DS-7104N-SN / DS-7108N-SN; any good?

Iemand91

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In a other subforum I posted some questions about a possible setup with 2 Hikvision camera's and a NVR.
But I got almost zero answers there and since my main question is about the NVR; I thought posting my question her might be the solution.

This is the house. I made in Sketchup before rebuild started. I added some dimensions too (in meters).

- The property is NOT the rectangle, but the single line going around the house.
- The two white blocks on the right are a garage/shed which I didn't bother to recreate in Sketchup.:rolleyes:
- The road is on the left, a neighbor's driveway is on top, and on the right and the bottom are other neighbor's yards.
- The current own driveway is on the bottom. In the future it will go to where the cars are parked.
Or on the upper left corner of the property. Not yet fully figured out.

We were thinking to place 2 camera's on both sides of the house in the corner indicated by the red stars.
Placing them as high as possible (just under the gutter), facing the road.
Height will be about 2.5 - 2.8 meters.
The front door will be underneath the camera location (behind the van).

Hopefully the situation is clear, if not, please ask.

Now, to the electronics.

I was thinking of replacing the (expensive since it has a SDcard-slot) DS-2CD2032F-I with the popular EXIR-turret:
DS-2CD2335-I, DS-2CD2335-I (different listing?), DS-2CD2345-I or DS-2CD3345-I .

I was thinking of powering both camera's with POE, but do not yet know in what way.
A Hik NVR with POE-ports is at least double as expensive as the two listed below; so that's no option.
I could get two of this or a switch with POE. (but a switch with POE is very expensive too).
I have to figure out if those Aliexpress POE-solutions (the 4/8 port ones) are any good. If they are I could use them to power a POE-access-point as well which would be handy.

But this is where I need you guys very much.
I know how Hikvision camera's work on their own but not in combination with an NVR.
So; a couple of questions:

The only affordable (Hikvision) NVR I could find are the DS-7104N-SN or DS-7108N-SN. Basically the same NVR's but the second supposedly supports 8 channels instead of 4 but only in a very low resolution.
Only technical different (going through the specs) was the 8 channel NVR supports double the incoming bandwith, draws a bit more power and is slightly bigger in size.


- Will these 2 camera's work properly with said NVR's?
- If they do (I think they do) the NVR won't be able to record at full resolution but only at 1080p but that okay. I think I can't get away with the 4 channel instead of the 8-channel.
Recording both camera's at high resolutions needs a very expensive NVR.
- My idea is to put in a 1TB WD Purple drive and record both camera's 24/7 and highlight when movement and/or line crossing occurs. Is that possible? (recording 24/7 but also movement visible on timeline?)
- Who does the motion detection is this kind of setup? The camera's on their own or the NVR?
 

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alastairstevenson

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I may be wrong, and I have no direct experience of this model, but I believe the -SN models are low-end, low-resolution and might be best avoided if you want to get the best out of current cameras, especially those that you referenced.
 

Iemand91

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I may be wrong, and I have no direct experience of this model, but I believe the -SN models are low-end, low-resolution and might be best avoided if you want to get the best out of current cameras, especially those that you referenced.
I know the NVR can't handle the high resolutions the turrets can put out (even though someone on a other forum commented it recorded multiple camera's at resolutions higher then 1080p) but if he would get a NVR that CAN handle those high resolutions it would be a very VERY expensive NVR.

But at this moment he commented he won't buy this stuff yet since rebuilding his new house is expensive enough.
We will be putting in some conduit to the camera locations; are said locations the right locations for the camera's?:rolleyes:
 

alastairstevenson

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it would be a very VERY expensive NVR.
I suppose it depends on your definition of cost - my 7816N-E2 16 channel was around 130GBP. Looking on Aliexpress - a DS-7604NI-K1 is under 100GBP, not a lot more expensive than the DS-7104N-SN/ and much better encoding capability.
 

Iemand91

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I suppose it depends on your definition of cost - my 7816N-E2 16 channel was around 130GBP. Looking on Aliexpress - a DS-7604NI-K1 is under 100GBP, not a lot more expensive than the DS-7104N-SN/ and much better encoding capability.
I guess. (Even though I can't find the DS-7604NI-K1 on Aliexpress beings sold by a trusted seller).

But you've got to admit; that the whole setup does cost quite a lot of money for your average person/home owner.
2 camera's about €70 each, 1TB Purple drive about €62, two of those POE-injectors about €7 each and an NVR between €60 and €110. (I see the DS-7104N-SN has the same price but the DS-7108N-SN has gone way up; it used to be just slightly more expensive then the DS-7104N-SN. In that way your mentioned NVR isn't that much more expensive indeed.

But total cost is still around €276 - €326 at minimum since this is all without possible import costs. You can't deny this is quite a bit of money for just 2 camera's for the average person that hasn't much interest in it anyway. (My brother that is)

But for now; buying the stuff is postponed; we just need to make sure the mentioned camera locations are okay with users on this forum so we can lay conduit to those locations.
 

Carcus

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The 7104 and 7108 can record 3MP cameras (2332 or 2335) no problem at full 20 or 25FPS. It will not work with the 4MP (2342 or 2345) cameras in full resolution.

It cannot playback 3MP footage from the unit itself using the built in HDMI/VGA output it will display no resources.

You will need to use the mobile app or web interface to playback the footage.

You can always set the 3MP cameras to record at 2MP (1080P) and it can display that on the box. If your going to hide the box away and not use its outputs this isn't an issue.

A lot of people get confused by the Live View specs stating that it can only handle 4 x 720p or 2 x 1080P. That is only the boxes ability to decode the stream using the HDMI/VGA output on the box.

The 7108 can record 8 x 3MP all in the full 3MP resolution. It just can't play them back from the boxes output.

If your are on a budget that is a good option. Try and get the OEM models if possible as it supports firmware upgrades.

The better options is obviously the 7604 and 2342's IMO.
 

Iemand91

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The 7104 and 7108 can record 3MP cameras (2332 or 2335) no problem at full 20 or 25FPS. It will not work with the 4MP (2342 or 2345) cameras in full resolution.

It cannot playback 3MP footage from the unit itself using the built in HDMI/VGA output it will display no resources.

You will need to use the mobile app or web interface to playback the footage.

You can always set the 3MP cameras to record at 2MP (1080P) and it can display that on the box. If your going to hide the box away and not use its outputs this isn't an issue.

A lot of people get confused by the Live View specs stating that it can only handle 4 x 720p or 2 x 1080P. That is only the boxes ability to decode the stream using the HDMI/VGA output on the box.

The 7108 can record 8 x 3MP all in the full 3MP resolution. It just can't play them back from the boxes output.

If your are on a budget that is a good option. Try and get the OEM models if possible as it supports firmware upgrades.

The better options is obviously the 7604 and 2342's IMO.
This is great information. just what I'm looking for. HUGE thank you!

The recording capabilities of NVR's is indeed confusing but that's just the live viewing capabilities not the actual recording. That's what I've read too, the max. input bandwith is the limiting factor right? But if that's the case; why are the 4MP camera's not supported? Or is there (aside from the bandwith limit) also a resolution limit?
Not being able to playback recordings through HDMI/VGA is unfortunate but at least you can do that through the webinterface.
As for live view through HDMI you use the substream anyway right?

Thanks for you reply; very helpful and great information to take with me when we will decide if and what we purchase.
 

Carcus

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Not sure how they limit that just when i have plugged a 4MP camera in its just come up blank and can't read it unless I manually set it to 1080P.

You can have live view of the substream in 2x2 mode via HDMI yes. If you click on a camera to full screen or try and playback recorded footage it will say no resources as it doesn't have the processing power to decode 3MP.

No problem. Good luck!
 

Iemand91

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Thanks. So if a understand correctly full screen live view out of HDMI of 1 camera does not work? Probably because it then switches to the main stream?

But in that case; he might as well buy some device (Raspberry Pi, Android box or something like that) to view the main- or substream on a TV and leave the NVR hidden just to record the full streams.

Thank you; your comment that this combination works (and works better then I expected; record both camera's (and even more then 2) at highter resolution then 1080p) is a huge relief.
 
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