First time setting up security system

[shalem2014]

I did not realize you already had the 8mp cameras. In that case it would be advantageous to use substreaming right away in Blue Iris, or you will definitely need a CPU in that range and possibly more RAM as well. It takes a lot of processing power and memory to decode 8mp video streams, which that PC will be doing on all 14 cameras 24/7 for motion detection! 8mp x 14 cameras... I'm wondering if that CPU will be powerful enough!

 

[GenericGames]

I did not realize you already had the 8mp cameras. In that case it would be advantageous to use substreaming right away in Blue Iris, or you will definitely need a CPU in that range and possibly more RAM as well. It takes a lot of processing power and memory to decode 8mp video streams, which that PC will be doing on all 14 cameras 24/7 for motion detection! 8mp x 14 cameras... I'm wondering if that CPU will be powerful enough!

Well currently I only have 8 of the cameras and the other two should be on their way. After looking around my house I am thinking I will only need 2 more cameras of the same type and one decentish one. So 12 of the 8mp ones.

 

[samplenhold]

Well currently I only have 8 of the cameras and the other two should be on their way

So are you talking about the Arlos or the Amcrests?

 

[GenericGames]

So are you talking about the Arlos or the Amcrests?

The amcrest ones. I am replacing the existing 10 arlos.

 

[GenericGames]

I did not realize you already had the 8mp cameras. In that case it would be advantageous to use substreaming right away in Blue Iris, or you will definitely need a CPU in that range and possibly more RAM as well. It takes a lot of processing power and memory to decode 8mp video streams, which that PC will be doing on all 14 cameras 24/7 for motion detection! 8mp x 14 cameras... I'm wondering if that CPU will be powerful enough!

So I will need the I9-9900k than is what you are saying correct? If a 9900k ended up not being enough what would I want to go with? I can't seem to find anything that tells me roughly how much a CPU would be able to handle for cameras.

Also what does the substream do? I looked around a bit but I'm not really sure what it does.

 

[Kn10]

Also what does the substream do? I looked around a bit but I'm not really sure what it does.

Your cameras can output a main stream, and a substream. Your main stream will be the full 8MP.
The substream is a much lower resolution stream coming from the camera (like 1080p) that you can also connect to.

In Blue Iris, it'll use the full main 8MP stream for recording to the hard drive. So you have the best quality available if you ever need to recall it.
However, you dont need to burden your BI machine displaying the full 8MP always in the viewscreen when its visible box for that camera is only 500px wide.

So when viewing in the main view where you see all of your cameras, you are only seeing the substreams.
8 x 1080p is much less taxing to display on the screen at once instead of 8 x 4096. Saves a TON of CPU overhead.

But again, if you ever need it, you still have the full 4K file on your hard drive.

 

[GenericGames]

O

Your cameras can output a main stream, and a substream. Your main stream will be the full 8MP.
The substream is a much lower resolution stream coming from the camera (like 1080p) that you can also connect to.

In Blue Iris, it'll use the full main 8MP stream for recording to the hard drive. So you have the best quality available if you ever need to recall it.
However, you dont need to burden your BI machine displaying the full 8MP always in the viewscreen when its visible box for that camera is only 500px wide.

So when viewing in the main view where you see all of your cameras, you are only seeing the substreams.
8 x 1080p is much less taxing to display on the screen at once instead of 8 x 4096.

Ohhhhhh. Okay. That makes a whole lot more sense.

 

[shalem2014]

So I will need the I9-9900k than is what you are saying correct? If a 9900k ended up not being enough what would I want to go with? I can't seem to find anything that tells me roughly how much a CPU would be able to handle for cameras.

Also what does the substream do? I looked around a bit but I'm not really sure what it does.

Yes; I wish I could say more, but I've never used a 4k camera. So I can't advise for sure what you would need to decode fourteen 4k streams, but at that resolution on that many cameras, I feel that you're going to have to use the new substream feature. That's simply an astronomical amount of data to decode real time otherwise!

Most IP cameras have at least two video streams: The main stream in full resolution, and one or more sub streams at a lower resolution. Until recently, Blue Iris has always streamed (and decoded) the full main stream, and processed that image for motion detection. The problem is that people are now beginning to use 2k and 4k cameras, vastly increasing the amount of processing power needed to decode the video and process each frame for motion on each camera. The newly introduced substream feature in Blue Iris now allows it to stream (and decode) a sub stream—often at VGA resolution—to watch for motion. It takes very little CPU and RAM to decode a 0.3mp stream compared to an 8mp stream! When motion is detected, Blue Iris starts capturing the full resolution main stream and saving it directly to the disk (no decoding required). As a result, Blue Iris never has to decode the full 4k image unless you're viewing a camera live in solo, or playing back a saved clip; and when it does, it's just one camera at a time instead of all 14 at the same time. This is the first part of how motion detection should have always been done, and I am so pleased to see Blue Iris finally doing it! With fourteen 4k cameras, the difference in processing power required is improved by an order of several magnitude by using substream technology. (The second part of how motion detection is supposed to be done is to use the motion vectors encoded into the encoded H.264 frames by the camera instead of decoding the stream and doing a bitmap comparison, but nobody seems to be that smart yet.)
Some people enable the Blue Iris option to "Limit decoding unless required" to reduce CPU load. NEVER do this. It completely cripples your motion detector as it only decodes key frames—so only one image every 1-5 seconds. You might get away with it indoors, but the results will be completely unpredictable outside, and you won't be able to use the MAKE time to filter out brief aberrations.

 

[GenericGames]

Yes; I wish I could say more, but I've never used a 4k camera. So I can't advise for sure what you would need to decode fourteen 4k streams, but at that resolution on that many cameras, I feel that you're going to have to use the new substream feature. That's simply an astronomical amount of data to decode real time otherwise!

Most IP cameras have at least two video streams: The main stream in full resolution, and one or more sub streams at a lower resolution. Until recently, Blue Iris has always streamed (and decoded) the full main stream, and processed that image for motion detection. The problem is that people are now beginning to use 2k and 4k cameras, vastly increasing the amount of processing power needed to decode the video and process each frame for motion on each camera. The newly introduced substream feature in Blue Iris now allows it to stream (and decode) a sub stream—often at VGA resolution—to watch for motion. It takes very little CPU and RAM to decode a 0.3mp stream compared to an 8mp stream! When motion is detected, Blue Iris starts capturing the full resolution main stream and saving it directly to the disk (no decoding required). As a result, Blue Iris never has to decode the full 4k image unless you're viewing a camera live in solo, or playing back a saved clip; and when it does, it's just one camera at a time instead of all 14 at the same time. This is the first part of how motion detection should have always been done, and I am so pleased to see Blue Iris finally doing it! With fourteen 4k cameras, the difference in processing power required is improved by an order of several magnitude by using substream technology. (The second part of how motion detection is supposed to be done is to use the motion vectors encoded into the encoded H.264 frames by the camera instead of decoding the stream and doing a bitmap comparison, but nobody seems to be that smart yet.)
Some people enable the Blue Iris option to "Limit decoding unless required" to reduce CPU load. NEVER do this. It completely cripples your motion detector as it only decodes key frames—so only one image every 1-5 seconds. You might get away with it indoors, but the results will be completely unpredictable outside, and you won't be able to use the MAKE time to filter out brief aberrations.

So, just to clerify. With the substream it wouldn't be recording at 4k until it detected motion and once it detected motion it would start recording in 4k? Or would it always be recording in 4k but just wouldn't show the 4k on the monitor unless motion is detected?

 

[shalem2014]

Assuming you're using direct-to-disk recording, and have supplied the URLs for substreaming, here's a fact chart that should help you understand all the details:

• When viewing multiple cameras live in UI3, it decodes their sub streams and composes them into a single image with the camera sub streams tiled. This requires CPU power (cameras × sub) as long as you're viewing the live cameras page. Without substreaming, this load would be high (cameras × resolution).
• Same when the Blue Iris GUI is open—all the camera tiles decode from the sub stream. This requires CPU power (cameras × sub) as long as Blue Iris is open on the screen. Without substreaming, this load would be high (cameras × resolution).
• When you switch to viewing a single camera (UI3 or GUI), it switches to the main stream to display that camera in full resolution. This requires CPU power (1 × resolution), but only on one camera at a time. You can actually see it switch briefly before the main stream keyframe comes in.
• Blue Iris always records the main stream to the disk. No extra CPU is required for this as there is no decoding involved.
• If you have 24/7 recording enabled, it will record main stream around the clock without needing to decode any of those main streams live—so no extra CPU load; just a bunch of data streaming to your disk continuously.
• If you have motion detection enabled, it will decode the sub stream 24/7 to analyze for motion, and record the main stream when motion is detected. This requires CPU power (cameras × sub). Without substreaming, this constant load would be high (cameras × resolution). This is where the CPU limit comes in.
• If you don't have motion detection enabled, this static load doesn't exist regardless of substreaming or not, and the only CPU usage limit you're likely to run into is when trying to view all the cameras tiled live (see the first two points).
• Blue Iris streams both main and sub continuously. Thus, your network bandwidth will always be high. Main, to maintain the pre-record buffer. Sub, to monitor for motion. If not used, the data is discarded.

If you don't supply the sub stream URLs, Blue Iris uses the main stream for everything, which increases CPU usage. With a bunch of high resolution cameras, this difference is huge!

 

[GenericGames]

Assuming you're using direct-to-disk recording, and have supplied the URLs for substreaming, here's a fact chart that should help you understand all the details:

• When viewing multiple cameras live in UI3, it decodes their sub streams and composes them into a single image with the camera sub streams tiled. This requires CPU power (cameras × sub) as long as you're viewing the live cameras page. Without substreaming, this load would be high (cameras × resolution).
• Same when the Blue Iris GUI is open—all the camera tiles decode from the sub stream. This requires CPU power (cameras × sub) as long as Blue Iris is open on the screen. Without substreaming, this load would be high (cameras × resolution).
• When you switch to viewing a single camera (UI3 or GUI), it switches to the main stream to display that camera in full resolution. This requires CPU power (1 × resolution), but only on one camera at a time. You can actually see it switch briefly before the main stream keyframe comes in.
• Blue Iris always records the main stream to the disk. No extra CPU is required for this as there is no decoding involved.
• If you have 24/7 recording enabled, it will record main stream around the clock without needing to decode any of those main streams live—so no extra CPU load; just a bunch of data streaming to your disk continuously.
• If you have motion detection enabled, it will decode the sub stream 24/7 to analyze for motion, and record the main stream when motion is detected. This requires CPU power (cameras × sub). Without substreaming, this constant load would be high (cameras × resolution). This is where the CPU limit comes in.
• If you don't have motion detection enabled, this static load doesn't exist regardless of substreaming or not, and the only CPU usage limit you're likely to run into is when trying to view all the cameras tiled live (see the first two points).
• Blue Iris streams both main and sub continuously. Thus, your network bandwidth will always be high. Main, to maintain the pre-record buffer. Sub, to monitor for motion. If not used, the data is discarded.

If you don't supply the sub stream URLs, Blue Iris uses the main stream for everything, which increases CPU usage. With a bunch of high resolution cameras, this difference is huge!

So with this "Blue Iris always records the main stream to the disk. No extra CPU is required for this as there is no decoding involved. "
If I'm not actively viewing the cameras than the cpu usage would not be much of an issue or do I misunderstand?

 

[shalem2014]

Depends if you have motion detection enabled. That's what most of us use Blue Iris for. If not, then the only time you'd be at risk of running out of CPU is when all the cameras are on the screen at the same time. And using substreams would mitigate this issue for both motion detection and live viewing of all the camera tiles.

 

[GenericGames]

Depends if you have motion detection enabled. That's what most of us use Blue Iris for. If not, then the only time you'd be at risk of running out of CPU is when all the cameras are on the screen at the same time. And using substreams would mitigate this issue for both motion detection and live viewing of all the camera tiles.

Okay okay. I think I understand it a lot more now. If I'm understanding this it seems like I might not need something more powerful than the 9900k or maybe if I'm lucky I won't need a 9900k at all.

I was sitting here while waiting for your replies and doing research on what you were telling me & research on higher end intel cpu's and trying to figure out if a ryzen cpu would or would not be better.

I do still want to figure that out about the ryzen cpu since there is the 3900x at ~$100 cheaper than the 9900k and is ranked higher on the list that was recommened to look at in the guide for hardware

 

[GenericGames]

Depends if you have motion detection enabled. That's what most of us use Blue Iris for. If not, then the only time you'd be at risk of running out of CPU is when all the cameras are on the screen at the same time. And using substreams would mitigate this issue for both motion detection and live viewing of all the camera tiles.

By the way thank you very much for all the explanations and help!

 

[samplenhold]

3990X & Blueirs thoughts ?

Just wanted to see what your guys opinion is how will this CPU perform or what are your guesses on what kind of load it can handle ? for blue iris ? I am not planning on getting it but Wanted to just see what you guys think it can handle.. since it has a really high core count and decent...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[VladGur]

I do still want to figure that out about the ryzen cpu since there is the 3900x at ~$100 cheaper than the 9900k and is ranked higher on the list that was recommened to look at in the guide for hardware

FYI based on what i read on this forum in the past few days, i would steer clear of AMD CPUs for now as only Intel cpus(and 6gen and up) support a QuickSync technology used by BI

 

[looney2ns]

Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

 

[GenericGames]

FYI based on what i read on this forum in the past few days, i would steer clear of AMD CPUs for now as only Intel cpus(and 6gen and up) support a QuickSync technology used by BI

So you think I should just go with a 9900k or another intel cpu?

For the info on AMD I was looking at this post and this one

 

[VladGur]

Honestly, while everybody is telling you that you are overspending on the computer, its ultimately up to you to decide.
Personally, i would not want to invest in latest and greatest and instead buy to give yourself some margin and then iteratively upgrade if possible.
By the time you may actually need 9900k, it may be available in used Dell Optiplex form for under $300. Personally, i would spend $$ on quality surveillance-grade hard drives instead.

If i decide to go the BI route, ill probably be buying a 7th gen i5 DELL/HP smaller form factor pcs off ebay. I wont be gaming on the BI computer though, my main focus will be maintenance cost and power usage

 

[GenericGames]

Honestly, while everybody is telling you that you are overspending on the computer, its ultimately up to you to decide.
Personally, i would not want to invest in latest and greatest and instead buy to give yourself some margin and then iteratively upgrade if possible.
By the time you may actually need 9900k, it may be available in used Dell Optiplex form for under $300. Personally, i would spend $$ on quality surveillance-grade hard drives instead.

Most of the cost of the build is 4 14tb WD purple drives.
Plus with the cameras I have now it seems that it would already be close to what the 9900k can do since it's 10 4k cameras.