help with camera selection

[Stalker878]

I have been reading this very useful forum about camera placement and selection but would appreciate some input from the gurus!
I am building a new house - neighbors on 3 sides. Measurements on the plans are in mm or meters.

I have tried to come up with some ideas (please refer to the plans for reference numbers to cameras). I am not sure about ideal lens length so might just do all varifocus, but happy to receive guidance!

Camera 1 & 3 will be detection/recognition cameras - T5442 3.6mm (about 8m coverage each with slight overlap?)
alternatively a dual lens dahua camera in the middle high at 5.6m? then i would need extra camera at position 1 or position 8 to cover identification for the front windows?

camera 2 is for identification - 6mm camera? or one with worried about IR reflection off the close off walls though?

camera 4 i suspect will do better with a varifocus camera or one with a 6-8mm camera? mainly for identification of laundry door. or would it be better to have a camera on top of the laundry door + position 4 for mainly detection?

camera 5 is mainly for observation of the yard - might mount it high on the 2nd level eave

camera 6 - I am conflicted if its better to position it above the patio door or from the end of the patio pointing at the patio door/window? for identification purpose. varifocus.

camera 7 is tricky i feel due to likely IR bouncing off the walls - not sure how to overcome it. but likely a 6-8mm camera or varifocus pointing towards the road.

windows on the right side is uncovered - not sure how to position a camera for those unless i mount it on a pole along the fence? i am not sure if i position a camera along that wall it would capture much as it will likely bounce IR off the wall.

thanks everyone!

 

[Ri22o]

View attachment 176522View attachment 176523

I have been reading this very useful forum about camera placement and selection but would appreciate some input from the gurus!
I am building a new house - neighbors on 3 sides. Measurements on the plans are in mm or meters.

I have tried to come up with some ideas (please refer to the plans for reference numbers to cameras). I am not sure about ideal lens length so might just do all varifocus, but happy to receive guidance!

1. Camera 1 & 3 will be detection/recognition cameras - T5442 3.6mm (about 8m coverage each with slight overlap?)
alternatively a dual lens dahua camera in the middle high at 5.6m? then i would need extra camera at position 1 or position 8 to cover identification for the front windows?

2. camera 2 is for identification - 6mm camera? or one with worried about IR reflection off the close off walls though?

3. camera 4 i suspect will do better with a varifocus camera or one with a 6-8mm camera? mainly for identification of laundry door. or would it be better to have a camera on top of the laundry door + position 4 for mainly detection?

4. camera 5 is mainly for observation of the yard - might mount it high on the 2nd level eave

5. camera 6 - I am conflicted if its better to position it above the patio door or from the end of the patio pointing at the patio door/window? for identification purpose. varifocus.

6. camera 7 is tricky i feel due to likely IR bouncing off the walls - not sure how to overcome it. but likely a 6-8mm camera or varifocus pointing towards the road.

7. windows on the right side is uncovered - not sure how to position a camera for those unless i mount it on a pole along the fence? i am not sure if i position a camera along that wall it would capture much as it will likely bounce IR off the wall.

thanks everyone!

Definitely start with a varifocal and a test rig. Set it in the various locations and see if you can see what you want to see.

Below is the link to my thread that I usually post whenever someone asks about cam placement and focal length. It shows the difference that can be had by changing mounting height or going with a more appropriate focal length. In some instances I would have thought that going full 12mm on the varifocal would have been life changing, but it wasn't. However, compared to a similarly positioned 2.8mm it was night/day, but until you see what you can see (or not see) with a given focal length it can be hard to visualize what will work for a specific location.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I am treating this as a living document and will update it with new captures, information, etc from time to time since the journey and knowledge gained never ends. Even though it was originally posted in May of 2023, it is still very much relevant. I have gained a lot of knowledge since I...

ipcamtalk.com

See my notes below. I have numbered your comments above, for reference.

1. What is the mounting height of 1 &3?
   1. 5.6m is definitely pushing the limits (but possible for detection and recognition) and lower would definitely be better, especially on the approach to your front door. I would go two cams and not one central cam.
2. What is the mounting height of 2? From which direction is the approach for your front door?
   1. Many will place a 2.8mm or 3.6mm near/beside the front door for ID purposes when someone is at the door (any more focal length and you lose the FOV at the door). A combination of a longer focal length for the approach and a smaller focal length for when someone is at the door would be better.
   2. If you are considering a 6mm, at all, just go with a varifocal.
3. What is the mounting height of 4?
   1. For this location I would use a varifocal at position 4, with it turned and set for "corridor mode", to cover the area between house and fence. I would then have an additional 2.8mm at face level next to the door for ID.
   2. Ideally you would also have another varifocal on the back corner facing towards 4 and the front of this corridor.
4. Mounting 5 on the eave to overlook the backyard could work, but maybe consider one at each corner, pointed inward, just like on the front of the house. You will be able to go with a longer focal length, see more, and have more detail.
5. What do you want 6's purpose to be?
   1. It is possible you could use a 3.6mm mounted at the inside corner. This would allow view of the entire patio, into the yard, and monitoring of the door. You would not be able to 100% see the door though.
6. This would be a good use of setting the cam up for "corridor mode".
   1. I would also add one pointed the opposite direction of 7 towards the back, and one at the other end of that window bank pointed forward. If not there, then on the back corner of the house, pointed forward to cover the corridor towards the front.
   2. Definitely go with a varifocal if you are at all considering a 6mm.
7. Refer to 6.

 

[looney2ns]

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection | IP Cam Talk

 

[Stalker878]

Definitely start with a varifocal and a test rig. Set it in the various locations and see if you can see what you want to see.

Below is the link to my thread that I usually post whenever someone asks about cam placement and focal length. It shows the difference that can be had by changing mounting height or going with a more appropriate focal length. In some instances I would have thought that going full 12mm on the varifocal would have been life changing, but it wasn't. However, compared to a similarly positioned 2.8mm it was night/day, but until you see what you can see (or not see) with a given focal length it can be hard to visualize what will work for a specific location.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I am treating this as a living document and will update it with new captures, information, etc from time to time since the journey and knowledge gained never ends. Even though it was originally posted in May of 2023, it is still very much relevant. I have gained a lot of knowledge since I...

ipcamtalk.com

See my notes below. I have numbered your comments above, for reference.

1. What is the mounting height of 1 &3?
   1. 5.6m is definitely pushing the limits (but possible for detection and recognition) and lower would definitely be better, especially on the approach to your front door. I would go two cams and not one central cam.
2. What is the mounting height of 2? From which direction is the approach for your front door?
   1. Many will place a 2.8mm or 3.6mm near/beside the front door for ID purposes when someone is at the door (any more focal length and you lose the FOV at the door). A combination of a longer focal length for the approach and a smaller focal length for when someone is at the door would be better.
   2. If you are considering a 6mm, at all, just go with a varifocal.
3. What is the mounting height of 4?
   1. For this location I would use a varifocal at position 4, with it turned and set for "corridor mode", to cover the area between house and fence. I would then have an additional 2.8mm at face level next to the door for ID.
   2. Ideally you would also have another varifocal on the back corner facing towards 4 and the front of this corridor.
4. Mounting 5 on the eave to overlook the backyard could work, but maybe consider one at each corner, pointed inward, just like on the front of the house. You will be able to go with a longer focal length, see more, and have more detail.
5. What do you want 6's purpose to be?
   1. It is possible you could use a 3.6mm mounted at the inside corner. This would allow view of the entire patio, into the yard, and monitoring of the door. You would not be able to 100% see the door though.
6. This would be a good use of setting the cam up for "corridor mode".
   1. I would also add one pointed the opposite direction of 7 towards the back, and one at the other end of that window bank pointed forward. If not there, then on the back corner of the house, pointed forward to cover the corridor towards the front.
   2. Definitely go with a varifocal if you are at all considering a 6mm.
7. Refer to 6.

thanks for your input. i forgot to specify the height in the post but in the elevations I have positioned their heights.

camera 1/3 - about 2.7m high. 5.6m was only if i was using a single dual lens camera to cover the entire front yard
camera 2 will be about 2.4m on the ceiling close to the main door. approach would be directly in front of the main door as well as side ways from the garage. would 3.6 cause excessive FOV and possible reflection of IR off the walls??

camera 4 will also be about 2.7m
-do i need to cover that small walk way between the house and the fence? there is no entry way from that end.
-woundn't the current position of camera 4 be good enough to cover the laundry door and the window on that side?
-corridoor mode you are referring to turning the camera 90degrees?

camera 6 is meant to overlook the patio door and patio window. identification? about 2.5m on the ceiling to the patio.
should it be mounted along the wall of the patio door but that will be pointing outward to wards the yard
OR should it be mounted on the ceiling, pointing towards the patio door/window in combination? might not achieve full identfication as i might be seeing the back of a perp's head instead?

camera 7, will there be too much IR reflection from the proximity from the walls. same for the consideration of another camera at the back pointing in the same direction as camera 7 as i will be mounting it along the wall?

thanks

 

[Stalker878]

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection | IP Cam Talk

I have read that post with thanks!

I have considered the focal length but main issue is mainly placement for optimal coverage but not too excessive number of cameras to make it look paranoid!

I am aware of the saying that cameras multiply like rabbits...

 

[Ri22o]

thanks for your input. i forgot to specify the height in the post but in the elevations I have positioned their heights.

camera 1/3 - about 2.7m high. 5.6m was only if i was using a single dual lens camera to cover the entire front yard
camera 2 will be about 2.4m on the ceiling close to the main door. approach would be directly in front of the main door as well as side ways from the garage. would 3.6 cause excessive FOV and possible reflection of IR off the walls??

camera 4 will also be about 2.7m
-do i need to cover that small walk way between the house and the fence? there is no entry way from that end.
-woundn't the current position of camera 4 be good enough to cover the laundry door and the window on that side?
-corridoor mode you are referring to turning the camera 90degrees?

camera 6 is meant to overlook the patio door and patio window. identification? about 2.5m on the ceiling to the patio.
should it be mounted along the wall of the patio door but that will be pointing outward to wards the yard
OR should it be mounted on the ceiling, pointing towards the patio door/window in combination? might not achieve full identfication as i might be seeing the back of a perp's head instead?

camera 7, will there be too much IR reflection from the proximity from the walls. same for the consideration of another camera at the back pointing in the same direction as camera 7 as i will be mounting it along the wall?

thanks

It definitely helps now that I have realized there is another picture with elevation, haha.

I would definitely suggest purchasing a camera and trying the locations out as much as you can to see what works. However, if you're not able to, then I would run ethernet to as many possible install locations as possible and then decide later. Even if you need to run a loop and leave extra length, getting it 90% of the way to a location can be most of the battle.

Cameras do multiply like rabbits, but as you get them installed with specific purposes you realize there are other areas you would like to see. Or maybe something happens just out of frame and now you are adding another 1 or 3 cameras to make sure you are covered later on. I look at my camera system as an investment; let's say the whole thing has cost me $5000. I now have a higher chance of catching the vandals, thieves, stranger dangerers, etc that come around my house and, because of this, have a greater chance of recovering my loss. If I had not made the investment I would likely be out my loss PLUS adding on the cost of the system for the next time it might happen. I have had a couple friends get interested in putting in a system, but it never goes anywhere once I tell them it's more than just slapping up a couple cameras from Costco. I have also had neighbors comment on the number of cameras around my house. I tell them it started out as security but has now become a hobby. I also try to tell them that they all have a specific purpose or use but these are the same people who would be just fine using 2.8mm shitty Ring cams.

Camera 2:
This is my front door. The cam next to the door is a 2.8mm and is about face level. The other is a 3.6mm and mounted on the ceiling about 9ish feet. You can see how much of the wall is visible in each one. Depending on what you have for lighting you may be able to turn down the IR level to help prevent IR wash.


Camera 4:
You can never have too many FOVs or angles. Even if you don't install a camera right away, at least consider the option of having ethernet available to change or add later.
I can't tell which way 4 is pointing. It looks like it is looking at the door?
@samplenhold has a really good thread about having redundant/overlapping FOVs. Sometimes people just don't walk where you think they're going to.

Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views

A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...

ipcamtalk.com

Yes, corridor mode would be physically turning the camera 90* and then rotating the image back to normal in the web GUI.
You can see the difference in this thread.

Recommend a camera for this spot

Hello all, good morning. I’ve been lurking on here for a bit now, reading through various threads and coming to my own conclusions. I currently have around 6 IP Cameras around the perimeter of my home and they have all started to degrade over the years so I’m looking to replace them. I...

ipcamtalk.com

Camera 6:
I would consider having it point outward. Seeing the window/door doesn't do any good if you only see the back of the person's head.
However, you could always have one pointed at the door and one as an overview. My deck is set up with a 2.8mm overview pointing outward and then two varifocals at 12mm pointing inward covering the deck stairs and screen door. I also have one inside the screened porch






Camera 7:
This is another reason to test, when possible. Corridor mode and a varifocal can help. Having two varifocals pointing at each along a corridor allows you to cover the entire area and also work around possible issues created by IR bounce on the walls by being able to zoom them in a bit.
As for cameras pointing at each other, this is the rear view of my house. All of the lights you are seeing are either other cameras or IR floods. Unless you line them up perfectly, all you are likely to see is a light bloom. I have one that is pointed at the gate next to this view (practically right at this camera) and it is not a problem.

 

[mat200]

View attachment 176522View attachment 176523

I have been reading this very useful forum about camera placement and selection but would appreciate some input from the gurus!
I am building a new house - neighbors on 3 sides. Measurements on the plans are in mm or meters.

I have tried to come up with some ideas (please refer to the plans for reference numbers to cameras). I am not sure about ideal lens length so might just do all varifocus, but happy to receive guidance!

Camera 1 & 3 will be detection/recognition cameras - T5442 3.6mm (about 8m coverage each with slight overlap?)
alternatively a dual lens dahua camera in the middle high at 5.6m? then i would need extra camera at position 1 or position 8 to cover identification for the front windows?

camera 2 is for identification - 6mm camera? or one with worried about IR reflection off the close off walls though?

camera 4 i suspect will do better with a varifocus camera or one with a 6-8mm camera? mainly for identification of laundry door. or would it be better to have a camera on top of the laundry door + position 4 for mainly detection?

camera 5 is mainly for observation of the yard - might mount it high on the 2nd level eave

camera 6 - I am conflicted if its better to position it above the patio door or from the end of the patio pointing at the patio door/window? for identification purpose. varifocus.

camera 7 is tricky i feel due to likely IR bouncing off the walls - not sure how to overcome it. but likely a 6-8mm camera or varifocus pointing towards the road.

windows on the right side is uncovered - not sure how to position a camera for those unless i mount it on a pole along the fence? i am not sure if i position a camera along that wall it would capture much as it will likely bounce IR off the wall.

thanks everyone!

Looks good .. remember to drop one extra cable for each place you want to put a camera .. often we want to add more cameras down the line .. ( N+1 / N+1+ rule )

There are software applications which can help out ..

Once the framing is up you can get a better idea of the setups you imagine on the drawing ..

here's the locations I would be considering, and would need to add more if I want street / sidewalk coverage or LPR camera(s)

 

[Stalker878]

Looks good .. remember to drop one extra cable for each place you want to put a camera .. often we want to add more cameras down the line .. ( N+1 / N+1+ rule )

There are software applications which can help out ..

Once the framing is up you can get a better idea of the setups you imagine on the drawing ..

here's the locations I would be considering, and would need to add more if I want street / sidewalk coverage or LPR camera(s)



View attachment 176637
View attachment 176637

the one by the back patio, where would it be ideal? camera mounted on ceiling looking at the patio window/door? or mounted top of wall/edge of ceiling above the door where my yellow star, looking towards my back garden?

 

[Stalker878]

It definitely helps now that I have realized there is another picture with elevation, haha.

I would definitely suggest purchasing a camera and trying the locations out as much as you can to see what works. However, if you're not able to, then I would run ethernet to as many possible install locations as possible and then decide later. Even if you need to run a loop and leave extra length, getting it 90% of the way to a location can be most of the battle.

Cameras do multiply like rabbits, but as you get them installed with specific purposes you realize there are other areas you would like to see. Or maybe something happens just out of frame and now you are adding another 1 or 3 cameras to make sure you are covered later on. I look at my camera system as an investment; let's say the whole thing has cost me $5000. I now have a higher chance of catching the vandals, thieves, stranger dangerers, etc that come around my house and, because of this, have a greater chance of recovering my loss. If I had not made the investment I would likely be out my loss PLUS adding on the cost of the system for the next time it might happen. I have had a couple friends get interested in putting in a system, but it never goes anywhere once I tell them it's more than just slapping up a couple cameras from Costco. I have also had neighbors comment on the number of cameras around my house. I tell them it started out as security but has now become a hobby. I also try to tell them that they all have a specific purpose or use but these are the same people who would be just fine using 2.8mm shitty Ring cams.

Camera 2:
This is my front door. The cam next to the door is a 2.8mm and is about face level. The other is a 3.6mm and mounted on the ceiling about 9ish feet. You can see how much of the wall is visible in each one. Depending on what you have for lighting you may be able to turn down the IR level to help prevent IR wash.
View attachment 176622View attachment 176623

Camera 4:
You can never have too many FOVs or angles. Even if you don't install a camera right away, at least consider the option of having ethernet available to change or add later.
I can't tell which way 4 is pointing. It looks like it is looking at the door?
@samplenhold has a really good thread about having redundant/overlapping FOVs. Sometimes people just don't walk where you think they're going to.

Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views

A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...

ipcamtalk.com

Yes, corridor mode would be physically turning the camera 90* and then rotating the image back to normal in the web GUI.
You can see the difference in this thread.

Recommend a camera for this spot

Hello all, good morning. I’ve been lurking on here for a bit now, reading through various threads and coming to my own conclusions. I currently have around 6 IP Cameras around the perimeter of my home and they have all started to degrade over the years so I’m looking to replace them. I...

ipcamtalk.com

Camera 6:
I would consider having it point outward. Seeing the window/door doesn't do any good if you only see the back of the person's head.
However, you could always have one pointed at the door and one as an overview. My deck is set up with a 2.8mm overview pointing outward and then two varifocals at 12mm pointing inward covering the deck stairs and screen door. I also have one inside the screened porch

View attachment 176631
View attachment 176632
View attachment 176633
View attachment 176629

Camera 7:
This is another reason to test, when possible. Corridor mode and a varifocal can help. Having two varifocals pointing at each along a corridor allows you to cover the entire area and also work around possible issues created by IR bounce on the walls by being able to zoom them in a bit.
As for cameras pointing at each other, this is the rear view of my house. All of the lights you are seeing are either other cameras or IR floods. Unless you line them up perfectly, all you are likely to see is a light bloom. I have one that is pointed at the gate next to this view (practically right at this camera) and it is not a problem.

View attachment 176635
View attachment 176636

camera 4 i thought of having just one to overlook the entire back yard garden. mounted high just for overview.

camera 6 - how high are your patio ones mounted at?
-one above door
-screen door and stairs?

thanks!

 

[Ri22o]

camera 4 i thought of having just one to overlook the entire back yard garden. mounted high just for overview.

camera 6 - how high are your patio ones mounted at?
-one above door
-screen door and stairs?

thanks!

They are about 9 feet.