Hik? or Dahua 4MP turret, wide field of view with some type of e-zoom?

[marklyn]

I was mindlessly searching for different outdoor cameras a few months ago and thought I remembered seeing a Dahua or Hikvision (fixed) turret camera that had a wide FOV that 'zoomed' in on movement triggers.
I don't recall the details and I'm sure there is a term for this type of technology and that is why I'm asking because I want to add such a camera to the front of my house.
I do remember reading that if something moved in the field of view the camera could electronically zoom into that area or something on that line.
I could get a traditional PTZ camera dome but wanted something smaller in size and no moving parts.
If anyone knows what I'm asking and can point me to a better quality camera with this feature (ie: Hik, Dahua, etc.), I'd appreciate the lead.

 

[wittaj]

The only cameras that do what you are saying would be autotracking PTZs (or some consumer grade products like Arlo that will digitally do that - but it is more gimmicky than practical).

Hik and Dahua do sell varifocal turrets that allow you to optically zoom in, but they are more of a set it and forget it, not to be used for daily zooming in and out and certainly do not follow or zoom in on trigger.

This would be the PTZ to get - the 49225 - but you have to buy it from @EMPIRETECANDY or it won't have autotracking. And he is usually cheaper anyway....

 

[marklyn]

The only cameras that do what you are saying would be autotracking PTZs (or some consumer grade products like Arlo that will digitally do that - but it is more gimmicky than practical).

Hik and Dahua do sell varifocal turrets that allow you to optically zoom in, but they are more of a set it and forget it, not to be used for daily zooming in and out and certainly do not follow or zoom in on trigger.

This would be the PTZ to get - the 49225 - but you have to buy it from @EMPIRETECANDY or it won't have autotracking. And he is usually cheaper anyway....

It's not really auto tracking I'm after... I want a turret that has a larger FOV, like 2.8mm camera, maybe 6-8MP. If the camera triggers then the resolution would be good enough to zoom into the video without sacrificing quality so I could better see details of the triggered event. I'm sure I've seen something like this before but I don't remember if it was a named feature but I do recall it was on a higher quality/better build camera like Hikvision or Dahua and I'm remembering the price point was around $200. Hoping this info helps jog someone's memory. Thanks.

 

[wittaj]

It's not really auto tracking I'm after... I want a turret that has a larger FOV, like 2.8mm camera, maybe 6-8MP. If the camera triggers then the resolution would be good enough to zoom into the video without sacrificing quality so I could better see details of the triggered event. I'm sure I've seen something like this before but I don't remember if it was a named feature but I do recall it was on a higher quality/better build camera like Hikvision or Dahua and I'm remembering the price point was around $200. Hoping this info helps jog someone's memory. Thanks.

Nope, a camera like that doesn't exist.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

I think you are mixing up things. Hik and Dahua make a varifocal turret that you optically zoom from 2.8mm to 12mm to the field of view you want, but it is a set it and forget it type thing.

Now can you get away with a little bit of digital zoom in the daytime, yes and with a camera on the proper MP/sensor ratio it can happen, but at night the results are not that good.

See this recent thread I compiled:

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[marklyn]

I believe I was confusing what I'm looking for with a fisheye type camera with dewarping capability. I just saw a Hikvision video demo of one where you can "zoom" into the part of the video for a closeup of something.
I guess I was thinking I saw this on a standard fixed turret camera with a wide angle view.
My goal is to use a camera with a wide field of view to capture the a large portion of the street in front of my house. But, using a standard wide angle camera (2.8mm) doesn't give me great definition to see closer details.
I already have two traditional PTZ cams on each corner of the house but they're set to zoom into specific areas during night time. My current Hikvision 4mm turret camera is mounted in the middle of the front of my house. Just wanted more FOV and better detail is what I was after.

 

[mat200]

I believe I was confusing what I'm looking for with a fisheye type camera with dewarping capability. I just saw a Hikvision video demo of one where you can "zoom" into the part of the video for a closeup of something.
I guess I was thinking I saw this on a standard fixed turret camera with a wide angle view.
My goal is to use a camera with a wide field of view to capture the a large portion of the street in front of my house. But, using a standard wide angle camera (2.8mm) doesn't give me great definition to see closer details.
I already have two traditional PTZ cams on each corner of the house but they're set to zoom into specific areas during night time. My current Hikvision 4mm turret camera is mounted in the middle of the front of my house. Just wanted more FOV and better detail is what I was after.

HI @marklyn

It's all about basically "pixels on target" .. the only way to achieve that is more pixels .. larger sensor, more sensors .. larger lens, more lenses ..

results in either bigger more expensive camera(s) .. or more cameras.

No magic solution to this.. for most of us, we try to maximize the value / performance .. and get multiple cameras that are reasonable ..

 

[sebastiantombs]

Bottom line is don't believe what you see from Hollywood.

 

[wittaj]

A fisheye would be even worse trying to digital zoom as the focal length on those are under 2mm

Look at the thread I linked where I show what happens when you take a wide angle camera and digital zoom in!

You may get away with a little, but it doesn't take the place of a camera optically zoomed in to the same area.

I see in your signature line you are using BI, why not set up clones of the 4mm to point the PTZs to certain areas upon movement? You would have far better success with that than trying to digital zoom, especially at night.

Look at it this way - You have a 4mm that is obviously optically zoomed more than a fisheye - how is that digital zoom working out for you at night? A 2.8mm would be even worse.

 

[mat200]

Perhaps you were watching something like this? ( multi-lens cameras .. )



ref:

 

[marklyn]

A fisheye would be even worse trying to digital zoom as the focal length on those are under 2mm

Look at the thread I linked where I show what happens when you take a wide angle camera and digital zoom in!

You may get away with a little, but it doesn't take the place of a camera optically zoomed in to the same area.

I see in your signature line you are using BI, why not set up clones of the 4mm to point the PTZs to certain areas upon movement? You would have far better success with that than trying to digital zoom, especially at night.

Look at it this way - You have a 4mm that is obviously optically zoomed more than a fisheye - how is that digital zoom working out for you at night? A 2.8mm would be even worse.

I wouldn't actually consider a fisheye for this, but that is probably what I was confusing my original post with.
I'm not actually using a digital zoom on the 4mm I have, it's just fixed at no zoom.
I've not done anything with cloning cameras yet but I'm not quite following what you are saying regarding cloning and pointing ptz's. Can you elaborate a bit please? I'd like to look into that strategy.
On a slightly different note, I recall about 2-3 years ago BI was looking to incorporate tracking in the software. I assume that idea was abandoned?

 

[wittaj]

What I meant was take an image from the 4mm at night and then digital zoom it to try to make the object bigger - it probably isn't working out very well, and that would be the same issue with any camera that digitally zooms in with motion. It has to be optical.

The biggest concern folks here say about a PTZ is it is always looking the wrong way and fixed cams are the way to go.

And that is true, a PTZ shouldn't take the place of a fixed cam, but in compliment with a fixed cam, it is an incredible add-on.

So I call it the clone and zone or the Poorman's autotrack LOL. A couple different ways to go about it.

So a cool feature with BI is you can clone a camera, which means it is basically an existing camera you clone to do a different function, whatever that may be.

So a wide angle FOV cam gets the whole front yard - obviously you are not going to get details with it, but for a broad overview, it serves its purpose.

So I created 7 clones of the camera and then went into the motion settings and one of the clones has Zone A, another has Zone B, etc.

There is a function in there to say if motion happens in this Zone, call up preset X on the PTZ and start recording.

So the presets are set to where if someone is walking down the street and when they enter Zone A, B, or C, it will call up a specific preset zoomed in to that area. Then if someone gets into D or E, it will move to a preset zoomed in even closer.

It works surprisingly well and mimics autotracking fairly well.

The nice thing about it is that is doesn't matter where the PTZ is pointing, it will move to whichever zone is activated.

So without the poorman's autotrack, if you had the PTZ pointed at Zone A but someone came from Zone B to your porch, the PTZ will never get that because they never got in the view of the PTZ.



I have since advanced on to autotracking PTZs, so I still use this concept, but not as many zones. I then moved this non-autotrack PTZ to the back and recreated it there to get coverage of my entire backyard.

Here is a thread I put together on how to set it up.

Using Spotter Cameras to direct a PTZ where to look in an NVR or Blue Iris and setting a spotter cam as a priority in Blue Iris

We get this question from time to time, so I thought with the recent addition to BI, it made sense to have a thread we can point to. Previously in BI, if you had more than one spotter cam, you could not make one a priority, so if spotter cam #1 triggered the PTZ and it starts tracking and...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[marklyn]

Thanks Wittaj,
I've always known about cloning but never found a practical use for them until you described your scenario above, so many thanks for that.
I will definitely look into cloning but couldn't I just set, say 2-3 zones up (on my middle of the house fixed Hikvision) and when something comes into one of those zones, have both of my corner PTZ's move to that zone temporarily?
Additional thoughts welcome.

 

[wittaj]

Oh yeah, you can definitely do that as well. You can do as few or as many as you want.

I went a little overboard LOL just trying to mimic autotrack.

 

[marklyn]

Oh yeah, you can definitely do that as well. You can do as few or as many as you want.

I went a little overboard LOL just trying to mimic autotrack.

I think my biggest challenge will be to set up 3 zones on my middle camera, left, middle area, and right without false triggers. The trick (during daytime profile) will be to not trigger on the tree shade shadows so I imagine a lot of tweaking will be needed for that. The night profile should be easier I think.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah definitely some tweaking, but you may also decide during the day you get good enough coverage and with some digital zoom after the fact the image is still good and just do this for the nighttime profile?

Lot's of different options and opens up the opportunity for a more robust system.

 

[marklyn]

I think my plan will be to use the middle Hikvision camera as a "zone trigger" of sorts to trigger the other two cameras to move position & record the zone that was triggered on my middle camera. My thinking is that if someone comes from the sidewalk into my front yard or driveway that they could move out of view of my two side PTZ cameras unless the middle camera triggers in those zones and repositions both side cameras to get a good video of the trigger event. At night, both my PTZ corner cams zoom in a little bit to get a tighter view of my yard and drive way but if some approaches 10' of my house then they are out of view of those two cams. This way I could get a great (closer) video of them, or so I'm thinking.

 

[wittaj]

Sounds like a good plan!