Hikvison - H264+ Faulty continous recording

Brocky120

n3wb
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I have a 6 camera's,

5x DS-2CD2142FWD-I
1x
DS-2CD2132FWD-I

All the 4MP camera's are set to H.264+ encoding, all are fully up to date and the box is a
DS-7716NI-E4 / 16P running firmware 3.4.6.

My recordings are all set to continuous but some of the camera's are not recording properly. Its very intermittent. I have attached some pictures to show what I mean. It doesn't seem to have this issue when NOT using H.264+ encoding. Anyone else have this issue?

1.png2.png3.png

Thanks,
Josh
 

vrbikk

n3wb
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
I have same problem with 7732 and 7608 using 4MPx and 5MPx cameras... without H264+ it works fine. Lost sequences are not synchronous on all cameras. Iam very interested in finding solution. Log is empty for exceptions or recording errors.

zaznam.PNG
 

nayr

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
9,329
Reaction score
5,325
Location
Denver, CO
sounds like the solution is to disable h264+ encoding..
 

vrbikk

n3wb
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
yes, it is... but if you promise your customer 14 days of continual recording on 2TB HDD and he gets 7 days instead, its problem :)
 

nayr

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
9,329
Reaction score
5,325
Location
Denver, CO
how the fuck do you get 14 days of 24/7 recording with that many cameras @ that resolution? the math's not working out for you even if you enable it.. I have same amount of cameras, at lower resolutions recording continuously using h264+.. and I could not get more than 13 days out of a 4TB disk.. now I am at 10TB and I can fit just over 3 weeks, but I added a couple cameras to the mix.

sounds like you made bullshit promises.. getting this working wont dig you out of it.. better start lowering the resolution, fps, and bitrate in half if you want any chance.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

vrbikk

n3wb
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
chill nayr, you dont know how many cameras i have and it was example situation where someone could get into

7732 - 4TB HDD - 11x 4MPx + 1x 3MPx cameras (H264+ off to make it work) 7days of recording -> could be better dont you think? :)

and today we have installed 7608 - 2TB HDD - 5x 5MPx cameras with same problem H264+

anyway, I am here for finding solution
 

nayr

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
9,329
Reaction score
5,325
Location
Denver, CO
sorry I thought you were the OP w/6 cameras, trying to record continuously to a 2TB hdd.. my bad

the real world benefits I saw from using h264+ was very minimal.. its not a feature I would demand worked, but anytime you compress something more it requires more resources to do so.. most of the times I see dropouts on NVR's like this your overloading the camera or NVR.. so you have to backoff the bitrate to find solid ground.
 

vrbikk

n3wb
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
I observed that recording at night is OK, because BandWidth drops to about 10 Mbits (5x5MPx cameras case with H264+ on) and at the morning problem starts again at about 30 - 40 Mbits with H264+ on. So it looks like even if the NVR has capability to handle 80 Mbit recording at H264 (7608), it only handle about 40 Mbits of H264+ because it takes more resources.

but, OP has a lot free Bandwidth anyway
 

Brad_C

Banned
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
167
Reaction score
54
I had a quick look at the "h264+" stream a year or so ago and the main "feature" seemed to be _really_ stretching out the I frame intervals on a variable basis (so effectively variable length GOP). At one point I was seeing an I frame every 5-7 seconds. There were some other tweaks to the actual encoding that I never bothered to get into because it was too unreliable when recording onto anything other than a Hikvision product.
It also really suffered badly with noisy images. I'm not necessarily sure it has been well thought through but works great in a lab or on a darkfighter with the shutter speed set to 1 second (super low noise but useless image).
 

vrbikk

n3wb
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
videoquality.png
hi Brad_C, thank you for respond

With H264+ ON, I have two options for bitrate in cameras (FW 3.4.1), but NVR has locked option for bitrate when is H264+ ON :( (in the second picture) I Frame is locked too
videoquality2.png

EDIT:
yesterday I turned one of five cameras to classic H264 and that camera works well, but since this morning (IR goes ON and Bandwidth increase to 30-35 Mbits I have almost no recording from other four cameras with H264+... weird :(
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Brad_C

Banned
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
167
Reaction score
54
Yeah, I don't really know much about the recorder part of it as ive only briefly run a Hik recorder as a test. I run a few different VMS for testing. I did note you can't change the I frame interval and what you actually get is nothing like a normal h264 stream, although a number of VMS can decode it, it plays havoc with seeking, changing playback speed and reverse playback becomes impossible.

i always found the issues far outweighed any advantage in bitrate. Storage is cheap compared to the time taken to try and coax it into working reliably under all conditions.
 

LaurentR

Young grasshopper
Joined
May 17, 2016
Messages
58
Reaction score
18
I am pretty happy with H.264+

For reference on my H.264+ cameras, as far as continuous storage needs, averaged over my std 30-day window, all at 10fps, H.264+ max quality, I get:

Best case:
4MP indoor with typical home activity (BLC on 24h a day, IR at night): 4.3GB/day (0.4Mb/s average!)
Lowest bit rate averaged over a 30min recording: 0.15Mb/s (that's at night - during the day it gets down to 0.21Mb/s).

Worst case:
4MP outdoor with vegetation moving (WDR during the day, BLC and IR at night): 21.7GB/day (2.1Mb/s average)
High

Also:
2MP darkfighter outdoor (WDR during the day, BLC at night, no IR): 8.3GB/day (0.8Mb/s average)

Overall, with H.264+, I fit 4x4MP and 2x2MP x 30 days at 10fps / max quality in ~2.25GB
Using a Synology NAS, no drops and <<1% CPU used (I use on-camera motion detection, so the NAS doesn't do any work).
 

vrbikk

n3wb
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
yea I have some systems that works with H264+ for example:

7616 - 2TB HDD - 8x4MPx (H264+ ON) + 3x3MPx (H264) and it just works fine, I noticed that backwards playing is very laggy with H264+ but still usable.

7716 - 2TB HDD - 2x4MPx (H264+ ON) + 1x5MPx (H264+ ON) + 1x1,3MPx (H264) also works pretty pretty well
- here I am using WIFI bridge for 4MP and 5MP camera and it took max 6Mbits for both (H264+ very usefull again)


Could it be hardware issue, if H264+ is hardware decoded?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Brad_C

Banned
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
167
Reaction score
54
Could it be hardware issue, if H264+ is hardware decoded?
Yeah, it could be. Some software decoders I tried could mostly manage the h264+ stream, so it does not deviate too far from the standard h264 spec. The reality is if they ever plan on using hardware decoders it *must* be compliant with standard h264 in the bits that matter to the decoder, and that's quite a bit these days.

It'd be interesting to do some real side by side tests to compare things like minor scene changes, motion compensation and response to gross scene changes.

Unfortunately I just tested on a 2CD6026FHWD and remembered that enabling h264+ knocks out the remainder of the h264 encoder, so I can't compare it with the third stream and it limits the second stream to 704x576, so it's not a fair fight. Last time I looked at it I used a couple of 2CD4526FWD domes next to each other with one on standard and the other on h264+, but that was last year and it's all a bit hazy.

I just plugged it into a Geutebruck VMS and that had no trouble decoding the h264+ stream, but the camera switching time took lots of seconds while it waited for an I frame.
It also played flawlessly with vlc or mplayer whereas last time I tested I was getting blockies and jaggies tearing the stream intermittently.

Now having said that, this camera is on about 5 firmware revisions (and many months) later than when I originally tried this, but it suffers from the same issues in that waiting for an I frame is like waiting for a London bus. That makes rapid camera switching impossible and also means seeking in the stream is exceedingly difficult (for reverse playing for example).

I'll look at it a bit deeper in a week or two when I get some more time. Cursory investigation says encoding performance has improved over the last couple of firmware revisions, but you lose the third stream when you enable h264+ along with the other performance and reliability issues others have noticed. You are going to get that with a proprietary extension to a standard however.
 

Brocky120

n3wb
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Update on this...

I have done a full factory reset and set the Camera's up again and its still the same, however not as bad, it seems to happen intermittently when a recording file gets to a set size (1016MB) and then it delays for a minute or so before starting again. The weird thing is its only certain camera's that do it. Only the Camera at the back, and at the side does it and I don't know why.
 

andyblac

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
165
Reaction score
25
i had this issue, and after serval weeks with hikvision on the matter, we found there is a bug in the firmware related to the I-Frame size (not frequency setting in GUI) and that linked with the Sharpness setting and bitrate size,

a good start point is set ALL YOUR cams to a max Sharpness of 18, and MAX Bitrate of 6 Mbits.

and see how you get on.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Brocky120

n3wb
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
i had this issue, and after serval weeks with hikvision on the matter, we found there is a bug in the firmware lelated to the I-Frame size (not frequency setting in GUI) and that linked with the Sharpness setting and bitrate size,

a good start point is set ALL YOUR cams to a max Sharpness of 18, and MAX Bitrate of 6 Mbits.

and see how you get on.

Nice one mate, I'll take a look now and see if it makes a difference.

Do you have to change the bitrate via the NVR with H.264+ on. It wont let me change it via the browser with H.264+ turned on?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

andyblac

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
165
Reaction score
25
Nice one mate, I'll take a look now and see if it makes a difference.

Do you have to change the bitrate via the NVR with H.264+ on. It wont let me change it via the browser with H.264+ turned on?
correct, turn off H264+, set bitrate, then re-enabled H264+, do via nvr or web, but only with H264+ off.
 

vrbikk

n3wb
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Hi guys,

After several weeks of testing on various devices I was forced to return old 7732 NVR to my HIKVISION dealer. Other problematic devices has been returned to H264 and it works fine.

Here is what i have found about this issue (Based on about 400 IPcams installed so far):
- this issue occurs only on NVRs that has been made BEFORE firmware that supports H264+ (idk 3.3.4?), every new device (4k line) has no problem at all
- issue is not based on camera type or camera FW from 5.3.6 - 5.4.0 (if it supports H264+)
- it must be HARDWARE PROBLEM of NVR and I tried many many many configurations with various firmwares and devices... no chance to get it work properly

So... if you buy NVR that has been released before official FW that supports H264+ (and it comes updated or you will update it to latest FW that supports H264+) there is CHANCE that it will not work :) and that chance is not so small
 
Top