Dahua best cam 2021? (Now 2023!)

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Sunfox

Getting the hang of it
Aug 5, 2018
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Ontario, Canada
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A couple years ago, I built a Dahua system using HDW5231R-ZE for “premium” locations and HDW2231R-ZS for “budget” locations. The image quality between those two is pretty much identical, I just get more stream options plus audio on the 5 series.

Right now, I know the T5422 is the recommended model. For me, the IPC-T5442TM-AS 2.8mm as I do not use the VariFocal on my current cams other than to set once for maximum wideangle.

But, I have some questions:

1) Is there a “budget” version of the T5442 with the same image quality, particularly at night with only the built in IR as illumination?

2) Is there a full 4K (8MP) camera with similar nighttime performance yet?

3) Are there any outdoor mini turrets with IR and audio mic?

Thanks!
 
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I'd ask why do you use the 2.8 focal length? It's certainly appropriate in some situations, but more often than not, people use that focal length because they believe that seeing a wide viewing angle is better. Unfortunately, the wider the viewing angle the closer a person has to be from the camera in order to be able to identify them. We call this DORI. See this part of the wiki for more information: IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes

I would suggest using the IPVM calculator (IPVM Camera Calculator V3) and entering in your desired cameras and checking the PPF (pixels per face) of the cameras at the distances that you expect the to need to identify people from. (Just be sure to adjust your camera mounting height and viewing height located in the "blind spot" section of the calculator to be accurate and not just the default setting). I think you will be shocked at the results. You really need to have a PPF of 75 or better (perhaps closer to 150 PPF with a nightime IR image) in order to have good images that can be used for identification and not just show a image of a person that lacks any detail.

I suspect that you are looking for "low light performance" and higher resolution cameras in an effort to increase PPF to a usable level. You just don't realize that your issue is really PPF. I think you will ultimately need to change cameras (or at least your existing camera's field of view if it is variable). Not to chase resolution, but to get cameras that have a narrower field of view which will increase the PPF to levels where you can actually identify people.

In the end I think you will find that using more cameras that each cover a narrower field of view will result in more usable footage than a few high resolution cameras. Not only will the result be better, but it may not cost any more money to do it right. That's because 4k or 8k cameras are more expensive than their 4mp counterparts (assuming equal nighttime performance). Even if you need a higher number of 4mp cameras, it may be less expensive than fewer 4/8k cameras and will likely result in an overall system that is better at meeting you goals too.
 
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Thanks for the response. I guess that describing my situation would be beneficial.

The current cameras (8 of them) are installed outside my rural-ish home, under the eaves, which is about 17-18 feet off the ground.

While they are used for security purposes, they’re more often used to watch deer or coyotes, figure out “what made those tracks”, keep an eye on my dogs in their pen, and monitor delivery guys. While facial ID kind of resolution would of course be nice, I’m not sure it’s feasible to reduce field of view and not create blind spots, without doubling the number of cameras I have. So I’m honestly okay not chasing a usable ID, butI do want to see what’s going on.

My need for IR/nighttime performance is because there is NO ambient light aound whatsoever. No streetlights, no outdoor lights on all night.
 
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Check out the 8MP DS-2CD2T87G2-L ColourVu Fixed Bullet Network Camera Pro Series on paper wipes the floor with the T5442 . they also do a MINI BULLET same sensor 1/1.2″ and F1:0 lens and built in MIc.

Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS has a smaller 1/1.8" Sensor and F1:6 Aperture.
 
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You will quickly be disappointed in 2.8mm cameras, especially at night and at that height and with no ambient light. You will only see that something happened, not who. You will only see tops of heads. But you said that is ok with you, just wanted you to be aware.

Too many people get fascinated with 4K and the wide angle views that 2.8mm and other "all in one units" and such can provide and chase megapixels. But the picture is really no different than taking a pic from the same place with a cell phone - take that picture and then zoom in and it is a pixelated mess. At night, a 4K camera will be even worse, even with a 1/1.8" sensor and no ambient light. You do not want more than 4MP with the current 1/1.8" sensors.

You would be shocked how close someone needs to be to a 2.8 lens in order to ID them.

Look at this chart below - the person would need to be within 13 feet to recognize them with a 2.8mm lens. As I tell my neighbors with their 2.8 mm cams on their house saying they can recognize people at the street, I am like that is only possible if you already know the person and be able to recognize them based on their walk, clothing, body type, etc., but put a total stranger in the frame and the picture will be fairly useless. I recognize most of the people I see on my 2.8mm overview cam, but a total stranger goes by and not much you could tell the police, maybe clothing color, but nothing to identify them.


1604638118196.png


And you will see because of that small lens size, that if you digital zoom, it is a pixel blurry mess real fast.

I would suggest only purchase one and see if you see an appreciable difference. At those heights and a 2.8mm lens I do not think you would see an appreciable improvement, especially not enough to replace all 8 current cameras you have.

You would probably be better served adding additional IR light instead.
 
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Here was a side-by-side someone did of an 8MP versus 4MP cam and this was from probably 9-10 feet high. You can see and decide if you think an upgrade is worth the cost.

IPC-T2831T-ZS 8MP vs 2MP

You think wrong. Get one and try it.
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
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This is old comparisons how about a comparison with a New Sensor 8mp 1/1.2" sensor compared to a old 4mp 1/1.8" Sensor along with a F1.6 lens apposed to a new F1:0 lens.
 
ljw2k said:
Check out the 8MP DS-2CD2T87G2-L ColourVu Fixed Bullet Network Camera Pro Series on paper wipes the floor with the T5442 . they also do a MINI BULLET same sensor 1/1.2″ and F1:0 lens and built in MIc.

Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS has a smaller 1/1.8" Sensor and F1:6 Aperture.
Click to expand...

Is there video of this camera ? With 1/1.2 sensor it should be very good. How much are they?

HiK makes good stuff, but both companies seem to alternate back and forth year over year with "better" low light sensors and performance.

A more fair comparison would be the Dahua HFW-5442T-ASE-NI
IPC-HFW5442T-ASE-NI
or the HFW5442T-AS-LED model
 
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Ok yeah I think I saw that. Very impressive. Do you think it’s in the $200 range or $400 range? I can’t seem to find one for sale

Would also like to try one of these, though unlike the HiK its a variable focus and the fixed lens is always a bit more light sensitive
IPC-HFW7842H-Z
 
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Well I'm in UK and the price is around £179 but I am waiting till they have stock of Hikvision DS-2CD2087G2-LU 8MP 4K AcuSense ColorVu which is much smaller and built ion MIC at around £113
 
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steve457 said:
Another thing to note is that 2.8mm on the 5231 is more like 3.6mm on the 5442 due to the larger sensor size. I noticed this as I just replaced one of my 5231's with a 5442.
Click to expand...

Ah... this is interesting. Makes me think I should be going 3.6mm to get a similar field of view, or VariFocal.
 
Well, according to IPVM the 1/2.8“ 2.7mm cameras I currently have are 101 degrees FOV, while 1/1.8” with 2.8mm is 113 degrees, and 3.6mm is 89 degrees. So, either 12 degrees more, or less.
 
ljw2k said:
Well I'm in UK and the price is around £179 but I am waiting till they have stock of Hikvision DS-2CD2087G2-LU 8MP 4K AcuSense ColorVu which is much smaller and built ion MIC at around £113
Click to expand...
Hello ljw2k, I am willing to take a punt on one of these 4k cameras you are promoting :) and I will put it against the Lorex 4k cameras I have plus IPC-HFW5442E-Z4E cameras and post some footage. If I don't like it, I have feasibility to send it back, so it's a punt I am willing to take. Please advise the exact model no. I should try and obtain that is being proposed could out perform a IPC-HFW5442E-Z4E if viable please. I am in UK also
but I am not sure if it would be better obtaining from a supplier in UK or a Vendor of the forum ?. I also assume I could run Hikvision cameras from a Dahua NVR ?. Thank you
 
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A variable focus is always going to be slightly less low light sensitive than a fixed lens given the same or similar sensor.
 
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wittaj said:
You will quickly be disappointed in 2.8mm cameras, especially at night and at that height and with no ambient light. You will only see that something happened, not who. You will only see tops of heads. But you said that is ok with you, just wanted you to be aware.

Too many people get fascinated with 4K and the wide angle views that 2.8mm and other "all in one units" and such can provide and chase megapixels. But the picture is really no different than taking a pic from the same place with a cell phone - take that picture and then zoom in and it is a pixelated mess. At night, a 4K camera will be even worse, even with a 1/1.8" sensor and no ambient light. You do not want more than 4MP with the current 1/1.8" sensors.

You would be shocked how close someone needs to be to a 2.8 lens in order to ID them.

Look at this chart below - the person would need to be within 13 feet to recognize them with a 2.8mm lens. As I tell my neighbors with their 2.8 mm cams on their house saying they can recognize people at the street, I am like that is only possible if you already know the person and be able to recognize them based on their walk, clothing, body type, etc., but put a total stranger in the frame and the picture will be fairly useless. I recognize most of the people I see on my 2.8mm overview cam, but a total stranger goes by and not much you could tell the police, maybe clothing color, but nothing to identify them.


1604638118196.png


And you will see because of that small lens size, that if you digital zoom, it is a pixel blurry mess real fast.

I would suggest only purchase one and see if you see an appreciable difference. At those heights and a 2.8mm lens I do not think you would see an appreciable improvement, especially not enough to replace all 8 current cameras you have.

You would probably be better served adding additional IR light instead.
Click to expand...
I agree too many people are fascinated with 4K and Wide Angle, but I would also argue that the above table is way too out dated, and should be updated for 4MP and 8MP.
4K just has so much more detail but yes to focus on the foreground and background you have to sacrifice quality there is just no way around this, so I agree people miss this point.
But I would also say, that with the new sensors and cams like the ColorVu from Hikvision, 4k Low Light Night Footage is absolutely real and have not seen anything from Dahua even remotely close.

Either way your point about most people will be disappointed with 2.8mm is so on the money. Unless it's for a tightly controlled space and the subject is close.
 
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spammenotinoz said:
I agree too many people are fascinated with 4K and Wide Angle, but I would also argue that the above table is way too out dated, and should be updated for 4MP and 8MP.
4K just has so much more detail but yes to focus on the foreground and background you have to sacrifice quality there is just no way around this, so I agree people miss this point.
But I would also say, that with the new sensors and cams like the ColorVu from Hikvision, 4k Low Light Night Footage is absolutely real and have not seen anything from Dahua even remotely close.

Either way your point about most people will be disappointed with 2.8mm is so on the money. Unless it's for a tightly controlled space and the subject is close.
Click to expand...
Hello, I can only get the Hikvision in 2.8 at the moment in UK, supplier said 4 they may be getting in at later date. I see a thread mentioning new Dahua cameras yesterday so I think maybe I should hold of buying any more cameras until new Dahua cameras are out and tested. Ideal is clearly a 4 or 6mm good Colour Night
 
ljw2k said:
IPC-HFW5442T-ASE-NI is 4mp with a 1/1.8" sensor the 8MP DS-2CD2T87G2-L is 8mp 4k with a 1/1.2" sensor so I would say pretty close till you start to zoom in a little is where the 8mp will win win for detail and impressed with how little motion blur with the settings shown.

(2) Hikvision 8MP ColourVu Camera Day & Night Footage Review - YouTube
Click to expand...


I'd say a 4mp 1/1.2" is still the way to go. I just looked at this in another thread. In terms of individual pixel size and thus low light sensitivity, an 8mp 1/1.2" should be around the same as a 4mp 1/1.8" for pixel size, leaving the 4mp 1/1.2 a clear winner (4mp 1/1.2" = 4 million pixels over an 85mm2 die. 8mp = 8 million pixels over the same 85mm2 die. In terms of pixel size therefore, the pixel size must be approximately halved to get double the number on the same die making the 8mp the equivalent to approximately 4mp over 42mm2 die. The nearest to this is the 1/1.8" sensor which has 4 mp over a 38mm2 die. So I would expect perfomance simialr to a 4mp 1/1.8" sensor).

If you want the next level low light performance, I believe the 1/1.2" 4mp is the way to go, at least until we get 35mm sensors!
 
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