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Swami

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I'm just looking at getting a small IP camera security system for my home.

I was originally looking at a Reolink NVR+Camera package for it's simple setup.

Now I'm wondering if a PC w/Blue Iris and IP cameras is a better option. Privacy is my biggest concern. Everything should function on LAN with no internet access.

I'd appreciate any recommendations for IP cameras as I know little about how they work. My home is in the city but in lower light to no light conditions. Ideally I'd like a doorbell camera connected to the same BI system.

Any help or guidance would be appreciated.
 

wittaj

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Welcome!

Good thing you found this site before buying the Reolinks. See thread below on all the people that are not happy with their performance.

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. DO NOT CHASE MP!!!

It is why we recommend to purchase one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

A few other tips....It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.



1642128622427.png




My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well. These cameras meet all your requirements.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.


I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.

You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal (the bandwidth is can process is a huge limiting factor), and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...

Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...


 

Flintstone61

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PC vs, Nvr: The NVR is plug n play( to a point, sometimes) The PC requires more up front effort, and may piss off/ frustrate a beginner. If your PC skills and basic network skills are there, you can do it.
I like that I can find an event/ video very very quickly, once I learned how to surf the Blue Iris Interface.
I'm not a fan of some of the NVR's event searching tools. Seems to be tedious, ( to me) and I will do it, but my experience with Blue Iris, ( after a lot of learning) is that this is the way to go.
I also run both an NVR and Blue iris Simultaneously.
 

sebastiantombs

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:welcome:

@wittaj is right on the money. Don't fall for Reolink, you'll be sorely disappointed, especially when it comes to night video. Night is when a video surveillance system is most important and Reolink can't produce blur free motion at night worth a hoot. If you go that way you'll rue the money you spent and wasted.

Blue Iris on a PC does involve a learning curve but it is very hard to find a VMS with the power and flexibility of Blue Iris for anything close to the price, currently around $60 USD with a "subscription" fee of $30 USD for constant updates and service availability. Do keep in mind that Blue Iris is basically a one man band, written and maintained by basically one person. That can mean a time lag in service replies.

Note I said a "video surveillance" system. Video cameras are for surveillance. An alarm system is for security.
 

Swami

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Welcome!

Good thing you found this site before buying the Reolinks. See thread below on all the people that are not happy with their performance.

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. DO NOT CHASE MP!!!

It is why we recommend to purchase one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

A few other tips....It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.



1642128622427.png




My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well. These cameras meet all your requirements.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.


I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.

You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal (the bandwidth is can process is a huge limiting factor), and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...

Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...


Thank you very much for your in depth reply.

The YouTuber that the video references is one of the reasons I started looking into Reolinks. So many on YouTube recommend them, I really had no point of reference to dispute their claims. I guess I should be glad I kept searching and found this site. :)

I work in IT with a lot of networking experience over the years. So I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty (so to speak) in a computer. I have my own full size rack, if that gives you some idea of my IT background. lol.

I did see a SFF desktop that was an i7 - 9700 but it was $750, so that was a bit high for a BI system.

I'll look in depth at your camera suggestions and check distance. I doubt I need anything that goes past 50ft and that would be the backyard.
 

wittaj

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Read that thread and do a search here and you will find many have been burned by the Hookup....

Any camera can give a great static image. I can make a crap camera look like noon when it is midnight out, but introduce any motion and it is a ghost blur.

In most instances, you want to get a camera that will perform at your location for the worse situation, which for most of us is at night when it is dark and there is little to no light. If a camera performs at night, it is easier to tweak settings to make it work during the day than it is the other way around.
 

Flintstone61

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The Forum operator, recommended the core i5 HP Elitedesk SFF G4-800 because it is one of the few pieces of hardware left out there that house 2-3.5" drives, alond with an onboard NVME m.2 SSD type slot for the OS drive.
Im running one in a rack and its very quiet and powerful.
 
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Swami

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:welcome:

@wittaj is right on the money. Don't fall for Reolink, you'll be sorely disappointed, especially when it comes to night video. Night is when a video surveillance system is most important and Reolink can't produce blur free motion at night worth a hoot. If you go that way you'll rue the money you spent and wasted.

Blue Iris on a PC does involve a learning curve but it is very hard to find a VMS with the power and flexibility of Blue Iris for anything close to the price, currently around $60 USD with a "subscription" fee of $30 USD for constant updates and service availability. Do keep in mind that Blue Iris is basically a one man band, written and maintained by basically one person. That can mean a time lag in service replies.

Note I said a "video surveillance" system. Video cameras are for surveillance. An alarm system is for security.
Thanks for your reply.

As I said, I'm not afraid to get into BI as long as I can get it working without pulling all my hair out. lol

I've already got an 8 port Cisco POE switch for this purpose, just need to find the right cameras for my setup.
 

Swami

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Read that thread and do a search here and you will find many have been burned by the Hookup....

Any camera can give a great static image. I can make a crap camera look like noon when it is midnight out, but introduce any motion and it is a ghost blur.

In most instances, you want to get a camera that will perform at your location for the worse situation, which for most of us is at night when it is dark and there is little to no light. If a camera performs at night, it is easier to tweak settings to make it work during the day than it is the other way around.
I did actually read that thread and that's one of the reasons I joined here and am looking for input. I couldn't believe how many supported that Youtuber and probably got burned by it.

I thought the night image would be most important but I'm trying to learn bit by bit.
 

Swami

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It's running 18 cams, and streaming a 16 channel DVR( when needed) at about 13%-17% cpu, split across 2 drives. Latest peek it looks like im running about 40 days of video, on about 13TB of space.
I think I'm going to be looking at maximum of 5 cameras and possibly a doorbell camera. So my needs are fairly basic compared to many.

Thanks for the PC recommendation!
 

sebastiantombs

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One more comment -

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Shorten it all to "always plan for more than you think you need". I started with two, now 21 and more to add. (OK, larger sized property), but still plan for more than you initially anticipate.
 

Flintstone61

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Keep a dustbuster around for the pulled hair.
As you know, nothing ever goes as planned, and everything takes twice as long as anybody tells you.
the default IP address of the Dahua and OEm Dahua products, NVR's and Camera's is 192.18.1.108.
The Hikvision default IP is ____ Help somebody.....
if you plug in a new cam to the switch, you'll find a browser GUI at that address to create a new password, and setup the static IP, exposure/fps. blah blah blah
 

wittaj

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^+1 LOL.

I started with four 2.8mm cameras and I was like "I can place one on each corner of the house and see my whole property and the whole neighborhood." A newbie loves the wide angle "I can see the whole neighborhood" of the 2.8mm fixed wide angle lens.

It is easy to get lured in to thinking the wide angle "see the whole neighborhood" because you are watching it and you see a neighbor go by and you are like "Look at that I can tell that is Heather out walking." and "Yeah I can tell our neighbor 4 down just passed by". Or you watch back the video of you walking around and are like "yeah I can tell that is me".

Little do we realize how much WE can identify a known person just by hair style, clothing, walking pace, gait, etc.

Then one day the door checker comes by. Total stranger. Totally useless video other than what time the door checking happened.

Then you realize that this wide-angle see the whole neighborhood comes at a cost and that cost is not being able to IDENTIFY who did it. These 2.8mm wide angle cameras are great overview cameras or to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet of the camera. At 40 feet out you need a different camera.

And most stick these wide angle box kit cameras on the 2nd story to be able to see even more, which then means any IDENTIFY distance is lost vertically.

So then we start adding more cameras and varifocal cameras so that we can optically zoom in to pinch points and other areas of interest to get the clean IDENTIFY captures of someone. While the varifocals are great at helping to identify at a distance, they come at a cost of a reduced field of view, just like the wide-angles are great at seeing a wide area, but they come at the expense of IDENTIFY at distance.
 

Swami

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Keep a dustbuster around for the pulled hair.
As you know, nothing ever goes as planned, and everything takes twice as long as anybody tells you.
the default IP address of the Dahua and OEm Dahua products, NVR's and Camera's is 192.18.1.108.
The Hikvision default IP is ____ Help somebody.....
if you plug in a new cam to the switch, you'll find a browser GUI at that address to create a new password, and setup the static IP, exposure/fps. blah blah blah
No doubt.

I'll work on finding the right cameras, and then let the insanity rain down trying to config.
 

Flintstone61

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this ebay seller, appears to have other listings of this model with core i-5's. this one is cheaper. at $271.
of course shopping ebay Canada is probably were your search results will come from?
 
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