of the drive way. What do you think?

 

[trucams]

C3 at 2.8mm will be good for wide-angle/close identification. Other than that, it is only going to give you an "overview" shot. If that is all you are looking for, an overview and not identification, leave it but do realize the limitation. I recommended spinning C4 because that is going to be your general approach by others, on foot or by car and more straight on than relocating C3 as you noted because of the angle it will have (no license plates or straight on face shots). The garage will be the next likely target, after the house. Your layout pretty much leaves it not covered, other than from a far distance IF you leave C4 as is (which leaves the approach not covered for a direct shot). Figure out a way to put a camera on the garage. Since the house is being built, maybe consider running two lines via buried conduit over to the garage. Even if you do not connect them now, it would allow for the addition of a camera directly down the driveway and potentially one on the west corner, facing north across the back yard. If the yard is a mess now, it would be the time to do it if possible! C6 is going to have a lot of wasted angle between the wall and the neighboring property. You can probably go with a longer reach camera than a 4mm and turn it to corridor mode. It should cover the narrow side better that way at more of a distance. If you have not, try to mock up the property using IPVM Camera Calculator V3 to see what the cameras actually will cover with the angles for them and what the comparable identification distance might be. The program allows for one camera placement at a time without subscription. Place -screenshot -save -repeat.

 

[mat200]

.. Since the house is being built, maybe consider running two lines via buried conduit over to the garage. .. If you have not, try to mock up the property using IPVM Camera Calculator V3 to see what the cameras actually will cover with the angles for them and what the comparable identification distance might be. ...

@usernameismyusername Trucams has some great recommendations! Definitely give those a try.

W/ regards to finding vendors - in the USA we also have that issue for Dahua OEM products. Many of us have decided that it is more cost effective to buy international models of cameras at a savings and deal with the typical customer support issues within our forum ( configuration setup, etc ). If you purchase from some quality vendors they've already tested the cameras they are shipping, and will warranty any DOA cameras. We do have one such vendor which is well liked and recommended for Dahua OEM products, and some of the camera models preferred are not even available in the USA. ( in particular the varifocal 2mp starlight model )
( if you are interested in Dahua OEM international models, the vendor's info is listed in #15 of my notes Looking for some advice and direction! )

Note - for Hikvision OEM products in the USA there is a quality vendor, you can look for Nelly's Security here on the forum. Good reputation for customer service.

 

[Fastb]

usernameismyusername,
Welcome to the forum!
Plz read the documents that mat200 recommended. You're new here (not a criticism), but your newbie questions aren't unique. Every newbie starts at the bottom of the steep learning curve.

Some quick thoughts about your plans (besides what's already been offered in the docs mat200 pointed you towards)
1) As newbie, I bought 2.8 mm cams. I wanted a wide angle view, to "see everything"
--- I learned the hard way, if you see "wide", you don't get detail when looking "long"
--- My lesson learned: outdoors, a 2.8mm lens can be a nice "overview" cam, to see the yard. It can show "what happened" but not identify "who did it", unless they're within 10 ft of the cam. And even closer at night.
---- You don't need to buy all your cams at the same time. Maybe buy a 2.4 and 4mm. And a varifocal.
---- As a newbie, I was unaware of "nighttime performance".
2) Most of your cam locations in the diagram seem to be "overview" cams, IMHO. It seems your goal is to cover as much exterior as possible (except C4 - C6)
--- Consider some "choke point" cams to capture video as someone enters/leaves thru a choke point like gate, walkway, etc.
3) You're planning on 6 cams right now. For future proof, buy a system that can handle more. Many, many people add more cams after the fact. It doesn't cost much more to buy system that can support more cams.
4) Cam height: You didn't mention, but don't mount too high. You want to see people's faces, not their bald spot.
5) Test Rig: Buy a system now, and start experimenting before construction is finished. Stick a cam on a 2x4, and check video images.
---- Learn now. Avoid camera relocation, which is very, very common after people see what their cam system actually captures.
6) Run more wires now, even to locations you think might not need a cam. It's way cheaper now. Buy them lots of beer. It's the labor that's $$, not the cat6 wire.
7) detached garage: Ideal is 2" buried conduit to house, to pull wires in the future. Now, install AC wiring and multiple CAT6 wires.
8) Decide where the system will reside. All those cams have to be wired back to a location.
9) Do hard thinking about your objectives. Yes, surveillance cams are nice. But they're not a substitute for an alarm system.
10) Security considerations:
--- If the driveway hasn't been poured, consider a vehicle detector (magnetic sensor) to alert you when a vehicle arrives. It can trip an "event" and send you and email with snapshot.
---- Consider a switch on your mailbox, for the same purpose.
---- Consider a PIR+Radar sensor to detect arrivals. They work night and day and have few false alarms.

In closing, often the most expensive aspect of adding cams and security to an existing house is the cost of pulling wire. Drilling holes, sheetrocl work, maybe trenching outside, is often more expensive than the cams, cable, and NVR added together.

With building a new home, you're at a sweet spot. Run cables. Install conduit. Future proof. Avoid playing the "Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda" game later.
And use the "search" feature on the forum. There's a wealth of info there, from newbies who asked questions before you...

Have fun! And Welcome to the Forum!

Fastb

 

[looney2ns]

Be sure to use Solid Copper Ethernet from a verified good source, and not CCA, copper clad aluminum.
Use the rule of twos, if you think you need one camera at a location, pull two or three cables to that location. You may want to add another camera or inferred illumination.
You want to know who did it, not just what happened.

 

[aristobrat]

There is this however I'm keen on actually getting a UK seller so that I can benefit from the warranty.

Make sure you nail down how the warranty works with whomever you buy from. You will likely be dealing with them for warranty/support, not Hikvision directly (as Hik and Dahua don't like directly supporting consumers for these professional-level cameras).

 

[usernameismyusername]

Thanks for your responses all. I am going to create another revision in the next few days to gain further feedback.

 

[usernameismyusername]

So,

Firstly, I think I was being a little ambitious with regards to the cameras I first selected. I feel that the Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-ZE will be much more forgiving in my scenario allowing me to fine tune the camera to get the most optimal picture what with its varifocal lens. I am not aware of where the street lights will be so I cannot and shouldn't have said that there will be enough light to fill an 8 mega pixel sensor and as such the reason why I have changed my mind to the IPC-HDW5231R-ZE model. I suppose additionally what if the street lights aren't working? There's a flaw in my system that it cannot handle without changing the cameras. I'd rather do this right and do it right first time.

Secondly all of my cameras were going to be placed up high. High as in on the second floor high. Again this is a critical flaw that needs to be addressed. I have attached further plans and locations of the cameras I would be grateful if you could provide further feedback?

• C1 - Covers front door
• C2 - Covers entrance to drive way
• C3 - Covers rear door and side of house
• C4 - Covers patio door
• C5 - Covers rear garden and side entrance to garage
• C6 - Covers driveway and entrance to garage

 

[mat200]

So, ...

Hi Username,

Looks much better than 2nd story mounted cameras.

By the door - I like to have a face level camera also - to maximize the chance of a good ID image.
Thus I would recommend bringing at least 2x cat6/5e cables to by the front door and back door.