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weld6g

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I have thought about security cameras for a few years now, and a recent vehicle theft attempt has prompted me to do some research about some visual recordings to catch said ne'er-to-do-wells. The second question asked from the nice man in the blue uniform was "anybody close have cameras?". I have four quotes from professional installers all who want 650.00 per camera (or more), plus wire, plus labor. One guy spouted that he wanted to sell me 6MP Dahua cameras, has been in business for 30 yrs, and that he has done work for local federal facilities (crickets about night clarity). He didn't know what a DORI rating is (odd for a reseller), which I have learned about quickly in this here nifty forum. I don't have the bankroll for a professional system that isn't going to be as good as what I have taken the time to research. (5442's and 2431's)

I am full of stupid questions in my install, and hope to contribute back for some topics I really am an expert at. I appreciate the knowledge base in this forum and hope to learn quickly.
 

wittaj

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Good to come here first than after wondering why you cannot IDENTIFY someone at 65 feet out with a 2.8mm lens!

You have the typical professional installer that knows squat and is wanting to overcharge. Not know DORI? Recommends 6MP? $650 per camera (did they give make/model)? You truly would be better off buying your own gear and setting it up with recommendations of folks here. Heck even if you ran it at default settings would be better than what you would pay a boatload for.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything other than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything other than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4k camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... anything else will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

Next you need to worry about getting the right camera for the right location.

You would be shocked how close someone needs to be to a 2.8mm lens in order to ID them. And how much additional light is needed at night (when it matters most).

Take a look at this chart - to identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

1604638118196.png



My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his 4 2.8mm fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system that had fixed 2.8mm or 3.6mm cams - those cams sure looks nice and gives a great wide angle view, but you cannot identify anyone at 15 feet out. At night you cannot even ID someone from 10 feet. Meanwhile, the perp didn't come to my house but walked past on the sidewalk at 80 feet from my house and my 2MP varifocal zoomed in to a point at the sidewalk was the money shot for the police that got my neighbors all there stolen stuff back. Reolinks are even worse at night - he tried those first and sent back to get Arlos....and a year later he is regretting that choice too.

In fact my system was the only one that gave them useful information. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4k Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from @EMPIRETECANDY on this site based on my recommendation and seeing my results - fortunately those cams work with the Lorex NVR. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location.

My first few systems were the box units that were all 2.8mm lens and while the picture looked great in daytime, to identify someone you didn't know is impossible unless they are within 10 feet of the camera, and even then it is tough. You are getting the benefit coming to this site of hearing thoughts from people that have been there/done that.

We all hate to be that guy with a system and something happens and the event demonstrates how poor our system was and then we start the update process. My neighbor with his expensive arlos and monthly fees is that guy right now and is still fuming his system failed him. And my neighbor with his 4K Costco kit is as well LOL.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...
 

weld6g

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Holy cow, thanks for the welcome!

Wittaj, thanks for the advice. My main concern is my truck parked in front of my house, and of course, the front door. I am seriously looking at the Loryta IPC-5442TM-AS 2.8 (amazon) to cover the front of my house, quite possibly adding an extra cam (narrow field of view) in addition to the Amcrest doorbell recently installed. This is after reading reviews, and finding I probably will have color with the ambient lighting available. Should I go 2MP Starlight? The rest of the house can efficiently be covered by the Loryta IPC-T2431-AS 3.6 (amazon), due to budget constraints and the small size of the domicile. Cameras will be between 8 and 9 foot, depending on cable routing options.

Thanks Andy, will be shopping your channel on amazon, will let you know if I need anything.

Anybody here installed a system on a house with stucco and flat roof?
 

wittaj

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If you have the budget to go with the 5442 series, that is the current champ of the cams. That and the 4k Hikvision on a 1/1.2 sensor (but quite a bit more).

How far is the trunk parked in front of the house? As you see from the DORI numbers above, a 2.8mm or 3.6mm would need to be pretty close to get IDENTIFY features.

I would recommend spend a little more and go with the varifocal 5442-ZE so that you can optically zoom it in to where your truck is parked. We just are not there yet with digital zoom like in the movies and on TV. We can get away with some during the day, but not too much at night.

I seem to recall @Holbs has stucco?
 

EMPIRETECANDY

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Holy cow, thanks for the welcome!

Wittaj, thanks for the advice. My main concern is my truck parked in front of my house, and of course, the front door. I am seriously looking at the Loryta IPC-5442TM-AS 2.8 (amazon) to cover the front of my house, quite possibly adding an extra cam (narrow field of view) in addition to the Amcrest doorbell recently installed. This is after reading reviews, and finding I probably will have color with the ambient lighting available. Should I go 2MP Starlight? The rest of the house can efficiently be covered by the Loryta IPC-T2431-AS 3.6 (amazon), due to budget constraints and the small size of the domicile. Cameras will be between 8 and 9 foot, depending on cable routing options.

Thanks Andy, will be shopping your channel on amazon, will let you know if I need anything.

Anybody here installed a system on a house with stucco and flat roof?
2MP also good.

IPC-T3241T-ZAS support audio
IPC-T2231T-ZS No Audio
Anybody here installed a system on a house with stucco and flat roof? Can be installed anywhere If it's easy to drill :cool:
 

laka1

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I have thought about security cameras for a few years now, and a recent vehicle theft attempt has prompted me to do some research about some visual recordings to catch said ne'er-to-do-wells. The second question asked from the nice man in the blue uniform was "anybody close have cameras?". I have four quotes from professional installers all who want 650.00 per camera (or more), plus wire, plus labor. One guy spouted that he wanted to sell me 6MP Dahua cameras, has been in business for 30 yrs, and that he has done work for local federal facilities (crickets about night clarity). He didn't know what a DORI rating is (odd for a reseller), which I have learned about quickly in this here nifty forum. I don't have the bankroll for a professional system that isn't going to be as good as what I have taken the time to research. (5442's and 2431's)

I am full of stupid questions in my install, and hope to contribute back for some topics I really am an expert at. I appreciate the knowledge base in this forum and hope to learn quickly.
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Welcome to the forum, mate!
 

VorlonFrog

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Good advice all around. You cannot go wrong at approximately $150 per camera and running the Cat-6 cable yourself. A long drill bit to go through the stucco wall is good, plus a good watertight mount/base to hold the ethernet connector behind the camera. A little bit of silicone caulk is all that is needed, don't waste a lot of it and create a bigger problem. Also, spray on or squeeze bottle of dielectric grease should be used with the ethernet connector, to keep out any moisture.
 
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Holy cow, thanks for the welcome!

Wittaj, thanks for the advice. My main concern is my truck parked in front of my house, and of course, the front door. I am seriously looking at the Loryta IPC-5442TM-AS 2.8 (amazon) to cover the front of my house, quite possibly adding an extra cam (narrow field of view) in addition to the Amcrest doorbell recently installed. This is after reading reviews, and finding I probably will have color with the ambient lighting available. Should I go 2MP Starlight? The rest of the house can efficiently be covered by the Loryta IPC-T2431-AS 3.6 (amazon), due to budget constraints and the small size of the domicile. Cameras will be between 8 and 9 foot, depending on cable routing options.

Thanks Andy, will be shopping your channel on amazon, will let you know if I need anything.

Anybody here installed a system on a house with stucco and flat roof?
I gots stucco and have 3 cameras hanging from stucco. Left Side Driveway & Right Side Driveway are 6' high. Center Driveway sits up in the 9' area.
My stucco is the thinner version.. 1/4", if that? I drilled a hole through the stucco & wood substrate large enough to bring out a Cat6 cable and then terminated the RJ45 on the outside. Needed a cavity to store the RJ45 and couple inches of slack so attached a 4x4 electricians box with a blank plate and then simply used metal self tapping screws to attach camera base to the blank plate. Or you can purchase the much nicer looking white round Dahua base instead.
I should mention, if you put a camera at 6' high mark...there is a slight problem. When you goto point the camera parallel with the ground, it will not due to the camera oval metal cover. At best, maybe 80-85 degree horizontal instead of 90. To have the camera pointing 90 degrees, I had to shim the 4x4 box a little.

For any outside connections, I do double duty. I use dielectric grease and I also use 4" length of heat shrink tube of 1" to shrink around the actual connection and then 2" of 1/2" shrink tube at either end of the 1" tube because the 1" tube will not shrink down around the Cat6.

My driveway is 50' long. I origianlly bought 2.8mm Dahua 5442's thinking wider angle the better. Ooopsie me! Changed them out to varifocals because sometimes I park really close to garage door, sometimes 20' feet away if utility trailer attached or if house visitors. I could of saved a couple dollars by purchasing a 5442 6mm fixed focal, but I seem to move cameras around when it suits me and I now like to have all my cameras varifocals for that reason.

Many options for front door. Because I was bored and wanted toys, I bought 1 Dahua VTO villa intercom doorbell camera to catch faces (and 3 remote VTH's inside the house). It's only a 720p camera but it's purpose is to see who is at front door and it does the job. For general front door, I re-used an older Dahua 4231 up on the ceiling roof looking down on front patio to keep an eye out for packages or whatever else happens.

Doorbell x19 2021-05-05 09.29.20.213 AM.jpgPorch x7 2021-05-05 09.29.10.722 AM.jpgDriveway Left x9 2021-05-05 09.29.02.477 AM.jpgDriveway Center x6 2021-05-05 09.28.42.240 AM.jpgDriveway Right x16 2021-05-05 09.28.53.89 AM.jpg
 
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The Automation Guy

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Welcome. It sounds like you are off to a good start and you are willing to research and learn before jumping in. DIY is great and not that hard. Picking the right equipment is usually the hardest part and with the help of the forum, you won't have trouble with that.
 

weld6g

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My truck bumper is 20 inches away from the house and the areas of concern are 10-13 feet from where I would place the camera at 9ft high. I have physically measured the angles involved in camera placement with the vari focal, and I feel a fixed 2.8 113 degree 5442 camera may be better suited for more driveway coverage using DORI (identify-20ft) as reference. I am however displeased with the quite wide FOV of the Amcrest doorbell and am thinking a 3.6 2431 may be a good addition above the front door, haven't decided as of yet. Areas in the back of the house (small yard) are less of a security concern and will be fine with 2.8 2431's as well, until pennies can be saved for updated goodies.

The only problem with a stucco installation is I have no attic to run wires through, and all cabling (outdoor rated, of course) will have to be attached and exposed on the roof, entering the structure at a central penetration to where my NVR and computer are located. Google is dead to me, as far as this installation subject goes.
 

weld6g

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Looney2ns, I have been through the cliffnotes 3 times, and about to read it again. There is a wealth of information and I failed the sponge class, re, I cant soak it up all at once. I found a link in another post with good advice from a member here with more good things to know, and I cant find it again. If you have the link, it would be appreciated. Going to school my new alarm dude on his over priced cameras when he installs my new touchpad keyspad in a couple of days.
 
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My truck bumper is 20 inches away from the house and the areas of concern are 10-13 feet from where I would place the camera at 9ft high. I have physically measured the angles involved in camera placement with the vari focal, and I feel a fixed 2.8 113 degree 5442 camera may be better suited for more driveway coverage using DORI (identify-20ft) as reference. I am however displeased with the quite wide FOV of the Amcrest doorbell and am thinking a 3.6 2431 may be a good addition above the front door, haven't decided as of yet. Areas in the back of the house (small yard) are less of a security concern and will be fine with 2.8 2431's as well, until pennies can be saved for updated goodies.

The only problem with a stucco installation is I have no attic to run wires through, and all cabling (outdoor rated, of course) will have to be attached and exposed on the roof, entering the structure at a central penetration to where my NVR and computer are located. Google is dead to me, as far as this installation subject goes.
Take a picture of your outside area where you'll be running cable
 

weld6g

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No ladder available at the moment, but I have a flat roof with parapets. Cameras will be mounted at 9 ft, cabling will be exposed running over the parapet with a drip loop at each junction box.
 
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