Do you think Audio is "worth it"?

J Sigmo

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This will be too long, but then you're all prepared for that with my posts. ;)

I don't have any Dahua cams with microphones or the capability to support an external mic. But my lowly Reolinks produce very good audio with their built-in microphones with the following caveats, which I believe will likely be true for just about any camera:

1. Wind rushing over the small opening for the microphone will create very annoying and loud noise, and we have a LOT of wind here. So this makes the audio so annoying as to force you to mute it when playing back or watching live on cameras with microphones on my house, if the wind is blowing (which is is a lot of the time). I installed some cut-up sweat socks so that they fit over the mic openings, and this helps somewhat, but not as much as a proper "dead cat" wind cover would.

2. Loud sounds (such as wind or kiddos and their muffler-less cars, or adult children riding their Harleys) causes clipping (hard limiting) either in the mic preamps, the A-D conversion, or elsewhere in the signal chain. That, too, makes listening to the audio unbearable.

I've designed and manufactured several audio systems that include compression to prevent this sort of issue. While not something I generally like for high-fidelity music listening, compression can be fantastic for something like our security camera systems, police/fire/emergency communications, etc. In commercial and civil radio comm systems, there is often NO compression, which is stupid beyond all belief, especially in a $10,000 dollar (no exaggeration!) radio. You always have three types of radio users: Those who hold the mic at a proper distance from their lips and speak clearly and at a reasonable volume. Those who apparently sit on the microphone and mumble softly as if they had a mouth full of marbles. Those who think they need to yell really loud because the person on the other end is really far away!

As a result, the fire/police/whatever folks have to turn up their receivers very loud to be able to hear the under-their-ass-microphone-placement mumblers. And that means that the yellers and even the folks who understand how it works all end up making everyone's ears bleed. Surprisingly, as a fireman, it wasn't the gas-operated chop saws, or jaws of life and the like that wrecked my son's ears, it was the radios in firetrucks and fire stations being cranked up super loud so they could hear the soft-talkers.

Anyhow, the same lack of compression is responsible for a lot of the complaints we read about on here with poor audio quality from security cameras or even external microphone setups.

My suggestion is that the manufacturers of these cameras use one of the commercially available microphone preamp ICs that has compression built in. Analog devices manufactured the ICs I've used, but I'm sure there are other IC manufacturers who make similar chips:

These are some that I used in the past:

https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ssm2166.pdf

https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ssm2167.pdf

In the ideal setup, you choose the components in the compression amplifier design to work with your chosen microphone (or mic element) so that soft sounds are still clearly audible and above the system noise floor, but loud sounds are compressed downward so that at no point, does the mic/preamp output saturate anything further down the processing chain, and thus, you don't have to put up with that extremely annoying, and unintelligible clipped (hard limited) audio. Keep in mind that digital audio systems are far less tolerant of overdrive than were analog recording systems of the past. When you overdrive magnetic tape, you get higher distortion, but not a "brick wall" of limiting like you get with a digital recording or transmission system. So it's extremely important to prevent feeding a "too hot" audio signal into a digital audio system.

Even if you don't use a compression amp, you still need to match the audio level coming out of your mic/preamp system to the input range of your camera or whatever input you're feeding. Clipped audio sounds like crap! If the microphone/preamp maker doesn't give you a sensitivity rating for their setup, and the camera (or whatever) maker tell you what the maximum input voltage to their device is, you must make some tests and measurements to determine how to set things up.

You can feed the microphone input to your camera (or whatever) with a signal generator and determine the clipping point. Then you can measure the microphone/preamp output when exposing it to known sound pressure levels and determine that system's sensitivity. Then you can set the gain of an intermediate amplifier or build a "pad" to adjust the level going into your camera (or other thing) to an appropriate range. This will NOT JUST MAGICALLY HAPPEN. Nobody is that lucky!

Signal levels must be matched.

Understanding Microphone Sensitivity | Analog Devices
 

mat200

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mat200

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This will be too long, but then you're all prepared for that with my posts. ;)
..
Hi @J Sigmo

May be nice to have a separate thread on microphones and mic hacks here on IPCT. ( or is there already one that I have over looked? )
 

J Sigmo

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Hi @J Sigmo

May be nice to have a separate thread on microphones and mic hacks here on IPCT. ( or is there already one that I have over looked? )
I have seen a few threads where people were searching for an external microphone to use with particular cameras that have microphone input connections.

Often, they complain about bad quality sound, and their descriptions of how things sound frequently seem to me to indicate that they're getting clipping somewhere in the signal chain. The answer, if that's the case, would be to install a voltage divider to reduce their microphone's signal level to match their camera's audio input.

And often, particular microphones are recommended, and I have to think that these mics are preferred because their output levels just happen to match the input circuits of certain cameras.

But I doubt that there is any standard for audio signal levels that cameras expect to see. So that makes it hard to recommend any particular microphone unless it is for a particular camera.

We could start a microphone hack thread to cover some of these issues. I dont currently have any security cameras with inputs for external microphones. But I should get one or two because I'd like to have audio for fro t and back sides of my house.

What would also be handy would be a little POE microphone preamp/compressor/encoder that would feed audio into a Blue Iris system, and a setup in BI that would let you assign that audio stream to whichever cameras are serving that same area.

I haven't looked into how BI can or could deal with an audio feed that is separate from any camera. It may already do what I want! It would be nice if it could accept audio-only inputs and let you assign that audio to cameras or groups of cameras, even overriding cameras' built-in mics. That would let us set up better quality microphone-preamp-compression systems and then assign that resulting audio to various cameras.

That way, even if a camera has a poor quality mic and amp system, or no mic or audio input, we could still have a good audio stream stored with the video from that camera (or cameras).


<
 

CCTVCam

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@mat200 Good point, it sounds like it may not really be worth it because even if a criminal is going to break into my house I doubt they would say anything specifically like "Hi my name is <FIRSTNAME><LASTNAME> and Im here to STEAL"
Although I probably wouldn't bother, I do think your view of the criminal announcing they're going to break into your property is rather simplistic. eg. What about the scenario where a con person comes to your door and tries to talk their way in or scams you out of money in some way? What about a caller to your door with where the conversation develops into an argument or they're not of sound mind and it turns nasty resulting in you being attacked? Same with the driveway. What about an argument that develops and you are forced to shoot or stab the person on the doorstep (where legal) as a result?

There are obviously a lot of legal and expense issues mentioned above and many wouldn't bother. However, its not quite a simple as you portrayed because there definitely are some scenarios where audio would either add something or be crucial to the footage and either proving the offence or possibly justifying your actions. The big issues here are cost, legality and technical considerations.
 

Ckb3

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For the OP, your original question was if mic's are "worth it." For me, I say yes... The few times I wanted to hear what was said i had no problem figuring it out. The best time was my Mother in law reminding my Father in law that I'm always watching (I'm really not). When reviewing other footage came across theirs and I could hear her tell him that I'm watching them. They had just arrived in my driveway and started snooping around our babysitters vehicle... There are laws with regard to recording so follow your local ones accordingly.
 

Bryan

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Not sure why you continue to say this, the audio on my Dahua cams are very good. Both with built-in mics and external mics.
You just need to turn off the noise filter in the audio setup of the cam.
The audio can also vary depending on the quality of speakers/sound system you use to listen. Crap speakers will produce crap audio no matter what.

Audio has came in very useful several times in the past year for us.

Quick question..I have a Dahua NVR5216-16P-4KS2 with a mic in and mic out RCA jacks. If I want to hear audio from my camera while playing recorded footage, what type of speaker could I hook up? No ohms listed in manual.
 
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