Greetings and some IPCam setup/install questions

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OK, you've heard it before. But I havent.

We need 2-3 cams. No wifi.

What do I need (brands too please) to have IPCams?

POEswitch/injector?
Cams and Cat5-6 obviously.
Software on PC?
Dont need an NVR if the PC can do the recording right?
We want to use tablets to also view on WIFI. Is that a software function?
If you could lay it out like you were selling a package it to me Im sure it would benefit others as well...

Stay well!:banghead:
 

sebastiantombs

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:welcome:

Nobody here is going to tell you what you need, at least I don't think anyone will. You have to determine that. Every system is different and based on what you are trying to accomplish with video surveillance. Have a look in the Wiki, in the blue bar at the top of the page and read the information there on a real computer, not a phone or tablet. There are also multiple threads discussing PoE switches, securing your network which is an important aspect when using video surveillance cameras and many, many threads reviewing the current crop of cameras available. Always look for reviews that include motion at night and make sure you can actually see something constructive in that night motion. Stay away from Reolink, SV3C and other low end cameras simply because they cannot perform adequately at night and that's when they're probably needed the most.

That said, Blue Iris can run on a PC with no problem and can be accessed like any other machine on your network. It does have a built in web server and a GUI to go with it, thanks to @bp2008, that works on any platform that can use a Chrome based browser.

Incidentally, plan for expansion. I started with two cameras and am up to 21 now.
 
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Thanks both of you. Scenarios dont vary so much that 2-3 POE cameras of resonable quality, software that will record on a PC and a meathod of getting images over WIFI to tablets would be diffcult to recommend. Im asking for users who have set up this type of thing to recommend specific devices and brands.

For instance I read some scathing chat about what bullshit Blue Iris is.....so yep people have opinions...
 

sebastiantombs

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You can easily check that opinion on Blue Iris. Just download the demo version and try it for yourself.

Given your specs, or lack thereof, it is impossible to make any recommendation other than invest the time and have a look around for yourself. There are tons of reviews for everything you need. Try the search tool, magnifying glass on the upper right.
 

wittaj

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Just to further echo what others have said based on my own experience (that matches the advice you have been given).

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

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My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.

You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...

Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...
 
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OK so my take away is:
Choose cameras wisely
Blue Iris isnt bad and has a demo to try
Lots of users have used PCs to use as an NVR
But, I still dont know if WIFI forwarding is possible. Or if a POE switch is better than an injector. I personally dont need another humming box to act as an NVR. My PC is very robust and has 32 gigs of RAM. SSDs are dirt cheap if I need more than the 5 GB in it now for storage.

So to sum up: Good quality all around. POE is best with a brand that isnt proprietary.
Cams, Cables, POE device to power cams, Software on descent PC.
*Software MAY have a way to forward feeds to WIFI for tabets?

Thanks all!
Mask-up and stay well!
 

wittaj

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With Blue Iris on a computer, you can see the cameras via wifi on any device on your network - or OpenVPN to see them when remote away from your house.

There is no forwarding feed nonsense needed to wifi for tablets. You simply open a browser and type in the IP address of the computer BI is on and up comes the login screen and put in user and PW and you are in. Then bookmark it and slide the tab over to auto login and done.

POE switch or injector comes down to your comfort level and redundancy. An injector for each camera will probably cost more than a POE switch. But if you have an injector for each camera and one poops out, you still have the remaining cameras. If you have all the cameras on one POE switch and it poops out, then you lose all your cameras.

It doesn't matter how robust your machine is (but please let us know the CPU in it), but sending video streams to a computer uses CPU. Motion triggers uses CPU. Maybe you can do some light email and web surfing on it, maybe you can't. There will come a time though that the system CPU will max out trying to do too much. You are downloading a large file or streaming a movie and all the cameras are triggering at the same time and 100% CPU here you come.

If you have an NVR, that is essentially a low grade computer and you don't try to run anything else on it. Same with a computer for BI - it is considered an NVR at that point and for the best experience and functionality it shouldn't be doing other things.
 

Flintstone61

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You should probably get an Amcrest 8 ch NVR with POE switch built in. Go to Amazon and get 1 5442 series camera with a varifocal lens. Put the App on tablets and call it day. Then see how that works.
You cannot get experience virtually you have to experience it for yourself you can add blue iris to that system and compare and contrast the two and see the limitstions of one system over the other
 
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NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE.

I do still have my older box from before my latest PC build. Its an AMD R5 3400G with a Ti1080 display adapter, 32 GB ram, 2) 2 TB SSD drives and 1) NS SSD drive for the OS, etc.
Think that'll do? I could use an old laptop instead.
 

wittaj

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Not many people here use AMD for Blue Iris and up until the substream options, it probably would struggle, but we have had some members here recently start using AMD, but I do not know enough about the various models to tell you if that would be sufficient or not.

You can do a search here for Intel vs AMD for Blue Iris.
 
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Somehow I doubt there would be any latency or struggling. Nothing has managed to slow it down up to this point so I dont see how a few streams would. Its a multitasking monster.

But if its a problem then an NVR would perhaps be in the future. As long as its POE and can forward WIFI...
 
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Sorry WITTAJ I must have missed your WIFI and POE info scrolling. Good stuff!

Good stuff all!

BTW have an old NVR that may or may not have features beyong simply recording. I'll post after I get brand/model info.....
Thx!
 

wittaj

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There is no such thing as wifi forwarding LOL. Whether it is Blue Iris or an NVR, you either add an app to your wifi device or access the device via a web browser and typing in the IPaddress of the BI computer or NVR and username and password. You are overthinking it.

The BI price is to purchase it. At the end of the first year, you can purchase another year of support and updates for $30 OR....I REPEAT OR....just stay on whatever version you are on when the initial purchase is over and you will be fine. Most folks here are not on the latest and greatest version update - you find a version that is stable for you and you stay on it until BI adds a feature you want.

If you have an old NVR, you can probably feed that into BI, so download the demo and see if you like it. You simply open BI and select ADD CAMERA. Then type in the IP address and username and password and hit find/inspect and let BI find the proper credentials. Then about halfway down that page is an area that say CAMERA or CAMERA NO. and then just select one of the camera numbers. Then add camera and copy this camera and then change the camera from 1 to 2.
 

wittaj

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Hmm some of the zmodo are proprietary, but the BI demo is free, so load it up on your beast AMD and see if you can pull the NVR camera feed in. BI can accept analog DVR feeds as well.
 
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Eh, time to upgrade. No POE.

What do you guys think about using WIFI to connect the NVR to the network? Too slow? I used to do it with the ZModo.
The closet the NVR will be in is in middle of house. Computer and Tablets are on fringes of house.
It all comes down to difficuly attic space. Only the middle is stand-up, the rest is crawl space pretty much. I'd like to have it under my router, but then the camera lines couldnt be run....maybe outside under eaves like the cheapo cable guys do it.
 
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