I am unsure of this model camera. I dislike how the GUI doesn't show you the model number.
System VersionV2.800.0000000.7.R, Build Date: 2021-07-08
WEB Version3.2.1.1084503
ONVIF Version18.12(V2.4.5.788210)
Security Baseline VersionV2.0
Hacked DAHUA cam and added that names
- Thread starter TIGOS1
- Start date
System VersionV2.800.0000000.7.R, Build Date: 2021-07-08
WEB Version3.2.1.1084503
ONVIF Version18.12(V2.4.5.788210)
Security Baseline VersionV2.0
bigredfish
Known around here
.... patiently waiting since 2014 for someone to hack my PoE NVR without knowing my serial#, username, password, my non-port forwarded WAN IP, and bypassing my firewall....
Just an FYI..... To find Dahua, Amcrest and other Dahua-OEM camera info such as model number:
- Open a browser, input:
- Hit <Enter>
- Press <Control> and "F" at the same time to launch "Find", input "serial" and hit <Enter>
- Camera model number will be in the results.
Well at least now with the updated systems using that command no longer shows the passwords for the devices.. One of the things I didn't like about some of the older hardware using that command not only did it list all the devices on a NVR but also the passwords used.. At least now they show only ****** in place of the passwords.. So there is that..
bigredfish
Known around here
The other thing I find funny is that people seem oblivious to what their Internet connected TV does, or their connected alarm system, their PC's and phones, connected vehicles, or their connected IoT toasters, let alone inviting big brother in with Siri or Alexa...
But I'm going to get hacked and go to hell if I don;'t setup a proper VLAN for my surveillance cameras watching the possum in my backyard
But I'm going to get hacked and go to hell if I don;'t setup a proper VLAN for my surveillance cameras watching the possum in my backyard
You forget which site you on LOL.
I would say most here do not have internet connected TVs, IoT toasters or use Siri or Alexa LOL. Heck I turn wifi and data off on my phone unless I am actively doing something that needs it LOL.
I do have a streaming device but it is only plugged in when in use (yeah I am anal LOL) and is on its own VLAN with no access to anything else on my system.
And like I have said previously, of course a Windows PC is a target rich environment for hackers because there are so many Windows computers out there compared to NVRs. But it has practically daily updates to the OS and antivirus software to help combat it and close off vulnerabilities as they are found.
How often do NVRs and cameras have firmware updates? Not often. And when there is one, it is usually for a vulnerability that was discovered over a year prior.
One of the things that led me to this site was my NVR being hacked using P2P.
One of my friends printers and Foscam camera was hacked by P2P. As some point Foscam issued a security vulnerability and issued a firmware update. Basically the vulnerability was when logging into the camera with a web browser over HTTPS, the initial login to the P2P site is done using SSL. But then it establishes a connection to the HTTPS port again (for the media service) and sends all of its commands unencrypted. This means the username and passwords were being sent unencrypted. While this was a security vulnerability found in Foscam, every manufacturer has issued a firmware update for vulnerabilities, including Dahua or they wouldn't have shut down older P2P servers. I suspect this is how my friend was hacked and someone was sending pictures of her taken from her Foscam camera to her printer that she set up using P2P.
What is ironic is even Dahua suggests not to use P2P in their cybersecurity best practices....
Now granted they say it is highly unlikely if someone doesn't have the system username, password, and serial number, but it doesn't mean it won't happen in the future when some hacker finds another backdoor or exploit. But nonetheless, they are acknowledging it is a concern/risk.
But to completely dismiss the potential concern about P2P and blindly accept P2P when there are folks here like myself and others that have been hacked using P2P isn't doing a service to the forum community either.
Just because you haven't been hacked doesn't mean it can't happen. Fortunately you have a firewall device and monitor your system to know if/when it was attempted or happened, but many do not and find out much later.
Everything in life is a risk. Some people smoke and never get cancer, but it doesn't mean others don't or won't. Some people never get a speeding ticket, but it doesn't mean they won't or that others haven't. Some people have gasp used port forwarding and have never been hacked, but it doesn't mean others haven't.
But I do think we have a duty to inform what the risks are of each scenario.
The only way to completely prevent hacking is to not allow the device to connect to anything and truly be a CCTV system.
But that is unrealistic to most.
Most here will agree that port forwarding directly to the NVR is the least safe. Although the great internet has many articles that state it is OK lol like whatismyipaddress.com that states:
"Port forwarding is an excellent way to preserve public IP addresses. It can protect servers and clients from unwanted access, "hide" the services and servers available on a network, and limit access to and from a network. Port forwarding is transparent to the end user and adds an extra layer of security to networks. In short, port forwarding is used to keep unwanted traffic off networks. It allows network administrators to use one IP address for all external communications on the Internet while dedicating multiple servers with different IPs and ports to the task internally. Port forwarding is useful for home network users who may wish to run a Web server or gaming server on one network."
Then there is a debate as to if P2P or OpenVPN or something like ZeroTier is the next safer option.
Arguments are made both ways.
P2P you are relying on the NVR manufacturer's servers to not be hacked. You have zero control over those. Dahua has recently been shutting down the older P2P servers that were more easily hacked.
Same with ZeroTier or Wireguard or Tailscale and the like. You are relying on someone else's servers to make that connection. Anytime you are relying on someone else, it can be hacked.
OpenVPN is hosted locally, either native to the router or installed on a computer.
In theory you have the most control over this since it is all in your house.
But it relies on opensource coding that can be hacked as well.
You are relying on your computer and router to be up to date and not allow bad actors in. And sadly, like NVRs, routers are not routinely updated either. But that is the same regardless of the solution you are using.
So you take extra steps like the firewall device @bigredfish has that allows you to monitor everything.
Take steps to further minimize access to stuff.
Regardless of which platform you use to access your stuff remotely, have it be isolated from the rest of the system so that the entire system isn't compromised.
Set up procedures that lets you know whenever something connects or logs in to your device. Doesn't necessarily prevent the backdoor exploit, but take any steps possible to eliminate those risks.
Or just say F it and use port forward and scanning QR codes blindly like most of society. At the end of the day, most don't get hacked. It just sucks if you are one of them that do.
I would say most here do not have internet connected TVs, IoT toasters or use Siri or Alexa LOL. Heck I turn wifi and data off on my phone unless I am actively doing something that needs it LOL.
I do have a streaming device but it is only plugged in when in use (yeah I am anal LOL) and is on its own VLAN with no access to anything else on my system.
And like I have said previously, of course a Windows PC is a target rich environment for hackers because there are so many Windows computers out there compared to NVRs. But it has practically daily updates to the OS and antivirus software to help combat it and close off vulnerabilities as they are found.
How often do NVRs and cameras have firmware updates? Not often. And when there is one, it is usually for a vulnerability that was discovered over a year prior.
One of the things that led me to this site was my NVR being hacked using P2P.
One of my friends printers and Foscam camera was hacked by P2P. As some point Foscam issued a security vulnerability and issued a firmware update. Basically the vulnerability was when logging into the camera with a web browser over HTTPS, the initial login to the P2P site is done using SSL. But then it establishes a connection to the HTTPS port again (for the media service) and sends all of its commands unencrypted. This means the username and passwords were being sent unencrypted. While this was a security vulnerability found in Foscam, every manufacturer has issued a firmware update for vulnerabilities, including Dahua or they wouldn't have shut down older P2P servers. I suspect this is how my friend was hacked and someone was sending pictures of her taken from her Foscam camera to her printer that she set up using P2P.
What is ironic is even Dahua suggests not to use P2P in their cybersecurity best practices....
Now granted they say it is highly unlikely if someone doesn't have the system username, password, and serial number, but it doesn't mean it won't happen in the future when some hacker finds another backdoor or exploit. But nonetheless, they are acknowledging it is a concern/risk.
But to completely dismiss the potential concern about P2P and blindly accept P2P when there are folks here like myself and others that have been hacked using P2P isn't doing a service to the forum community either.
Just because you haven't been hacked doesn't mean it can't happen. Fortunately you have a firewall device and monitor your system to know if/when it was attempted or happened, but many do not and find out much later.
Everything in life is a risk. Some people smoke and never get cancer, but it doesn't mean others don't or won't. Some people never get a speeding ticket, but it doesn't mean they won't or that others haven't. Some people have gasp used port forwarding and have never been hacked, but it doesn't mean others haven't.
But I do think we have a duty to inform what the risks are of each scenario.
The only way to completely prevent hacking is to not allow the device to connect to anything and truly be a CCTV system.
But that is unrealistic to most.
Most here will agree that port forwarding directly to the NVR is the least safe. Although the great internet has many articles that state it is OK lol like whatismyipaddress.com that states:
"Port forwarding is an excellent way to preserve public IP addresses. It can protect servers and clients from unwanted access, "hide" the services and servers available on a network, and limit access to and from a network. Port forwarding is transparent to the end user and adds an extra layer of security to networks. In short, port forwarding is used to keep unwanted traffic off networks. It allows network administrators to use one IP address for all external communications on the Internet while dedicating multiple servers with different IPs and ports to the task internally. Port forwarding is useful for home network users who may wish to run a Web server or gaming server on one network."
Then there is a debate as to if P2P or OpenVPN or something like ZeroTier is the next safer option.
Arguments are made both ways.
P2P you are relying on the NVR manufacturer's servers to not be hacked. You have zero control over those. Dahua has recently been shutting down the older P2P servers that were more easily hacked.
Same with ZeroTier or Wireguard or Tailscale and the like. You are relying on someone else's servers to make that connection. Anytime you are relying on someone else, it can be hacked.
OpenVPN is hosted locally, either native to the router or installed on a computer.
In theory you have the most control over this since it is all in your house.
But it relies on opensource coding that can be hacked as well.
You are relying on your computer and router to be up to date and not allow bad actors in. And sadly, like NVRs, routers are not routinely updated either. But that is the same regardless of the solution you are using.
So you take extra steps like the firewall device @bigredfish has that allows you to monitor everything.
Take steps to further minimize access to stuff.
Regardless of which platform you use to access your stuff remotely, have it be isolated from the rest of the system so that the entire system isn't compromised.
Set up procedures that lets you know whenever something connects or logs in to your device. Doesn't necessarily prevent the backdoor exploit, but take any steps possible to eliminate those risks.
Or just say F it and use port forward and scanning QR codes blindly like most of society. At the end of the day, most don't get hacked. It just sucks if you are one of them that do.
bigredfish
Known around here
Well aware of what various security methods and potential exploits are.
I take reasonable basic precautions and don't advocate for people to be stupid about security. So you can cut the condescending crap
I take reasonable basic precautions and don't advocate for people to be stupid about security. So you can cut the condescending crap
- I'd venture 50%+ here have internet connected TV's... and have no clue how many sites they are communicating with in the background.
- Nobody here uses Alexa or Siri? LOL
- WireGuard is an encrypted client/server tunnel just like OpenVPN, just faster and arguably more secure.
- "And sadly, like NVRs, routers are not routinely updated either. But that is the same regardless of the solution you are using" - Yep
- I don;t use QR codes
- Yes a point to point VPN is more secure.
- Using a PoE NVR I have 1 device potentially exposed, not 12-15 with cameras on a LAN
Simply adding additional context for people that find this thread later trying to secure their system as to the risks of whatever system they employ if they want remote viewing....P2P can be hacked, Wireguard can be hacked, OpenVPN can be hacked, port-forward can be hacked. And in each protocol many have never been hacked while some are hacked. If they don't want hacked, don't be on the internet.
Sadly many come here AFTER being hacked and didn't take reasonable precautions like you do.
Sadly many come here AFTER being hacked and didn't take reasonable precautions like you do.
bigredfish
Known around here
BTW-
Tailscale is built on top of WireGuard - the VPN I use in addition to using Dahua P2P on some NVRs
tailscale.com
And I believe, though I'm not an IT security expert, that it works generally similar to Dahua P2P in that the P2P/DERP server is like a traffic cop that allows you to discover other approved devices. Once the handshake is made between the two, the traffic is point to point and does not need to go through Tailscale/Dahua P2P servers...
I believe ZeroTier works in a very similar fashion
Also on Routers
I use a Netgear router at home,. I enable and subscribe to its "Netgear Armor" security service which not only updates my router when needed but has reasonably good firewall capabilities built in for the router itself as well as any machine connected to my LAN. IMHO for an average home user its a great service and easy to use. Another layer of security that doesnt require an IT dept to implement for a normal home user with little or no IT knowledge
Tailscale is built on top of WireGuard - the VPN I use in addition to using Dahua P2P on some NVRs
Security | Tailscale
Learn how Tailscale reviews risks on a regular basis to ensure proper mitigations are in place.
tailscale.com
And I believe, though I'm not an IT security expert, that it works generally similar to Dahua P2P in that the P2P/DERP server is like a traffic cop that allows you to discover other approved devices. Once the handshake is made between the two, the traffic is point to point and does not need to go through Tailscale/Dahua P2P servers...
I believe ZeroTier works in a very similar fashion
Also on Routers
I use a Netgear router at home,. I enable and subscribe to its "Netgear Armor" security service which not only updates my router when needed but has reasonably good firewall capabilities built in for the router itself as well as any machine connected to my LAN. IMHO for an average home user its a great service and easy to use. Another layer of security that doesnt require an IT dept to implement for a normal home user with little or no IT knowledge
Many people will also flash routers that accept it either FreshTomato or Merlin firmware that provides security and bug fixes that are not available on stock vendor firmware and is more up-to-date than what the manufacturer provides.
bigredfish
Known around here
Also..
Mime is circa 2017-2018 but modern Daha NVRs have a host of security features available/built-in
Mime is circa 2017-2018 but modern Daha NVRs have a host of security features available/built-in
bigredfish
Known around here
Right, but those don't poll and scan the network and all attached devices automatically or on a schedule, Armor does.
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BTW-
Tailscale is built on top of WireGuard - the VPN I use in addition to using Dahua P2P on some NVRs
Security | Tailscale
Learn how Tailscale reviews risks on a regular basis to ensure proper mitigations are in place.
And I believe, though I'm not an IT security expert, that it works generally similar to Dahua P2P in that the P2P/DERP server is like a traffic cop that allows you to discover other approved devices. Once the handshake is made between the two, the traffic is point to point and does not need to go through Tailscale/Dahua P2P servers...
I believe ZeroTier works in a very similar fashion
Also on Routers
I use a Netgear router at home,. I enable and subscribe to its "Netgear Armor" security service which not only updates my router when needed but has reasonably good firewall capabilities built in for the router itself as well as any machine connected to my LAN. IMHO for an average home user its a great service and easy to use. Another layer of security that doesnt require an IT dept to implement for a normal home user with little or no IT knowledge
Is your firewalla device before or after the router and have you noticed anything getting thru one and not the other?
bigredfish
Known around here
It’s technically after the router. It’s plugged into a LAN port on the router. It has 3-4 methods you can deploy it. I opted for the “easy” method. It tricks the router and all LAN devices into thinking it IS the router, inspecting all traffic in/out of the router.
So to your real question, my router doesn’t see/log any external traffic. The Firewalla box intercepts it. Don’t ask me how
So to your real question, my router doesn’t see/log any external traffic. The Firewalla box intercepts it. Don’t ask me how
bigredfish
Known around here
If the built-in Wifi on the Firewalla box was stronger, I'd ditch the router as the Firewalla box can act as your main router with access points
bigredfish
Known around here
Mike A.
Known around here
- May 6, 2017
- 4,156
- 6,959
My Roku devices are like that too. Always at the top of the clients with the most traffic and ridiculous amounts of connections to various servers.
I also had a AMDVTENL16-S5 16 Channel NVR Dahua on the same network at the cameras. I did not have p2p enabled on that, it doesn't have any extra users added to it. On a side note, while documenting my camera network (ip, model, mac address) I found this NVR on the network I forgot about which was causing my cameras to change their encoding to H265 instead of H264, causing BI to use a lot of CPU time.