Home internet speed effects

[cam26]

Does your home internet speed affect the BI system?
For example, internet in my area is terrible and the max I can currently get is 50 down and 5 up. I notice when I view BI remotely it can be jittery. Could this be related to internet speed?

Also, I am getting ready to switch to fiber optic which is currently being installed in the hood. I’ll be getting 1gb up and 1gb down. Will this make the BI system smoother and faster, both internally and externally?

 

[TonyR]

For example, internet in my area is terrible and the max I can currently get is 50 down and 5 up. I notice when I view BI remotely it can be jittery. Could this be related to internet speed?

Poor baby! This area has been living with MUCH, much lower than that for years and to this day! How about 3.0 meg down/512K up for 10 years then finally in 2020 some decent 30 meg down / 4 meg up ? We are blessed!

To answer your question, there's no reason why remote viewing of BI should be "jittery" at 50 down / 5 up; mine is very good 30 down / 4 up....you've got something else going on.

• Are any cams wireless?
• Are any cams or POE switches plugged in to the LAN port(s) of the router?
• Have your performed ALL of the recommended server optimizations in the Wiki?
• Please post a drawing of your current LAN schema.
• What is the version of BI on server and the version of app(s)

 

[TVille]

You've been watching to many Comcast/ISP commercials. My cable is rated at 300/10, and they claim this is good for like 4 computers.

The reality is that most wifi systems top out at less than 300 Kbps. I don't care what they say on the box, they take two different frequencies and add the theoretical speeds together. And, you will never get the theoretical speeds! For example, a TP Link AC-1750 router claims 1,750 Mbps. In reality, it can do, theoretically, 450 Mbps on 2.4 GHz and 1,300 Mbps on 5 Ghz, so they call it 1,750 Mbps. There are no off the shelf consumer devices to bond the two channels. And, it has a 1 GBps ethernet link, so getting much over 800 Mbps to the router is impossible. Combine that with as soon as you are out of line of sight of the router and the 5GHz speeds will drop rapidly,

If you are having remote viewing issues, you likely have a bottle neck, but it is unlikely the 5 Mbps upload, if that is indeed working.

 

[TonyR]

If you are having remote viewing issues, you likely have a bottle neck, but it is unlikely the 5 Mbps upload, if that is indeed working.

Indeed.....folks around here that wanted Ring-like doorbells using the cloud found out it won't work with anything less than a 2 or 3.0 Meg UPLOAD speed.

 

[cam26]

@TonyR @TVille I'll be interested to see how my internet improves (or doesn't) with the new provider. The cost for Gb service is negligible as compared to other speeds, and I can downgrade easily if I don't get speeds that justify it. My family does a lot of streaming now that school classes are frequently via Zoom at home, so slow internet speeds after multiple devices are connected and streaming has been a major frustration for me.

• 5 wired, 3 Wifi cameras: 2 indoor and 1 AD110 doorbell
• Wired cams go to POE switch, POE switch to router/PC

-OpenVPN to connect from outside the LAN
- BI 5.5.4.5
D2D: on
Substream: on
15 FPS
Quick sync: on
Service: on
Live preview: 10 FPS
Scaling: Fast (I wonder if I can upgrade this, haven't re-evaluated since sub streams came out)
Encoder: see image- just been using default settings
Virus software exempt

 

[wittaj]

Wifi is problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to use it through a wifi router. Someone tested this once and after 4 cameras, the wifi was unusable... Consumer grade routers just are not designed for the 24/7 demands of surveillance video and with it hooked to BI, it is asking for 24/7 data demands.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch before it freezes. Now do the same with a wifi camera (or even a plugged in camera) and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

Plus, you should never have your cameras passing through your router...they should be isolated from the internet all-together. That is how folks here have 30 cameras going and doesn't slow down their internet. Try that with 30 cameras going through your router and it will be slower than dial-up internet (if you are old enough to remember that LOL) it it doesn't implode first.

Another member came here about a year ago with a similar issue and around 10 cams. After much hesitation, I convinced him to install another NIC into his BI computer (less than $20) and run all the cameras to that on a separate IP address than the rest of his internet and then connect the other NIC to his internet from the BI computer.

Wouldn't you know it, his BI system became stable. And he didn't mention in the original post that he was having issues with Zoom calls. And that all cleared up after he took his cameras off the router. Color him surprised.

 

[cam26]

Wifi is problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to use it through a wifi router. Someone tested this once and after 4 cameras, the wifi was unusable... Consumer grade routers just are not designed for the 24/7 demands of surveillance video and with it hooked to BI, it is asking for 24/7 data demands.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch before it freezes. Now do the same with a wifi camera (or even a plugged in camera) and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

Plus, you should never have your cameras passing through your router...they should be isolated from the internet all-together. That is how folks here have 30 cameras going and doesn't slow down their internet. Try that with 30 cameras going through your router and it will be slower than dial-up internet (if you are old enough to remember that LOL) it it doesn't implode first.

Another member came here about a year ago with a similar issue and around 10 cams. After much hesitation, I convinced him to install another NIC into his BI computer (less than $20) and run all the cameras to that on a separate IP address than the rest of his internet and then connect the other NIC to his internet from the BI computer.

Wouldn't you know it, his BI system became stable. And he didn't mention in the original post that he was having issues with Zoom calls. And that all cleared up after he took his cameras off the router. Color him surprised.

So, best practice would not be to run wired cams to switch, and switch to router/pc?
Instead, cams to switch, switch to NIC1, then NIC2 to router?

im not super literate when it comes to NIC’s and networking.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The PC can even connect to the PoE switch. There's no worry about PoE power messing with the PC. The objective is to get the camera traffic off of the router. ISP routers are notoriously low in backplane bandwidth capacity. Doing that might cue the lags and hesitancy of most of the other devices using streaming. I'd also get those WiFi cameras off the router either by a second WiFi network or switching them to wired.

 

[cam26]

The PC can even connect to the PoE switch. There's no worry about PoE power messing with the PC. The objective is to get the camera traffic off of the router. ISP routers are notoriously low in backplane bandwidth capacity. Doing that might cue the lags and hesitancy of most of the other devices using streaming. I'd also get those WiFi cameras off the router either by a second WiFi network or switching them to wired.

I believe this switch (the one I have) only has two connections for Ethernet. I’m unclear as to how I could wire it so that cams are off the router (cams already to to switch, then switch to router and pc).

 

[wittaj]

That is an unmanaged switch, so it does not assign IP addresses.

Are all your devices on the same IP address range?

You could go into each camera and change to static IP address and make it something that your router IP address isn't. So if your router is 192.168.1.XXX, then make your cameras something like 10.xx.xx.xxx or 172.xxx.xxx.xxx or 192.168.0.xxx, well you get the idea.

But if all your devices are the same IP address range, that can be the problem.

 

[sebastiantombs]

You can plug the PC into any unused PoE port or one of the uplink ports. Electrically, the same thing but the bandwidth is limited to 100Mb/ps on a PoE port. That is of no consequence either since there's no way you'll exceed 100Mb/ps with seven cameras, the number of open ports assuming you use one for the PC.

For that matter the connection to your other switches can also go into a PoE port to free an uplink port for the PC. Six of one, half dozen of another.

The objective is to get the camera traffic off of the router, or at least as much camera traffic as possible.

 

[cam26]

That is an unmanaged switch, so it does not assign IP addresses.

Are all your devices on the same IP address range?

You could go into each camera and change to static IP address and make it something that your router IP address isn't. So if your router is 192.168.1.XXX, then make your cameras something like 10.xx.xx.xxx or 172.xxx.xxx.xxx or 192.168.0.xxx, well you get the idea.

But if all your devices are the same IP address range, that can be the problem.

Yeah, they are. They’re set outside the range of the WAN and I use a VPN to access, but within the same LAN.

I worry about changing anything network security related. Setting the cams to an IP off the router address would then take them off the router and onto the PC only? Or it would still require a second NIC?

You can plug the PC into any unused PoE port or one of the uplink ports. Electrically, the same thing but the bandwidth is limited to 100Mb/ps on a PoE port. That is of no consequence either since there's no way you'll exceed 100Mb/ps with seven cameras, the number of open ports assuming you use one for the PC.

For that matter the connection to your other switches can also go into a PoE port to free an uplink port for the PC. Six of one, half dozen of another.

The objective is to get the camera traffic off of the router, or at least as much camera traffic as possible.

I see, that makes sense. Since I’d rather not change the IP of the cams unless necessary, is the best way to take traffic off the router to plug the switch into a second NIC on the PC, and the first NIC into the router?

 

[sebastiantombs]

That's the ideal way, one NIC for cameras one NIC for regular LAN access. That provides the best way to segregate the cameras from the internet barring no physical connection at all, assuming the cameras and second NIC are all on another IP range that is different from the main router.

In this drawing the cameras are all on 10.x.x.x , Video Switches and NIC1, and the regular LAN is on 192.168.x.x, Network Switches and NIC2

 

[wittaj]

WAN is your public IP address - there should only be one device on that - your modem.

LAN is on the inside of the house.

Are your LAN IP address ranges the same for the cameras and your other devices? Or are they two separate ranges?

 

[cam26]

WAN is your public IP address - there should only be one device on that - your modem.

LAN is on the inside of the house.

Are your LAN IP address ranges the same for the cameras and your other devices? Or are they two separate ranges?

Sorry, networking illiterate.

Cameras all have static IP’s from 192.168.1.3 through 192.168.1.14 (all but the doorbell because I can’t change it without losing Amcrest access). Nothing else is on that range and they are isolated from the internet

Rest of the network starts at 192.168.1.15 through .254

 

[cam26]

That's the ideal way, one NIC for cameras one NIC for regular LAN access. That provides the best way to segregate the cameras from the internet barring no physical connection at all, assuming the cameras and second NIC are all on another IP range that is different from the main router.

In this drawing the cameras are all on 10.x.x.x , Video Switches and NIC1, and the regular LAN is on 192.168.x.x, Network Switches and NIC2
View attachment 118634

Makes sense. How does the complicate access externally? Currently using OpenVPN on my router for access.

 

[wittaj]

Sorry, networking illiterate.

Cameras all have static IP’s from 192.168.1.3 through 192.168.1.14 (all but the doorbell because I can’t change it without losing Amcrest access). Nothing else is on that range and they are isolated from the internet

Rest of the network starts at 192.168.1.15 through .254

But that is all the same range. The first 3 sets of number are the IP address range. So EVERY device you have is on the 192.168.1.XXX IP address range. Get the cameras to another IP address range.

How are they isolated from the network if they are the same IP address of the router? Blocking them in the router is different than being isolated from the internet.

 

[cam26]

But that is all the same range. The first 3 sets of number are the IP address range. So EVERY device you have is on the 192.168.1.XXX IP address range. Get the cameras to another IP address range.

How are they isolated from the network if they are the same IP address of the router? Blocking them in the router is different than being isolated from the internet.

You nailed it. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I do have them blocked in the router.

Two questions

1) Is it as simple as reassigning each camera a static IP outside of the normal network range? any other issues related to VPN access?

2) Will that alone allow for improved Wi-Fi across the network and, hopefully, improved external access?

EDIT* I’m seeing THIS thread and assuming this is almost exactly what we are talking about. I’ll need to purchase and install a second NIC, change it’s range to different than other, and assign camera IP’s to that range.
Direct BI web server to that IP. Not sure if anything changes with OpenVPN.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Just assign the cameras a different IP range and use an address in that range for the NIC that handles the camera feeds.

It will not effect VPN into your network to access the BI machine in any way. It will make it necessary to manage the cameras themselves, using their web GUI, from the BI machine only unless you use an RDP product to control the BI machine remotely.

It may/should improve response for everything else on your network since all the camera traffic will not be going through the router. Cameras supply a never ending stream of data so you're unloading a major chunk by isolating them to a second NIC. As far as WiFi, get those two, regular, cameras off of WiFi for that same reason to unload that traffic off both the router and WiFi channel. You're kind of stuck with the doorbell camera thoughsince it probably only connects via WiFi.

 

[cam26]

Just assign the cameras a different IP range and use an address in that range for the NIC that handles the camera feeds.

It will not effect VPN into your network to access the BI machine in any way. It will make it necessary to manage the cameras themselves, using their web GUI, from the BI machine only unless you use an RDP product to control the BI machine remotely.

It may/should improve response for everything else on your network since all the camera traffic will not be going through the router. Cameras supply a never ending stream of data so you're unloading a major chunk by isolating them to a second NIC. As far as WiFi, get those two, regular, cameras off of WiFi for that same reason to unload that traffic off both the router and WiFi channel. You're kind of stuck with the doorbell camera thoughsince it probably only connects via WiFi.

Thanks so much. I ordered a TP link gig network card. Just to be clear- I’ll get that installed, plug my PoE switch into it, and set the cameras to that IP range. Then direct BI webserver to that new NIC.

I’ll then plug BI PC straight into router from the original network card.

Does that sound about right?