IP Camera set-up without internet

[bphillips]

Hoping someone can answer a quick question for me. I think I know the answer but want to make sure.

Our family farm just built a new grain storage set-up about two miles from our main location. We want to set-up a security camera system with onsite video storage to prevent theft and catch anyone that does steal. Our one issue is that the location does not currently have an internet connection. We eventually plan to beam a wifi signal from the house using a point-to-point antenna but want to get the camera's up before then.

So, my question, can I still create a local area network at the site using this router? I plan to have all the camera's wired using this PoE switch and may eventually use a wireless camera. I plan to build a PC with 8TB of storage and Blue Iris software. I'm aware I won't be able to get alerts or see the footage unless I have a monitor plugged in to the local computer, and that's fine for now. I just want to make sure the cameras will work and record to the on-site PC storage without any problems. Am I correct in assuming this will work?

Thanks,
Brad

 

[nayr]

it will work perfectly fine, you wont need a router that fancy tho.. and if you go with all manually configured static IP addresses you wont even need it.. about the only thing the router will do without an uplink is provide dhcp services.. id just get a nice PoE switch and wire everything up with static IP's, later you can do a point to point wireless bridge and link these cameras in with an upstream router.

 

[nayr]

you may consider running a Network Time Server in standalone.. I would suggest a cheap USB GPS unit (under $20, plus maby 50ft monoprice usb cable) that can see a sky going into your BlueIris server, with an NTP Server running configured for the cameras to sync with.. this way you know your timestamps are accurate and your cameras sync up playback just fine.. without an internet connection to sync time the cameras will drift apart and so will the server..

http://www.visualgps.net/nmeatime/

 

[bphillips]

Thanks for the quick reply! I was hoping this would work, glad to hear from an expert that it will.

I like the idea of no router and the static IPs. I assume it's easy to set up a static IP on the PC (Windows 7) and the cameras. Would that just be done in the network switch settings?

 

[nayr]

yeah you just give them a static ip on the same subnet and no router is needed.

in each devices network configuration you set them up like:
IP Address: 192.168.0.1, 192.168.0.2, etc all the way to 192.168.0.254 (dont duplicate any, unique for each device)
Netmask 255.255.255.0
Gateway: BLANK
DNS: BLANK

just change it from Automatic/DHCP Configuration to Manual/Static configuration and go at it, helps to write down the IP's and stick em to the switch incase you forget your settings.

add a lil planing so it makes sence to you, like put the BlueIris server at 192.168.0.1 and the IP Cameras at like 192.168.0.11 and up, then you can name your cameras 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and you know the IP is 192.168.0.1X where X = Camera Number... if yoru going to have more than 9 cameras might start at .1 and put BlueIris on .100 or something easy to recall

 

[bphillips]

yeah you just give them a static ip on the same subnet and no router is needed.

in each devices network configuration you set them up like:
IP Address: 192.168.0.1, 192.168.0.2, etc all the way to 192.168.0.254 (dont duplicate any, unique for each device)
Netmask 255.255.255.0
Gateway: BLANK
DNS: BLANK

just change it from Automatic/DHCP Configuration to Manual/Static configuration and go at it, helps to write down the IP's and stick em to the switch incase you forget your settings.

add a lil planing so it makes sence to you, like put the BlueIris server at 192.168.0.1 and the IP Cameras at like 192.168.0.11 and up, then you can name your cameras 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and you know the IP is 192.168.0.1X where X = Camera Number... if yoru going to have more than 9 cameras might start at .1 and put BlueIris on .100 or something easy to recall

Thanks for the tips! Sounds easy enough!

The two mile distance can be complicated by three very important things:

1. LOS ("Line Of Site"). The antennas must have unobstructed access to each other without any higher terrain or structures in between for example. That you aren't willing to spend money on tower(s) to resolve.

2. Even if the above is true. If others are using the same frequency with similar antennas ("Which you may not be able to tell visually") then even if (1) above is ok. You can have some major issues. If those signals are crossing your path.

3. Some States or counties may require a license to do this over x distance. This usually is done so that you could easily find out if there are any signals in your path currently as well as protect your signal if others in the future were to attempt same. The State or country will have your back stopping them, if they refuse to stop. Based on you having that license.

It maybe best to Check with your State and County. If you get the thumbs up. Then as if you can test first using antennas as most people do in cases like this to verify all the above.

There a many good examples about how people have gone about doing the same thing and hints on what they found to be the best equipment to use as well as antennas.

Here is a Google search that you will find very helpful:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=two+mile+wireless


Don

Thanks for the tips, Don. LOS won't a problem as we have a 75 foot high grain leg at each location to mount the antennas. I'll look into the need for a permit, but I'd bet the area we are in is so sparsely populated that it's unlikely a permit would be needed or anyone else would be beaming signals.

Here's the new grain leg one antenna is going on. All the equipment will be in the white shed.

 

[nayr]

ah badass, yeah you have a perfect environment for a Point to Point wireless backhaul, you can get those buildings linked up easy with a pair of these for under $200 total.

http://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanobeamm/

 

[bphillips]

ah badass, yeah you have a perfect environment for a Point to Point wireless backhaul, you can get those buildings linked up easy with a pair of these for under $200 total.

http://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanobeamm/

Thanks for the links, Nayr. We plan on putting the point-to-point up in the spring after the crops are in.

 

[LittleBrother]

OP if this is indeed your only requirement:

We want to set-up a security camera system with onsite video storage to prevent theft and catch anyone that does steal.

--at least for now--all you need is an IP camera with onboard SD storage, and plug it into a power source. Once you get it setup initially, at your house, or wherever, it is capable of recording a couple days worth of stuff and need not have any network connectivity at all. It will automatically roll over old footage so you can leave it for long periods of time. If something does happen you can then grab the camera's card. Obviously this grants you no remote access and you'd need to be confident the camera won't be stolen.

 

[bphillips]

OP if this is indeed your only requirement:


--at least for now--all you need is an IP camera with onboard SD storage, and plug it into a power source. Once you get it setup initially, at your house, or wherever, it is capable of recording a couple days worth of stuff and need not have any network connectivity at all. It will automatically roll over old footage so you can leave it for long periods of time. If something does happen you can then grab the camera's card. Obviously this grants you no remote access and you'd need to be confident the camera won't be stolen.[/COLOR]

We looked into doing that, but we couldn't get enough storage on an SD card. We need to store footage for a week minimum, preferably two weeks. Just in case we are out of town for awhile or just don't notice the grain is gone. We also want to set this up so it is future-proof for when we get a connection up there.

One more question, not really related to cameras, but someone may have an idea. We would like a way to be notified when the grain dryer shuts off. The idea right now, once we get internet to the bins, is to have a camera pointed at the dryer controls inside the control building that we can check on. We also thought to have an audio alerted SMS trigger when the audio alert goes off when it's done, that way we don't need to login to see the camera, it's more passive. Problem with that is it would send an alert anytime any audio at all is detected. That would get annoying. Does anyone know of something that could sense something like that shutting off? Maybe something that senses a reduction in voltage or if we rigged it up to somehow receive an electrical pulse when it shuts off?

I'm also rethinking using a router so I can have wireless as we may put one camera on a bin that would require 200' or so of Cat6 if it wasn't wireless.

Also, we have another set of bins with a grain leg (tower) about 800 yards away. If I put a point to point antenna between these two would it adequately transmit video from a couple cameras to the PC-DVR we have set-up at the original location? Thinking a couple 3MP cams with H.264 encoding.

Thanks

 

[nayr]

I would suggest really trying to avoid putting cameras on wireless, especially if you later want to wirelessly link this to another site... its worth the effort to run the cable.. I can kick wireless devices off networks with no troble, despite any security you have... plus since they are going to stream 24/7 video to your NVR its going to be extremely susceptible to dropouts and its going to basically trash the idea of getting a good wifi network running with those things pushing 10Mbit continuously without end.. Wireless bandwidth is shared, wired bandwidth is not.

you have to run power to it somehow so your not getting away from the fact wires need to be ran... for your other set of bins id consider local NVR so the WiFi would not be a requirement for reliable operation.. you might just look at getting all the same brand cameras and a matching NVR vs a PC-NVR..

If you have the equipment the ideal solution would be to connect your other buildings together with a buried fiberoptic cable...

as for telling if your equipment is running or not, thats a piece of cake.. once again I'll point you to Ubiquiti.. http://www.ubnt.com/mfi/mport/ with there mFi Current Sensor should give you reliable monitoring.

 

[bphillips]

I would suggest really trying to avoid putting cameras on wireless, especially if you later want to wirelessly link this to another site... its worth the effort to run the cable.. I can kick wireless devices off networks with no troble, despite any security you have... plus since they are going to stream 24/7 video to your NVR its going to be extremely susceptible to dropouts and its going to basically trash the idea of getting a good wifi network running with those things pushing 10Mbit continuously without end.. Wireless bandwidth is shared, wired bandwidth is not.

you have to run power to it somehow so your not getting away from the fact wires need to be ran... for your other set of bins id consider local NVR so the WiFi would not be a requirement for reliable operation.. you might just look at getting all the same brand cameras and a matching NVR vs a PC-NVR..

If you have the equipment the ideal solution would be to connect your other buildings together with a buried fiberoptic cable...

as for telling if your equipment is running or not, thats a piece of cake.. once again I'll point you to Ubiquiti.. http://www.ubnt.com/mfi/mport/ with there mFi Current Sensor should give you reliable monitoring.

Thanks for the tips. Not sure if we will monitor the other bins or not. There is a house we rent right next to it that should deter most theft, but good to know there are options.

Those Ubiquiti sensors look like what I'm looking for. I assume I need some kind of Ubiquiti software to get the system to send a SMS or email when it notices a voltage drop? Would the voltage montior (mFI-CS) plug directly into my router/switch? Or would I need some other piece from Ubiquiti?

 

[nayr]

Download and play with the mFi controller software before buying, the Current Sensor has to go with the mPort box, and that plugs into your network.
http://dl.ubnt.com/guides/mfi/mFi-CS_QSG.pdf

http://www.ubnt.com/download/

for SMS monitoring you just need to verify it can send out email alerts and then you use your SMS to email bridge address, ie 5555555555@txt.att.net

I use a couple mFi outlets but without there controller, I SSH into them and turn them on/off with my own programs.. dont have direct experience with the current sensor and that sensor box

 

[Jim W]

Not sure what a grain store building looks like but my recent searches in to security systems brought up some pretty good alarm systems with built in SIM cards so long as you have service in the area

 

[nayr]

i suspect given the remote locations of large grain storage facilities he'd be much better off with something that notifies him or his employees and not a standard security monitoring system, as the sheriff is probably along ways away.

Cradlepoint has some really nice routers that can uplink to a cellular modem and they support fallover to the cellular modem too.. so if the WiFi uplink to your internet connectivity goes down it can auto switch over to a GSM modem and retain connectivity... but thats an additional cost.

 

[Jim W]

I was looking at a Texecom alarm system which has an add on GSM box from which you can arm and disarm the system and it sends texts for any events. The panel has outputs which could trigger a camera for recording to SD. Hardwired switces on doors and door handles don't false alarm very often and a decent external PIR could pick up anyone snooping around outside, depending on which sensor has been triggered the owner could decide whether to drive over and check it out

 

[nayr]

I entirely agree he should use physical motion and entry sensors, 100% more reliable and less prone to false alarms than processing video for events.. I think in this case since its so remote if he is going to pay extra for a GSM service he should get internet connectivity with it too so he dont have to do everything over SMS/Voice prompts.. If he has an existing voice line there he could use that for a basic dialup and send emails.. you also find it hard to get an unlimited texting service for those so if you make it too verbose its costs alot more then just sending an email..

It would be better than nothing thats forsure.. but if he sets up a reliable wireless bridge all that is just a redundancy.

One thing I would consider important on a grain storage depot would be placing a discrete camera in the loading bay, perhaps two from both directions if its a pull through and your state dont have front plates.. setup so if anyone pulls up to your boom and fills there truck with grain you have a good chance of getting a license plate.. with perhaps a buried sensor that detects vehicle moving over it would be a really keen idea... this might require a camera with a good zoom and IR to pull off.

If you use good reliable physical security sensors paired up with your NVR to trigger recordings you could cut down your storage requirements and false alarms tremendously..

 

[bphillips]

We are planning on pointing two cameras at the load out shoot, one on the white building under the eave and another on the bin pointing in the opposite direction. I'm using 3MP cams, so I should be able to grab a license plate and the person stealing grain would HAVE to drive under the load out and in front of the cameras. The 3rd camera will be inside the white shed pointing at the door and be tripped to record on motion. A person would also HAVE to enter the building to turn on the power for the grain leg. That should cut down on motion alerts from cars driving by and such.

I'll be sure to report back with what I did when it's all done.

Nayr, I have an off topic question if you don't mind. You seem really good with automation, so you may be able to help. Once we get Internet to the bins I'm going to use the mFI system to send a SMS message when the dryer shuts off. But I'd like to take it a step further. Could I rig up a way for the system to trigger the AC winch to open the roof dryer floor and drop the grain? Then after a timed delay (for the grain to drop) reverse the winch and close the floor?

 

[nayr]

First thing you'd need to look at is the HP of your Winch and how it is wired, I presume thats a pretty heavy load so you'll need a pretty beefy relay.. actually a pair of them, one to turn motor on/off and another to reverse directions.. I wired something like this up for my Swamp Cooler to make my z-wave thermostat control it like a 2-stage air-conditioner, it had 2 speeds I had to switch through.. used three 24VAC Relays that could handle the 1HP motor and a bit of clever wiring... (FAN = Blower on Low, AC Stage 1 = Turn Water Pump on, AC Stage 2 = Blower on High)

Now for the timing and control you could probably write a very simple Arduino sketch to turn it on, wait XX seconds, then reverse.. does your winch shutoff or activate a clutch when it is fully open/closed or will you risk burning up the motor? You may need to add some switches to cut the relays when it maxes out.. One of the mPorts has a serial port on it, this might be able to plug right into the Arduino and trigger your sketch when the other sensors go off..

If you were to go this route you could forgo the mFi and just have the Arduino monitor the current, trigger the motors, and send an email via ethernet... If you have some programming experience there's alot more powerful stuff than an Arduino, but if your new to programming an ethernet Arduino is probably your best bet, its very easy to learn and alot of sample code/sketches are out there.

 

[fmflex]

Nayr, I have an off topic question if you don't mind. You seem really good with automation, so you may be able to help. Once we get Internet to the bins I'm going to use the mFI system to send a SMS message when the dryer shuts off. But I'd like to take it a step further. Could I rig up a way for the system to trigger the AC winch to open the roof dryer floor and drop the grain? Then after a timed delay (for the grain to drop) reverse the winch and close the floor?

This is easily achievable with a couple of control relays and a time delay relay. You might need to advise how you want to start the control circuit.

With regards to what Nayr has said, if the winch motor was of a decent size, chances it would be fired with a contactor for forward and reverse that is either switched with a control relay or manual toggle switch.