Hidden camera and IR led visibility and suggested cameras

[Kamalas]

Hello, have joined recently and thank you for this forum. During my visit so far I have viewed many posts before posting myself.

Question:
I wish to know what types of features I should look for or avoid, in a camera where the IR light or any other light I want to be virtually invisible. My Foscam FI8910W has IR-LED and I can see the little red lights on it.


Situation:
My goal is hidden surveillance. I do not want people seeing the camera or guessing they can see a camera.

I wish to monitor the front of my property through a window. The window is going to be upgraded with reflective tinting making it virtually invisible to see the inside camera from the outside (during the day). Camera distance to the window on the inside will be variable based on any signs of visibility. Hence i am worried that when the room is dark but open due to curtains not being drawn yet, that there could be a glow indicating the presence of a camera. I know most cams allow you to turn off the indicator light (or with tape) but the IR light is what concerns me. I want to be able to use the IR light.

The camera may be mounted like a dome in the window sill area or off the ceiling via a pole using a bullet type camera. Or via a computer monitor type arm that has adjustable elbows.

Technology background:
I am looking to replace my existing fleet in some form where currently I have Dlink 930L, Foscam FI8910W and an Onvif (this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Wifi-1MP-P2P-Pinhole-Spy-Surveillance-Wireless-WIFI-Network-IP-Camera-Onvif-/121694893155?hash=item1c5594b463:g:F3MAAOSwyQtVgm4d). I am monitoring from the front room (no IR and through a shade curtain) and from the garage when it is open.

I have a PC with sighthound software loaded. Any camera I choose needs to be IP and support both wired and wifi. The camera also needs to support port forwarding for remote viewing on my android phone.

I would also welcome suggested cameras. Budget is a concern. So around the US$150 mark.

 

[fenderman]

@Kamalas IR will not pass through a window, you will need an external IR light ..if you want it invisible then you need 940nm but it wont be as strong as 850.
Who are you trying to catch?

 

[Kamalas]

@fenderman thanks for the tip on IR not passing through windows. May have to rely on my sensor lights. If i can get the cameras hidden behind the tinted window then I may see night events as well as day events when i am not home.

I am trying to catch a serial prankster that seems to have a grudge and is doing random and annoying things. Have suspicions but want to prove them.

 

[tomw]

If the camera is behins a tinted/reflective film window, why would you use a crap ass lens camea like that?

Get a box camera (not a dome) with a decent autoiris lens.

 

[Kamalas]

@tomw thanks for the tip on the auto iris and box type.

I am currently looking at
DS-2CD4012FWD-(A)(P)(W)
1.3MP WDR Box Camera
http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Products_accessries_162_i5231.html

There is also a low-light version. I can only guess this is for indoor monitoring and is not for me. (?)
DS-2CD4012F-(A)(P)(W)
1.3MP Low-light Box Camera
http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Products_accessries_162_i5233.html

Am I on the right path?

Additional:
The low light box is just within my budget. The first one mentioned is not.

So I would welcome any other auto-iris suggestions.

Additional 2:
(I live outside the US. In Melbourne Australia)

Found these auto-iris cameras. Cheap ones.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-0MP-1080P-IP-Camera-Main-board-module-CCTV-chipboard-Network-Camera-with-2-8-12mm/32428341323.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.240.lQHtnb&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_4_505_506_503_504_502_10001_10002_10016_10005_10006_10003_10004_62,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_6149,searchweb1451318411_6448&btsid=2c8cb6f5-2bdc-4bc5-bdd8-3820ad475047

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Box-ip-camera-Full-HD-1280-960-1-3Megapixel-CMOS-Sensor-Security-network-camera-no-frame/32470309180.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.167.lQHtnb&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_4_505_506_503_504_502_10001_10002_10016_10005_10006_10003_10004_62,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_6149,searchweb1451318411_6448&btsid=2c8cb6f5-2bdc-4bc5-bdd8-3820ad475047

 

[tomw]

Actually, just a thought, one of these bad boys (https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/6964-5-MegaGixel-1-1-8-quot-low-light-destroyer-for-90) and an external IR lamp might make a killer setup.

Should be able to get close to $150 landed here in Aus. (I am in melb. too)

I just ordered one..but it's holidays over there so there will be a delay of 2 weeks.

It'll be replacing one of the 4mp hik's which I'll be selling for ~$80 on ebay.
Thing is it's got the Multilanguage 5.3.3 firmware (and can not be upgraded) which had issues with flashing under certain circumstances.
It does not seem to be an issue for some people and I think it's only an issue if recording to a NVR - not to an SD card.
Anyway - yours if you want it in a few weeks.

 

[fenderman]

Actually, just a thought, one of these bad boys (https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/6964-5-MegaGixel-1-1-8-quot-low-light-destroyer-for-90) and an external IR lamp might make a killer setup.
.

I dont think the cameras IR can be turned off on that longse camera. @klasipca would know for certain.

 

[klasipca]

Yes, IR cannot be turned off, I was putting tape over it when testing external IR.

 

[SyconsciousAu]

Hello, have joined recently and thank you for this forum.

Welcome aboard

My goal is hidden surveillance.

Try not to confuse your goal with the method by which you think it is best to go about it. The danger with that is you lose focus on the outcome you want, and ignore other potential ways to achieve it.

I am trying to catch a serial prankster that seems to have a grudge and is doing random and annoying things. Have suspicions but want to prove them.

Ok thats getting closer to what your goal is, but once you "catch" him on video, what are you intending to happen? Do you want video you can take to the Police? Do you want video you can out him to the world on Youtube? Do you just want to confirm your suspicions about who it is?

Take it a step further and ask yourself what you intend all of that to achieve. Is your ultimate goal to make him stop?

If that is your ultimate goal, deterring him with visible surveillance is one way to achieve it. Sure you might not have your "gotcha" moment but you have achieved your goal.

Question:
I wish to know what types of features I should look for or avoid, ...

Well that depends on what you define your goal to be. If catching him in the act is the outcome you desire then you need to think about the footage you are trying to capture. Do the incidents happen by day or night? Do they happen close to the house or far away.

Technology background:
I am looking to replace my existing fleet in some form where currently I have Dlink 930L, Foscam FI8910W and an Onvif (this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Wifi-1MP-P2P-Pinhole-Spy-Surveillance-Wireless-WIFI-Network-IP-Camera-Onvif-/121694893155?hash=item1c5594b463:g:F3MAAOSwyQtVgm4d). I am monitoring from the front room (no IR and through a shade curtain) and from the garage when it is open.

ARRRRGGGGH! Cameras under 2Mp! It burns! it burns!

Any camera I choose needs to be IP and support both wired and wifi.

Why? Wifi should be avoided wherever possible, and why spend your limited budget on wifi cameras, which cost more then their wired counterparts, if you dont have a specific need for wifi?

I would also welcome suggested cameras. Budget is a concern. So around the US$150 mark.

I think you will need to revisit your budget, or your expectations, at this stage. Definitely have a hard think about what you wan't to achieve, why you want to achieve that, and how much you are willing to spend to get there.