Greetings From Canada

wittaj

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Since you said you are in IT, I think you will find Blue Iris not too difficult.

I had used NVRs for years and finally got fed up with how slow it was to find something, so I gave the BI demo a try and new within 20 minutes that it was superior to what I have had previously.

The NVR was more reactive - alerts were crazy so I turned them off. It would take to long to log in and do a search of anything interesting, so I quit looking at it unless I saw something happened or a neighbor called and said something happened to their car.

With BI, I can literally scrub my overnight alerts in under a minute. I will never go back to an NVR.
 

Swami

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I just saw this on Kijiji

DELL 9020 SFF DESKTOP-i7 4770 3.4-3.90Ghz (Turbo) Quad CORE 4th generation 8 THREADS WITH HYPERTHREADING
8GB DDR3 RAM Win 10 PRO 64bit 240GB SSD HARD DRIVE

$280 CDN
 

Swami

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If you can, for future proofing a little, try for a 6th or 7th generation CPU and WinPro is a given.
I may have to spend more than I'd like then to make sure I have a good future proof PC.

Should I focus on Intel QuickSync or get a PCI video cards for encoding?
 

wittaj

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With the substreams option, video cards aren't needed.

A member here is running 16 cameras on a 3rd generation at 12% CPU.

You only would want to add a GPU if you wanted to improve Deepstack AI run times.
 

sebastiantombs

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If you plan on using DeepStack also plan on adding a GTX1030 or GTX1060, or better, video card. Especially if you run DeepStack on more than a few cameras.
 

Swami

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With the substreams option, video cards aren't needed.

A member here is running 16 cameras on a 3rd generation at 12% CPU.

You only would want to add a GPU if you wanted to improve Deepstack AI run times.
Hmm. I was interested in having Deepstack run. Maybe if I can find a video card relatively inexpensive I'll add it for future DS use.
 

Flintstone61

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The 9020 will work. It's a little dated. I'm on one right now. Playing youtube, sufin the web, running 9 Cams on Blue Iris, and the tower can handle a 1060 video card, if you get a Dell Precision Power supply, with higher wattage.
or you can run an Nvidia Quadro card with out the high demand Power supply needed for DeepStack.
 

wittaj

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Hmm. I was interested in having Deepstack run. Maybe if I can find a video card relatively inexpensive I'll add it for future DS use.
You can certainly run Deepstack without a GPU as long as you don't go crazy on the number of cameras.

I was running 5 of my cameras with Deepstack on a 4th generation CPU just fine. I got a GPU to offload OpenALPR and that proved to be worse than not using it, so I now use it for DeepStack. Cut my Deepstack returns times by about 5-8 times.

Many here, including myself got an economical GTX1030 or PNY400 (should be able to find one under $150) and it is more than enough. But if you want to spend more, it will certainly improve the time for return. But I'd suggest trying it without a GPU and only get one if you are getting poor performance return times.
 

Swami

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You can certainly run Deepstack without a GPU as long as you don't go crazy on the number of cameras.

I was running 5 of my cameras with Deepstack on a 4th generation CPU just fine. I got a GPU to offload OpenALPR and that proved to be worse than not using it, so I now use it for DeepStack. Cut my Deepstack returns times by about 5-8 times.

Many here, including myself got an economical GTX1030 or PNY400 (should be able to find one under $150) and it is more than enough. But if you want to spend more, it will certainly improve the time for return. But I'd suggest trying it without a GPU and only get one if you are getting poor performance return times.
I'll probably end up getting a graphics card, I prefer to do things right the first time.

I just found this, so it looked promising:

Core i7 7700K Kaby Lake Quad Core 4.2 GHz
GIGABYTE GA-Z270M-D3H (rev. 1.0) LGA 1151 Intel Z270 Motherboard
Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W PSU
64GB CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 64GB DDR4 memory
Genuine W10 Pro
NORCO RPC-230 2U Rackmount Server Case
Intel SSD 600p Series 256GB NVMe drive
GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 1050 Ti OC Low Profile 4GB Video Card
2 port intel gigabit nic card

Asking $850, but might be able to get for less
 

wittaj

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A friend just recommended this as an out of the box solution when I mentioned I was looking at a video surveillance system.


Who wants to tear it a new one? any takers? lol

From my Post #2 on your thread LOL:

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Guess what his system was....you guessed it the Costco Lorex 4k system....after he saw what my cameras could do, he started replacing the cams from his Costco system, which was $1,300 box kit that supposedly had better cameras....
 

Oceanslider

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Whatever you do make sure to vote accordingly…

 

Swami

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So I think I'm just going to build a PC, the business class machines just aren't giving me the options I want. (and I just like to build systems)

This is what I'm looking at:
i7 9700 (k)
ASRock B365M PRO4
32GB DDR4 RAM
WD Black SSD for Boot
WD Purple 6TB
StarTech.com HSB3SATSASBA 3 Bay Aluminum Trayless Hot Swap Mobile Rack Backplane
Silverstone ST45SF-G 450W SFX 80 Plus Gold
iStarUSA D-214-MATX 2U Compact MicroATX Rackmount Chassis

Any suggestions for additions?
 

dudemaar

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nice, i would be adding good nvidia card to it, just to play arma3 :headbang:
 

Swami

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nice, i would be adding good nvidia card to it, just to play arma3 :headbang:
Darnit... I forgot to add that.

Yes I'm looking to get a 1050 ti 4GB low profile card. Just got to get it in a way that doesn't cost ridiculously too much.
 

Swami

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From my Post #2 on your thread LOL:

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Guess what his system was....you guessed it the Costco Lorex 4k system....after he saw what my cameras could do, he started replacing the cams from his Costco system, which was $1,300 box kit that supposedly had better cameras....
I didn't want to be rude to my friend, who was just being helpful, so I let him speak his piece. Never was I going to buy into a camera setup from Costco.

Here is a layout of how I envisioned the camera layout for my home. Any suggestions for improvements? or camera suggestions (now that you have an idea of distance)?
 

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Swami

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Welcome!

Good thing you found this site before buying the Reolinks. See thread below on all the people that are not happy with their performance.

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. DO NOT CHASE MP!!!

It is why we recommend to purchase one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

A few other tips....It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.



1642128622427.png




My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well. These cameras meet all your requirements.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.


I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.

You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal (the bandwidth is can process is a huge limiting factor), and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...

Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...


I found these two cameras off your recommendations.



What do you guys?
 

wittaj

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The 4K camera is on a 1/2.5" sensor.

The best 4K cameras are on a 1/1.2" sensor.

Most 2MP cameras are on a 1/2.8" sensor.

This 4K camera is closer in sensor size to the ideal 2MP sensor size than it is the ideal 4K sensor size, so it will not perform as well as night.

The 5442 is still a king of the mountain, especially once you look at the varifocal aspect.
 
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