Dumping my old system and starting new! Looking for camera recommendations

[KurB]

My current situation is that I have Ring cameras which continue to let me down so I'm looking to replace them. I have no interest in Wi-Fi based cameras, I'll pull a home run to each camera powering them from a POE+ (90 watt) switch.

1x Doorbell camera with all the bells and whistles and possibly an associated chime. Needs to be compact due to lack of real estate where the CAM mounts.

1x PTZ camera for the left front corner of my house. Its approximately 25 feet to the street and about 35 feet to my mailbox which I want to closely monitor if there is movement. This camera should track foot traffic and vehicle traffic on the street.

1x Bullet camera for the side ally of my house. This is probably around 70 feet to the road.

1x dual lens or wide angle for my back door which will cover the porch and backyard with pool. The distance to the fence is less than 30 feet.

1x dual lens camera to mount over my double garage doors to monitor my driveway. The distance to the street from here is about 25 feet. This camera will monitor foot traffic on the sidewalk in front of my house and monitor my driveway.

I'm not looking to cheap out on the cameras. Ideally the cameras would announce they have detected a person inside the perimeter (Hi you are currently being recorded or something like that). All cameras will be mounted under an awning so they will have some protection from the elements. I want monitoring and alerts to my smart phone where I can get playback, and I don't' want any subscription services. I have a EERO Max 7 mesh router and 2g fiber from spectrum so bandwidth shouldn't be an issue during playback.

I have a Brocade ICX7450-48P for the POE switch which I believe should be good for pretty much any camera I want to add. I'll be running CAT6 plenum to all the drops with all the equipment living in my attic.

For server hardware I have two spare servers that may work:

Dell EMC R240 and a Precision R7610.

My thoughts where one would run Frigate and the other would run home assistant. I want something solid that won't require a lot of tinkering once it's up and running though I don't mind putting in the time to get it setup correctly. That being said I hope Frigate is the right choice but maybe something else would be better.

Please give me those comments, good or bad.

Thanks!

 

[wittaj]

Welcome!

You won't find many here recommending wifi cams, or any consumer stuff you can pick up at Best Buy LOL.

See this thread for the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night. These also meet your specs of not wifi and no subscriptions.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

You will probably need more cameras or revise the goals. One camera cannot be the be all/see all. The camera to IDENTIFY at 15 feet is a different camera than one to IDENTIFY at 70 feet.

PTZs are a compliment to an existing system and not replacements for fixed cameras.

So with only PTZs and no additional fixed cameras - what happens when 2 or more people come up to your house - the PTZ is only catching and tracking one of them, not all of them.

PTZs are not perfect and can lose tracking. Then you miss the person.

What happens when the PTZ is looking left and a perp comes from the right?

That is why PTZs are not a replacement for fixed cameras - they are a compliment to an existing system.

If you rely on a PTZ only it will miss many instances, especially when it is off tracking something else.

You are much better off using fixed cams as spotter cams to point the PTZ to where the action is and then let the autotracking take over from there.

See this thread on how a PTZ compliments a fixed camera system.

 

[Mike A.]

PTZs also tend to have a relatively higher lowest focal length. i.e., You’ll be starting out at ~5mm instead of 2.8/3.6 as with most fixed/variable focus non-PTZ cams. So at 25/35 feet to the street/mailbox you’re likely going to have a tighter field of view than you may want at the camera’s widest setting. If you’re intending to shoot farther down the street then will be better.

 

[TonyR]

Welcome to IPCT!

Consider the Reolink POE doorbell for that specific job. It's the only Reolink camera that gets much love here on IPCT but it has more likes than dislike. I've got 2 of the Wi-Fi versions since June of '23 and like them a lot. POE on CAT cable would be even better.

Have you considered Blue Iris?

 

[KurB]

Welcome to IPCT!

Consider the Reolink POE doorbell for that specific job. It's the only Reolink camera that gets much love here on IPCT but it has more likes than dislike. I've got 2 of the Wi-Fi versions since June of '23 and like them a lot. POE on CAT cable would be even better.

Have you considered Blue Iris?

First, thank you for your service and happy Veteran's Day!

Yes, looks like the Reolink POE doorbell is really the only choice for my application. I hadn't really considered Blue Iris due to all the praise I hear about Frigate and Coral USB accelerators, but I'm open to suggestions. Basically, my expectation is something similar to the Ring product when it comes to detection (package and perimeter notifications). If Blue Iris does that then I probably don't need Frigate.

Kurt

 

[wittaj]

PTZ IP Camera, Auto Tracking
View attachment 207079
8MP 25× Starlight IR WizSense Network PTZ Camera
1/2.8" 8Megapixel CMOS.
Powerful 25× optical zoom.
Starlight Technology.
Max. 25/30fps@8MP.
IR distance up to 150 m.
Deep-learning-based perimeter protection.
Auto-tracking 3.0 and IVS.
PoE+.
IP67, IK10.
SMD 4.0.

Dude - why do you keep on suggesting cameras that are on less than ideal MP/sensor ratios? 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor is horrible at night and even worse for a PTZ. This is at least the 3rd different post where you are suggesting stuff nobody else uses.

I have compliled in my post the most commonly suggested cameras based on actual use by members here.

 

[steve1225]

4MP Bullet Camera 2.7 mm–13.5 mm Focal Lens
View attachment 207082

4MP Smart Dual Light Vari-focal Bullet WizSense Network Camera
4-MP 1/2.9" CMOS image sensor, low luminance, and high definition image.
Outputs max. 4 MP (2688 × 1520)@20 fps, and supports 2560 ×1440 (2560 × 1440)@25/30 fps.
H.265 codec, high compression rate, ultra-low bit rate.
Built-in multi-core light, the max. IR distance is 60 m and the max. warm light distance is 60 m.
ROI, SMART H.264+/H.265+, flexible coding, applicable to various bandwidth and storage environments.
Rotation mode, WDR, 3D NR, HLC, BLC, digital watermarking, applicable to various monitoring scenes.
Intelligent monitoring: Intrusion, tripwire (the two functions support the classification and accurate detection of vehicle and human).
Abnormality detection: Motion detection, video tampering, audio detection, no SD card, SD card full, SD card error, network disconnection, IP conflict, illegal access, and voltage detection.
Alarm: 1 in, 1 out; audio: 1 in, 1 out; supports max. 256 G Micro SD card; built in Mic.
12 VDC/PoE power supply, easy for installation.
IP67, IK10 (optional) protection.
SMD Plus.

Man, what are You doing here on this forum???
Except one doorbell model (VTO2202F) all Your recommendations are garbage...

small cheap sensors, not proper resolution / sensor size ratios, low-end lines...

You are for some time on this forum, You should learn how to choose cameras at this time...

 

[TonyR]

+1^^^.
Yes, a 4MP camera with anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor will suck at night if there's movement, an 8MP even more so.

@Tech Lucas ,you've been a member of IPCT for 4 years and haven't come to that conclusion yet? If not, either you have not been paying attention or are intentionally disregarding the opinions and qualified recommendations of members with far more experience than yourself.

Which is it?

 

[looney2ns]

Obvious to me that @Tech Lucas is a full blown spammer and should be ignored.

 

[Ri22o]

So, do you think most clients are buying garbage over and over again?

Yes

 

[steve1225]

Well, I really appreciate your analysis and sarcasm. First, not everyone has to buy the 1/1.8" sensor Dahua cameras that you often recommend, which can be costly or unnecessary. There are also some cost-effective Dahua cameras that are not the ones you frequently recommend, but they can meet our basic surveillance requirements, and some are even bestsellers in Europe and the USA. So, do you think most clients are buying garbage over and over again? Many of the latest Dahua cameras with new tech features do not come with a 1/1.8" sensor either. Does that mean they are all garbage? In addition, the overall quality of a camera is not just determined by the MP vs. sensor ratios.

You known that HIK/Dahua in official sales channels are multiplying camera prices x3 - x4?
This is for have ability give camera installers 50-70% off discount plus sales / distribution / guarantee / supports costs..
This is way lower lines are so popular in EU & USA - with that x3-x4 more HIK/Dahua profesional cams costs a lot.

In my country (Poland) 5442-ZE costs above 600$ (MSRP price). Andy price is 180$.
So normal people (house owner, small businesses) can't allow for that prices.
And in my country 95% installers didn't have even possibility to play with PRO equipment - they don't known how it work and what it offers - they mount only cheapest models due crazy high MSRP prices...

We here at forum have Andy / empiretech01.com which is Dahua OEM and sells us Dahua equipment without that x3 - x4 overcharging.
So we pay for good pro cams with 1/1.8" and 1/1.2" sensors less that normal people in Dahua channels for cheap / lower models...

And we have known what PRO lines with good resolution / image sensor size ratio do/offers..
this is way only that models are recommended on this forum..

ps. about 80% installed on different sites by me cams works at night in color. And they give nice sharp looking image of people IN MOVEMENT, in most cases allowing for IDENTIFICATION.
How does it look in installations with the camera models you propose?

 

[wittaj]

Dude you recommended the SD5A825GB-HNR which is an 8MP PTZ on the 1/2.8" sensor designed for 2MP. That would perform very poorly at night.

A quick google search shows that it goes for over $900 at most places, although CCTVMall has it for $770 plus shipping. Most of the stuff you are posting isn't even available on Amazon...

That is not cheap for a camera on that horrible sensor. Highway robbery for someone to pay that.

The PTZs we recommend don't even cost that much and will blow that PTZ out of the water....heck two we recommend cost half that....

I have no idea where you are pulling your recommendation cameras from - do you have a stash you are trying to offload?

You say your recommendations are best sellers (which are not even available on Amazon), well so is Reolink and Ring and Blink and Wyze and Arlo, but we are not recommending those....

The cameras most of us recommend here have been tested and used by a lot of members here. Most of us use them because we started the journey with the cameras on less than ideal MP/sensor ratio cameras and were underwhelmed in their performance when it counted, just like the OP of this thread.

The video quality examples shown here of the $100-$200ish cameras we recommend versus an Arlo $200ish cam or a Ring $200ish cam are no comparison. We are not exactly proposing Top Shelf Axis that costs 5-6 times other cameras - we are recommending cameras comparable in price to consumer favorites Ring and Arlo. Sure you can buy cheaper cameras, but when they shove 8MP on a sensor designed for 2MP, you will get poor results at night.

For most of us, the perps are out at night and that is when we want good video.

Check out this thread on all the popular consumer grade junk (most of it wifi) that people have bought and look how poor the performance is. This would be the performance that most of the cameras you recommend would do.

The Typical picture of a Perp on Nextdoor-type Apps with Consumer Grade Cameras like Ring, Nest, Arlo, Canary, Wyze, etc.


And in particular look at post #40 which is direct comparison between a better camera and the more expensive Ring that caught the same doorchecker on video in this neighborhood:

The Typical picture of a Perp on Nextdoor-type Apps with Consumer Grade Cameras like Ring, Nest, Arlo, Canary, Wyze, etc.

But if you say these cameras you recommend work well, please post video examples of them in action with low light of an object in motion. We don't care about a nice bright static image as any camera can do that.

 

[wittaj]

None of those videos show us what the performance is in low light. That is what most members here care about - catching that 2am perp when it is dark outside.

Any camera can do well in the daytime and enough light.

You said "Just because you can't find the cameras I recommended" is a big deal - many of the cameras you are suggesting are not available on normal purchasing options. Most in the US want to buy from Amazon or B&H, not AliExpress or ebay for a brand new camera. Or some shady site we never heard of.

All you are showing us are Dahua marketing videos that are going to be showing best case.

Do you personally have all these cameras you are recommending? Show us what they look like at low light. Or are you a reseller?

Of those 3 videos for the 2449 you provided, this is the only night time image. Showing us a static image at night is useless. I can make a $40 camera look like the sun is out at midnight and better than this image, but then motion is a blur. Actually based on that image, I have seen enough images to know that motion on that will be blur and probably some see through body parts.




This wide angle middle of the day shot is useless in telling us how it performs at night with low light.



Seeing someone at a desk in the middle of the day again doesn't tell me how it performs at night: