Florida trailer Park bans, security cameras

[looney2ns]

Florida mobile home park bans security cameras for residents

A Hillsborough County mobile home park is banning surveillance cameras, telling residents that recording audio and video is a felony, despite signage saying recording is in progress.

www.abcactionnews.com

 

[TonyR]

Excerpts:

“Somebody was recording with sound. And it’s against the law to record sound without consent,” Babuka <park owner> said.​

​

“We’ve heard that it’s a felony,” Babuka said but admits he never consulted an attorney about the law.​

Okay, so you "heard that it's a felony" and you evict people on that flimsy premise?

But wait! There's more.....

"But Babuka said he wouldn’t trust Evans to comply." says the article.​

​

“I don’t think I would believe her because she’s vengeful and hateful and mean,” Babuka said.​

But you and your sister were caught on camera on her property without her permission.....why should she trust YOU? That's probably why you don't want cameras because YOU got caught in the wrong!

Assholes.

 

[Ri22o]

I am in Indiana. Indiana is a single party consent state.

I had considered enabling audio on some of my cameras. I never thought about it until now, but I am not always one of the parties present, so therefore I technically wouldn't be able to give consent.

If I do have audio enabled, should I turn it off? What happens if I do have a camera with audio enabled and then need to use the footage? Would it be inadmissible? Would the tables turn and I get in trouble? Can I put up an "audio recording in progress" sign and be covered?

How does Ring get away with it on their doorbells? Or are you subject to local laws and there is an option to turn it off buried somewhere in their app?

 

[bp2008]

As far as I know, there's no cut and dry answer to whether you can use the audio from a security camera as evidence in court. Once you have the video file it is easy to remove the audio track if someone wants it gone.

Honestly by the time a decision is made and well understood on the subject of audio recording legality, you'll probably be able to go to any of a dozen web sites and have them listen to your audio track and change what was said using AI.

 

[biggen]

I record everything with audio. I have even submitted it to the police with audio. Never heard any issues from them. As @bp2008 said, its easy to strip the audio track out if desired.

As far as banning video recording, good luck. I don't need anyone's consent to record them in a place of public where they have no expectation of privacy and neither do any of the trailer park renters/owners.

 

[Ri22o]

I was thinking worst case where they subpoena you for footage and just take the whole system, with no time to strip the audio.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Yeap so that is why all of our cams audio always disable when you activate it. US has different laws .
But people pick up audio at their own house this is illegal, that is a little strange

 

[wittaj]

Laws vary by country, state and local laws. In general if signs are posted, it is because of a law.

Many will place the sign so that people know the audio may be recorded as well. Some states that is an issue, although we haven't seen many instances of someone getting cited for a Ring doorbell. The laws simply haven't caught up yet.

If there were an issue with recording audio, one would hope the police would not be partnering with Ring and others to allow folks to be able to distribute their audio and video to them...If it were a big issue in your jurisdiction, I would hope they would not ask for it and jeopardize their case if a defense attorney could use it to make a claim to dismiss the case based on illegally obtained recordings....but we do see that happen on other items where they say the police illegally obtained information, searched, etc...

Amazon’s Ring now reportedly partners with more than 2,000 US police and fire departments

In general, if you can see the same thing you could standing on your property, it is fair game. Obviously do not have a camera zoomed and focused in on a bedroom or bathroom or a camera on the 2nd floor zoomed in over a privacy fence to see your neighbor sunbathing in the nude.

But with so many having wide angle cameras, you would see more standing on your porch looking in your neighbors window across the street than with that wide angle cam LOL.

Research the internet or talk to an attorney. These links may help:

Legality of Security Camera Usage & Placement in 2024

There are two types of laws that greatly influence the legality of security cameras: Expectation of privacy laws for video recordings and one- or two-party

www.security.org

Video Surveillance System Buying Guide

Video surveillance systems can protect your business. Learn tips for choosing the best video surveillance system and features for your security needs.

www.businessnewsdaily.com

Audio Surveillance Laws by State:Everything You Need to Know

When considering audio surveillance laws by state, most states have specific laws that govern the use of electronic recording of conversations of any kind.

www.upcounsel.com

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[CanCuba]

I record everything with audio. I have even submitted it to the police with audio. Never heard any issues from them. As @bp2008 said, its easy to strip the audio track out if desired.

As far as banning video recording, good luck. I don't need anyone's consent to record them in a place of public where they have no expectation of privacy and neither do any of the trailer park renters/owners.

Here's the thing. What if two people are standing in the middle of the street and a video doorbell picks up their conversation? If there's no signage beside said video doorbell, they would have a reasonable expectation of privacy if they believed they were alone and there were no microphones around.

My Color4K/X, SD1A404XB and VTO2211G-WP all pick up people's conversations on the sidewalk, street and even across the street. They have a reasonable expectation of privacy unless informed otherwise (signage, etc).

 

[wittaj]

Common sense would say if the conversation is outside in the public domain, one should not expect total privacy.

The current laws as applied literally may say something else.

Most websites generally state if a sign is present that audio and video is being recorded, that is sufficient as long as it isn't covert mics or parabolic mics.

 

[biggen]

I was thinking worst case where they subpoena you for footage and just take the whole system, with no time to strip the audio.

I've never had this problem. I've had the police call me and say they saw my cameras and was wondering if I had footage. I always tell them "I'll check" and then submit what I have. I suppose maybe if a higher profile crime that was committed and they may do what you suggest.

 

[CanCuba]

A quick Google search returned this. It's a Canadian case because I'm Canadian. Later, I'll do some more research and see if there has been a subsequent case but I doubt it. 2019 is relatively recent and the technology hasn't changed much since then.

TL;DR "In the decision, the SCC [Supreme Court of Canada] confirmed that, in short, privacy is not an “all-or-nothing” concept, meaning that just because a person is in a public or semi-public space does not automatically mean that there is no expectation of privacy. Rather, determining whether an individual has a reasonable expectation of privacy is a contextual assessment that must take into account the totality of the circumstances."

A Reasonable Expectation Of Privacy - Privacy Protection - Canada

One dissenting judge found that the students did have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

www.mondaq.com

 

[Ri22o]

Common sense would say if the conversation is outside in the public domain, one should not expect total privacy.

The current laws as applied literally may say something else.

Most websites generally state if a sign is present that audio and video is being recorded, that is sufficient as long as it isn't covert mics or parabolic mics.

You could probably argue intent.

If you are in the food court and sit down next to a couple and record their conversation without them knowing, it could probably be argued that your intent was to secretly record their conversation.

If you have a camera on your home that is recording your property and the abutting public spaces, then an argument could be made that this scenario is completely different in regards to the recording of the audio.

 

[wittaj]

I posted this thread awhile back and in this instance the police had a warrant and reviewed footage within hours of the incident. Presumably it was to ensure homeowner didn't delete incriminating evidence against his family members. I would assume they took the drive.

Unique situation allows crappy cameras to make an arrest

So an NFL player with a $48M contract has cameras installed on his house. Some kids were playing Nerf Wars around 8pm in the neighborhood and the NFL player and his sister and her boyfriend go out into the backyard with guns in hand thinking maybe they were under attack. Even though they...

ipcamtalk.com

But I have seen articles where people have said their recording device was confiscated.

 

[Sybertiger]

Let's mix it up a bit.....How is the landlord going to deal with vehicles with dash cams in them. Take it the next step....what about cell phones. It gets very messy real quick.

 

[Ri22o]

Let's mix it up a bit.....How is the landlord going to deal with vehicles with dash cams in them. Take it the next step....what about cell phones. It gets very messy real quick.

The real question is, why is the landlord/manager of the mobile home park enforcing local laws? They can enforce the by-laws and covenants of the mobile home park, but they are not officers of the law. I would have told them to pound sand and come back with a warrant.

 

[CanCuba]

The real question is, why is the landlord/manager of the mobile home park enforcing local laws? They can enforce the by-laws and covenants of the mobile home park, but they are not officers of the law. I would have told them to pound sand and come back with a warrant.

Yes, this is the real question. He clearly didn't consult a lawyer, as state in the article, and should. Changing the by-laws and/or covenants of the park would be his best option. But that opens a lot of legal wrangling. As @Sybertiger pointed out, now they'd have to deal with dashcams, bodycams, etc.

This sounds more like a long-running dispute between the park tenant and park management/ownership. And since it appears the latter got caught on the tenant's property, they're trying to cover their asses if/when they decide to do the same again.

Ah, trailer parks. A true study in human nature.

 

[wittaj]

We had an incident that was taken care of privately, but it was audio from my cameras that led to my neighbor being compensated by the person that hit their parked car.

The car was hit around the corner and out of range of my cameras, but the audio caught the sound of the car hitting the vehicle. Then driver and occupants decide to park in front of my house to investigate the damage on their car and freely talk about hitting the car and that they could buff out the damage of their car so that nobody thinks it was them...blah blah blah...one of the occupants said their dad was a lawyer and if the car doesn't show any damage he could get them out of it if anyone caught it on camera...blah blah blah...

Fortunately one of the other neighbors recognized the kids so the neighbor whose car was hit reached out to the parents. They of course denied everything and said there is no damage on their car. Neighbor then said they have video with audio that they will turn over to the police then if they do not want to take care of the matter privately.

The parents asked for a copy of the video and my neighbor said they wouldn't send it to them, but they are more than welcome to stop by and see the damage to the vehicle and watch the recording. They came and looked at the damage and saw the video and told them to get an estimate and they wold take care of it.

 

[CanCuba]

That's a terrific story. Even without actual video, your neighbour was still able to get compensated thanks to you system.

These "my dad's a lawyer" kids often know far less than the armchair attorneys we often run into. And always snot-nosed, mealy mouthed brats.

 

[wittaj]

That's a terrific story. Even without actual video, your neighbour was still able to get compensated thanks to you system.

These "my dad's a lawyer" kids often know far less than the armchair attorneys we often run into. And always snot-nosed, mealy mouthed brats.

I wish my neighbors would offer some money when I save them money by having useful video LOL. My system has literally help recover thousands of dollars worth of stolen stuff or repairs for parked cars hit. Even 10% of the value of the damage would add up LOL.

Maybe I should charge for the video LOL