I'm with you there. I've got 5 varifocals, but after getting two of them zoomed in perfectly, they might as well have been 3.6mm fixed lenses.
hmjgriffon
Known around here
I'm with you there. I've got 5 varifocals, but after getting two of them zoomed in perfectly, they might as well have been 3.6mm fixed lenses.
may as well, yeah, when it comes to 2mp, you need every pixel you can get, I prefer to be able to fine tune the zoom on my cameras so I'm not wasting pixels on walls and shit lol it's worth the extra 50 bucks if for no other reason than to A, remove the guess work and B, allow you to set the zoom exactly where you want it instead of settling for pretty good. if you're gonna go through the trouble of buying all this stuff and setting it up, why settle for mediocre.
just some dude
Pulling my weight
- Feb 23, 2017
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I'm not settling for mediocre or pretty good. If that was the case, I'd have bought a junk system from a warehouse clubI've planned and researched. I'm sure every install is different and if you don't plan and research, yup, go with varifocals all around, especially if $ is no object.
@hmjgriffon
I'm just saying that for folks that have done their homework, being able to fine-tune shots of cameras used in situations like 'backyard overview' may not be worth the extra $55, especially when that money could go towards the other four cameras they need to buy.
To me, it sounds like he did his homework and bought what was best for his situation.
FWIW, here's what the zoom on my backyard overview camera looks like. If I have a future need for another varifocal, I'll probably buy a cheaper 2.8mm fixed lens to replace this varifocal, and move this varifocal to wherever the new need is.
I'm just saying that for folks that have done their homework, being able to fine-tune shots of cameras used in situations like 'backyard overview' may not be worth the extra $55, especially when that money could go towards the other four cameras they need to buy.
To me, it sounds like he did his homework and bought what was best for his situation.
FWIW, here's what the zoom on my backyard overview camera looks like. If I have a future need for another varifocal, I'll probably buy a cheaper 2.8mm fixed lens to replace this varifocal, and move this varifocal to wherever the new need is.
hmjgriffon
Known around here
for overview, I agree, but then I was specifically talking about shots where every pixel counts, choke points, where you want the best ID you can, if you get lucky and get it in the shot. For overview, you could use cheap ass analog cameras I suppose it's obviously not as important since your pixel density is going to suck ass anyways. It's just funny cuz we all know, you aint savin any money in this hobby, let's just be honest about that right up front LOL.
I also would like to order all the cameras I need in one shot, but it definitely would not go over well with my wife either. It is an expensive hobby. I think a lot of us got into this for one reason or another, a bad experience.
In my case my property was vandalized multiple times, Christmas lights cut, air let out of my tires; I was confident it was my neighbor, but I needed to prove it. Being an IT guy I turned to tech, but the IP cameras were too expensive in 2012 so I went with analog. The first week when we aren't home catch him park on the street to restrict the view, he looks left, looks right and goes right up the middle of my yard and stares into the camera from 6 feet away, sees it and scurrys right out of there. Police give me the option of having him arrested, and anyone new to this learn from my mistake: I said no. These are your neighbors, I don't want to start WWIII here, I just want the bad behavior to stop. They never vandalized my property again, but they continued to escalate. They stood on the street and paced back and forth pretending to shoot into my house when we weren't home. They were holding what looked like a pistol, they claimed it wasn't. My kids were 2 and 4. Police said it wasn't illegal for them to do that and regardless of their actions, haven't offered to take any action since. I have hours of video to show their behavior in case it's ever needed in court. Luckily things have been fairly quiet the last two years; Hopefully it stays as it is right now, but the cameras will be there, just in case... but I digress.
So right after I spend the money on the analog cameras, capture card and add it to my server (which I already had), those first cheap 720p Dahuas came out. I replaced the analog with those (and a rack mount POE injector) and said to my wife "we now have 720p IP cameras, we won't need to upgrade again anytime soon".
Then I had a couple of them fail (I suspect it was because they were rated to only 14 degrees and it gets much colder than that here in winter), and saw the Hiks had come out and were rated to -22 and 1080p, and I liked the turret for two of my locations so I upgraded. I told my wife "we are at 1080p, we won't be upgrading again any time soon".
Then I decided I needed to end all the videos of bugs all night during the summer so I added some external IR.
At some point I began to feel limited by Blue Iris and went to an Enterprise VMS solution.
Then I replaced two of my cameras with one PTZ.
Then as my kids became older I wanted better coverage from when they are outside playing in the street, and I also wanted a camera for LPR, which I will get as soon as Andy get's one of the Z12 cameras in.
This year I'll now have 4k, Starlight or PTZ and a license plate camera all around the property. I want to do some automation like nayr and some of you are, but I don't like the home automation software I've seen. I don't see why I can't just use SaltStack since I'm familiar with it anyway. I'll just throw a Salt master in a Docker container.
So after this spring, I can now, finally, definitely say "We are all set, we won't be upgrading again anytime soon"... Until I see the next post about new cameras and nayr's review. Sigh.
hmjgriffon
Known around here
The thing is this is such a common noobie mistake; unless you put it right next to an entry way this thing at full wide dont have the pixel density to ID anyone at any distance.. Go learn how to use: Camera Calculator / Design Software and keep PPF > 100 for ID capabilities..
Most people buy fixed wide angle cameras; put them up all over the place outside.. then someone comes and steals there shit, and they can watch it on just about every camera they have.. but none of em came close to getting a shot that provides a legal ID.. soo you learn the hard way later that all your wide angle cameras are pretty much worthless and your only option is: go in and start utilizing that zoom, but if you dont have a Varifocal.. then your looking at replacing most of your 3.6mm cameras with 6-12mm cameras.
Wide Angle cameras outside have absolutely terrible ID Capable ranges; your better off having a bunch of blindspots and a few zoomed cameras on choke points and high value targets than having a bunch of wide angles so you can watch grass grow and walls stand.. I suspect that many of you running these Varifocals at wide angle will one day learn the lesson the hard way, and you'll have the option of fixing it instead of buying new cameras with moar zoom.
Not one of my Varifocals is less than 50% zoomed; most are maxed out at 100% wishing they were Z5's with even more room to work with.
wantafastz28
Getting comfortable
just some dude
Pulling my weight
- Feb 23, 2017
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I agree, I'm not interested in ID with my two 3.6mm, that's what the varifocals are for. And I did use the calculator and saw the effects of the different lens options (enlightening). NAYR, I respect your reviews and insight, that's what led me to order four starlights, two of which are varifocals, and the desire for a few 6mm starlight fixed. NAYR, thanks for all that you contribute to this forum!
TechBill
Known around here
- Nov 1, 2014
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While nayr made some excellent points but I went wide in my backyard for several reasons.
The cost of per camera is one of the reason, with 4 fixed ones in the backyard are giving me whole backyard coverage that there is almost no blind spot to hide from camera. I could see where the perp are all the time if I happen to catch them in the act while monitoring.
Also I have 4 young children so it easier to monitor them while they are playing out in back. I know what my children look like so no need to ID them up close. Most perp today are getting smarter and use hoodie or mask to prevent from being ID'ed by cameras anyway.
I have two varifocal up in front which is aimed at my driveway and other one aim at my front door for ID purpose but with hoodies and mask being so popular around here theses day so I see no point inventing more money for backyard to try ID perp at a distance. The cameras are near the doors that lead out to the backyard and will easily ID perps when they get near to the door.
Sure, I get that it's such a common newbie mistake. Where I'm lost is how you thought (based on the replies in this thread) that it was a mistake that I or @just some dude were making. Or that we don't know how to use the IVPM calculator... Christ, if I logged all of the time I spent using that calculator since last fall, I'd guess it'd add up to be two or more workdays.
@just some dude is buying two varifocals and two fixed lens, so it doesn't seem like he's on a track to do that....
It sounds like your backyard (and how it's best covered) is a bit different from a few others here.
I bought a varifocal that's zoomed out just in case I needed to zoom it in, but my use case for it so far is met by keeping it zoomed out. I use it to keep an eye on the dogs while they're playing. And to know when there's enough poop to scoop. And to see how much water fills up in the swale after a big storm. And to watch the company that fertilizes the stuff to make sure they're really doing everything they say they do. And to watch the new houses being built behind mine. All require an overview shot.
If I do need ID in the back yard at a later date, it will be through an ADDITIONAL camera, so that I could keep the overview shot that I refer to so frequently.
I was just speaking in generic terms; dont take it so personally.. Ive got a wide angle in back yard too, but I also have a varifoal zoomed in on play set because with the wide angle the kids were just a few pixels.. yeah i know who they are, but I like to see what kinda michief they are up too
Man it only took me one night of the "bug party" to look for an alt strategy for motion events. Spring on a mountain in Georgia is bug city. IVS intelligent functionality on the HDW5231R-Z was the ticket for sure! Not one single false alarm in two days (not a long time I know) but it's properly identified tripwire event every single time. I manually tested it about 8 times, even trying to trick it a few times by hugging the wall or moving very fast and it nailed me every time. It has grabbed every person walking towards my house and all coming/ going vehicles which is how I wanted it to behave. Beats the fuckerdoodles out of using motion events. I'm definitely going to snag one of these fixed turrets for my front door and I think my back yard (there's nothing in my backyard that makes sense to zoom on), then hopefully find a 6mm or maybe another 5231R in stock at some point for my driveway.
just some dude
Pulling my weight
- Feb 23, 2017
- 201
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nayr, HTTP 404 Not found on your firmware link. I've looked and did not find it myself.
seems all firmware been pulled from that site..
the model listing for the Varifocal firmware seems to include ones from this model range, try it:
the model listing for the Varifocal firmware seems to include ones from this model range, try it:
- NTSC Firmware: DH_IPC-HX5X3X-Rhea_EngSpn_N_Stream3_V2.460.0000.7.R.20170306.zip
- PAL Firmware: DH_IPC-HX5X3X-Rhea_Eng_P_Stream3_V2.460.0000.7.R.20170306.zip
- Firmware Changelog: DH_IPC-HX5X3X-Rhea_EngSpn_N_Stream3_V2.460.0000.7.R.20170306.pdf
I tried several and ended up settling on Axxon Next. I liked the single pain of glass on all the cams, not just motion detection but other analytics (line crossing, abandoned items, etc) to cut down on false alerts and the 100 to 500 emails I would receive from Blue Iris every day no matter how much I tweaked it. Axxon also supported using a Axis P8221 which I bought as it was my original plan to integrate some Bosch OD850's to trigger my recordings instead of motion events. I think I paid around $500 for a 9 camera license; one of the other reasons I went that route was that the next version of Axxon (4) was going to have a Linux version and I wanted my home server off of Windows. Now version 4 is out and all references to the Linux version are gone, so I'm looking at other options right now. I'm currently evaluating NX Witness/DW Spectrum and the granularity in the motion detection works really well, the way I always thought it should work. For example, with Axxon, I can set the sensitivity of motion, which is the same for the whole screen. I can set the minimum and maximum object size, how long movement takes place before triggering, pretty standard stuff, but it applies those same settings to the entire screen. With NX Witness, I get the familiar grid, and I can include areas for motion detection by drawing boxes. What is different (from what I've used) is that I can have different sensitivity settings, from 0 (none) to 9 (most sensitive) on the same screen. So on most of my cameras, I have 1 set close to the camera, and the further I get away, the higher I set the sensitivity on the box I draw. Something triggered a recording that shouldn't? I'll change the sensitivity of the box there by 1 and see if it stops. This is the best setup I've seen for motion detection so far, and I'm able to eliminate 95% of false positives without more advanced analytics or resorting to external sensors with this setup. I'm sure other VMS software has this as well, I've tried about a half dozen and this is the first time I've seen it. I'm curious to see how well it deals with the shadows I get once the leaves on the trees come in. It is licensed at about $255 for 4 cameras, a little more than I paid for Axxon.
just some dude
Pulling my weight
- Feb 23, 2017
- 201
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I was trying to do the Christian thing. I also had concerns as I didn't know if this guy was violent or not and after being arrested, would he come back shooting (not a problem if it's me or my wife, but with a then 2 and 4 year old in the house I wouldn't want to get in a shootout). What I've learned and been told by friends in law enforcement and an attorney since then is that if someone is caught like that, there are two outcomes. A) They know the cameras are there and everything de-escalates and you have no more problems. B) They are nuts and continue to escalate anyways. The chance of B) happening increases if, when they were caught, that you didn't press charges. The lesson they learned was that nothing happens, they get away with it so why should they stop.
wantafastz28
Getting comfortable
Yeah... hats off to you man. I would lose my shit. I'm stuck with that eye for an eye mentality. Kids really change perspective.