Is there a such thing as a camera system that is not complete trash? Suggestions?

[reflection]

The 5241-Z12E is a fan favorite here. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night with a 1/2,000 shutter and 8 FPS of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my Z12E that is on the 2nd story soffit, Camera is 35 feet above street at this location.

View attachment 137436

How? Please share your settings for the 5241-Z12E. I have the same camera but don't get nearly the same clarity. Do you have additional IR lighting at night?

 

[wittaj]

My picture is actually one of the worse of those capturing plates with it. I do not have additional IR light.

We have found that the chipsets have changed during the life of the Z12E and changes the settings quite drastically - do you have a build date of your camera?

 

[reflection]

I'm not sure of the build date. It was purchased in Sept 2020. Here is firmware info:

Device Type IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E
System Version V2.800.0000000.10.R, Build Date: 2019-11-18
WEB Version V3.2.1.817187
ONVIF Version 18.12(V2.4.5.800245)
S/N 5L06Axxxxxxxxxxxx
Algorithm Version 1.0.0
Security Baseline Version V2.0

 

[wittaj]

I'm not sure of the build date. It was purchased in Sept 2020. Here is firmware info:

Device Type IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E
System Version V2.800.0000000.10.R, Build Date: 2019-11-18
WEB Version V3.2.1.817187
ONVIF Version 18.12(V2.4.5.800245)
S/N 5L06Axxxxxxxxxxxx
Algorithm Version 1.0.0
Security Baseline Version V2.0

In that case, these are the settings for my newer Z12E purchased around that time:





And of course @samplenhold where many of us have put in our settings:

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[reflection]

Wow. Thanks for the quick response. I don't have the same settings. I think my firmware may be older. What version of firmware do you recommend?

 

[wittaj]

That is the same firmware I am running.

 

[Flintstone61]

For ease of playback, (I need it every morning becuase of location and crime), I find Blue Iris the fastest overnight review in the West. Coming from Eyemax software, and Nightowl ( Costco) DVR and Amcrest DVR's and NVR's. None of them can take one camera and let you scroll thru motion events as fast as BI.
It shortens my morning Camera routine for Asshats, Shitbirds, and Doorchecking Fuckwads.
I have other work to do. This is not a homeowner setup. it's a 74 unit Condo with 26 cams.
I have wasted hours, looking for motion events in previous systems.
I'll never go back.....
If Blue Iris ever goes away, I may have to go rope up in the Garage with a 3 legged chair.

 

[reflection]

That is the same firmware I am running.

Not sure why mine is different. Yours is called "illuminator" and mine is "IR Light".

Anyway, I tried your settings and it's an improvement. I can clearly see the plate. Except when I turn up the gain, I get a gray instead of black background.

 

[Timokreon]

I personally would turn the gain down. Also looks like you need to play with your focus, under zoom and focus.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah looks like you can drop the gain.

Have someone park a car in the field of view and manually focus it and you will get a better image.

 

[reflection]

Thanks. I think I'm going down the right path. Sorry OP for going slightly off topic. Now I just need someone to park a car in the middle of the road for 5min .

 

[papadoc]

Blue Iris is the bomb! A $300 used PC running Win10 dedicated to be a Blue Iris server plus the right POE cams. Get some decent Dahua 4MP cams that have built-in AI plus run free AI server running on the forementioned PC. OpenVPN and Pushover notifications then you'll be all set for access to your cams from any computer or mobile device anywhere in the country.

I'm new to the site and almost ended up buying Lorex at Costco, but figured I'd do some digging around first since I've heard about Hikvision in the past. Anyway, now I'm here and definitely don't want to go consumer grade route. I currently have 1 Nest cam (1st gen) and its ok, just overlooking my driveway, mounted at 8 feet high. I just wanted to clarify a few things if I may:

Do I still need an NVR if I dedicate a PC with Blue Iris for the cameras?
What is the OpenVPN used for in this case, notifications?
The cameras are hardwired to the PC through cat cable?
How complicated would it be to set up the system? I'm computer savvy and handy. Only would need about 4-6 cameras.

I know that some cameras come with LED lights, however I don't want the lights be on all the time.. would having a motion sensor flood light be useful near a camera where I want it to record at night without the camera having LED's on constantly? Or is there a way to have camera LED's turn on only during motion?

My primary location for cameras would be to cover the front of the house (see pic below). The cameras by the garage would get some light from the street light that's right in front of the house as you can see in the Nest cam screenshot. Its the sides and front door of the house that would be somewhat darker. Bullet cameras would probably be better in my situation since I don't have anything to mount the turret ones to at the top.

Thanks for any help in advance.

 

[wittaj]

I'm new to the site and almost ended up buying Lorex at Costco, but figured I'd do some digging around first since I've heard about Hikvision in the past. Anyway, now I'm here and definitely don't want to go consumer grade route. I currently have 1 Nest cam (1st gen) and its ok, just overlooking my driveway, mounted at 8 feet high. I just wanted to clarify a few things if I may:

Do I still need an NVR if I dedicate a PC with Blue Iris for the cameras?
What is the OpenVPN used for in this case, notifications?
The cameras are hardwired to the PC through cat cable?
How complicated would it be to set up the system? I'm computer savvy and handy. Only would need about 4-6 cameras.

I know that some cameras come with LED lights, however I don't want the lights be on all the time.. would having a motion sensor flood light be useful near a camera where I want it to record at night without the camera having LED's on constantly? Or is there a way to have camera LED's turn on only during motion?

My primary location for cameras would be to cover the front of the house (see pic below). The cameras by the garage would get some light from the street light that's right in front of the house as you can see in the Nest cam screenshot. Its the sides and front door of the house that would be somewhat darker. Bullet cameras would probably be better in my situation since I don't have anything to mount the turret ones to at the top.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Welcome! Answers in Bold

Do I still need an NVR if I dedicate a PC with Blue Iris for the cameras? No you do not.
What is the OpenVPN used for in this case, notifications? It is used to access your camera feeds when away from home. You should never allow any camera to touch the internet. This is a free VPN you host (usually on your router) and not a paid VPN as that hides your IP for illegal stream and porn LOL.
The cameras are hardwired to the PC through cat cable? You run all the cameras to a POE Switch and then from that to the PC. Most here add another ethernet port to the PC - one for internet on one IP address subnet and the cameras on the other ethernet port on a different IP address subnet. This is called a dual NIC system. Other option is a VLAN switch.
How complicated would it be to set up the system? I'm computer savvy and handy. Only would need about 4-6 cameras. If you are tech savvy, it is easy. Not as easy as scan a QR code, but easy.

I know that some cameras come with LED lights, however I don't want the lights be on all the time.. would having a motion sensor flood light be useful near a camera where I want it to record at night without the camera having LED's on constantly? Or is there a way to have camera LED's turn on only during motion? Motion lights and cameras are not a good mix - either leave them on all night or not at all. If you do not have enough ambient light or refuse to use the built-in white LED, then you need a camera with built-in infrared.

You have a cheap Nest camera that slows the shutter speed way down and ups the gain so that your static image at night looks nice and bright. But then motion is going to be a blur. With real cameras, you set the shutter speed to be able to eliminate the blur. The faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. It appears you have street lights, so for the garage cameras you may get by with a full color type camera. If you leave your outside lights on all night, you could probably get away with a full color camera there as well. Side gate may need a camera that can see infrared. Full color cameras do not see infrared. You will probably want to add cameras to the other side of the house as well.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated light comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:



Take a look at this thread that identifies the most commonly suggested cameras based on distance to IDENTIFY. That is where most box kits fail is that they put in wide-angle 2.8mm cameras that are realistically only good to IDENTIFY about 10 feet out. The cameras suggested in this thread represent the best value in terms of performance (night and day), proper MP/sensor ratio, and cost.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[papadoc]

Welcome! Answers in Bold

Do I still need an NVR if I dedicate a PC with Blue Iris for the cameras? No you do not.
What is the OpenVPN used for in this case, notifications? It is used to access your camera feeds when away from home. You should never allow any camera to touch the internet. This is a free VPN you host (usually on your router) and not a paid VPN as that hides your IP for illegal stream and porn LOL.
The cameras are hardwired to the PC through cat cable? You run all the cameras to a POE Switch and then from that to the PC. Most here add another ethernet port to the PC - one for internet on one IP address subnet and the cameras on the other ethernet port on a different IP address subnet. This is called a dual NIC system. Other option is a VLAN switch.
How complicated would it be to set up the system? I'm computer savvy and handy. Only would need about 4-6 cameras. If you are tech savvy, it is easy. Not as easy as scan a QR code, but easy.

I know that some cameras come with LED lights, however I don't want the lights be on all the time.. would having a motion sensor flood light be useful near a camera where I want it to record at night without the camera having LED's on constantly? Or is there a way to have camera LED's turn on only during motion? Motion lights and cameras are not a good mix - either leave them on all night or not at all. If you do not have enough ambient light or refuse to use the built-in white LED, then you need a camera with built-in infrared.

You have a cheap Nest camera that slows the shutter speed way down and ups the gain so that your static image at night looks nice and bright. But then motion is going to be a blur. With real cameras, you set the shutter speed to be able to eliminate the blur. The faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. It appears you have street lights, so for the garage cameras you may get by with a full color type camera. If you leave your outside lights on all night, you could probably get away with a full color camera there as well. Side gate may need a camera that can see infrared. Full color cameras do not see infrared. You will probably want to add cameras to the other side of the house as well.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated light comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:

Take a look at this thread that identifies the most commonly suggested cameras based on distance to IDENTIFY. That is where most box kits fail is that they put in wide-angle 2.8mm cameras that are realistically only good to IDENTIFY about 10 feet out. The cameras suggested in this thread represent the best value in terms of performance (night and day), proper MP/sensor ratio, and cost.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

Thank you so much for the reply and info.

So regarding OpenVPN, do I have to have it on my router or can it be on the security cam PC? I use a regular VPN service on my current PC and don't want that interfering with the OpenVPN that would be on the router. Or would I get a separate router specifically for the security system PC?

POE switch makes sense, that way I don't have to run all the wires to my PC directly.

The built in infrared cameras are black and white then? or are they color during the day and then BW at night? I guess I would be ok with BW ones on the sides of the house if I really had to. I have neighbors on all sides and don't want to run crazy bright lights at night from the camera LEDs, that's the only reason I wouldn't want them on all the time.

On another note, I understand that I can't purchase Dahua or Hikvision directly from the manufacturer. If I buy them on Ali or Amazon or wherever do they carry any warranty or pretty much as is? Also, how come Hikvision doesn't get mentioned much on the forums compared to Dahua, are they not as good? I remember reading somewhere a long time ago they had security issues.

Is there a thread or a guide somewhere on how to set up a dedicated PC with cameras and set up Blue Iris on it, that I can read through?

Thanks again

 

[wittaj]

Thank you so much for the reply and info.

So regarding OpenVPN, do I have to have it on my router or can it be on the security cam PC? I use a regular VPN service on my current PC and don't want that interfering with the OpenVPN that would be on the router. Or would I get a separate router specifically for the security system PC?

POE switch makes sense, that way I don't have to run all the wires to my PC directly.

The built in infrared cameras are black and white then? or are they color during the day and then BW at night? I guess I would be ok with BW ones on the sides of the house if I really had to. I have neighbors on all sides and don't want to run crazy bright lights at night from the camera LEDs, that's the only reason I wouldn't want them on all the time.

On another note, I understand that I can't purchase Dahua or Hikvision directly from the manufacturer. If I buy them on Ali or Amazon or wherever do they carry any warranty or pretty much as is? Also, how come Hikvision doesn't get mentioned much on the forums compared to Dahua, are they not as good? I remember reading somewhere a long time ago they had security issues.

Is there a thread or a guide somewhere on how to set up a dedicated PC with cameras and set up Blue Iris on it, that I can read through?

Thanks again

For OpenVPN, if it is on the router it wouldn't interfere with your other VPN service. The only time OpenVPN is enabled would be when you are away from your home and you are VPNing back into your home network. But yes, if your router does not have OpenVPN, you can install it on a computer.

The built in infrared cameras will be black and white when using infrared. They are color during the day or you can force them in to color at night if you have enough light.

That is correct with Dahua and Hikvision - we are not their target market - they will tell you to contact an authorized USA installer. So when you buy them from a 3rd party, you need to purchase from a reputable seller otherwise you run the risk of poor warranty or service as well as it being a Chinese region camera hacked into English that will brick or turn into Chinese if you update it. That is why finding a reputable seller is important. Forum member @EMPIRETECANDY is one such seller. He sells international brand Dahua and Hikvision OEM cameras that can be updated and come with a two year warranty. He has an Amazon store as well.

The security issues you talk about are the same with EVERY camera, it is just the government has targeted Dahua and Hikvision. But the cameras are still available for purchase to homeowners. We isolate the cameras from the internet so it is a moot point.

The wiki is full of articles on how to to get the basics set up for the computer, optimizing BI, OpenVPN, etc. and then use the search function to find threads on particular questions or issues you have and if you strike out, then create a new thread with your questions!

 

[papadoc]

For OpenVPN, if it is on the router it wouldn't interfere with your other VPN service. The only time OpenVPN is enabled would be when you are away from your home and you are VPNing back into your home network. But yes, if your router does not have OpenVPN, you can install it on a computer.

The built in infrared cameras will be black and white when using infrared. They are color during the day or you can force them in to color at night if you have enough light.

That is correct with Dahua and Hikvision - we are not their target market - they will tell you to contact an authorized USA installer. So when you buy them from a 3rd party, you need to purchase from a reputable seller otherwise you run the risk of poor warranty or service as well as it being a Chinese region camera hacked into English that will brick or turn into Chinese if you update it. That is why finding a reputable seller is important. Forum member @EMPIRETECANDY is one such seller. He sells international brand Dahua and Hikvision OEM cameras that can be updated and come with a two year warranty. He has an Amazon store as well.

The security issues you talk about are the same with EVERY camera, it is just the government has targeted Dahua and Hikvision. But the cameras are still available for purchase to homeowners. We isolate the cameras from the internet so it is a moot point.

The wiki is full of articles on how to to get the basics set up for the computer, optimizing BI, OpenVPN, etc. and then use the search function to find threads on particular questions or issues you have and if you strike out, then create a new thread with your questions!

ok that's great! thank you so much for your help and all the info. i'll start on that wiki page.

 

[mydanielcreg_3]

Get some decent Dahua 4MP cams that have built-in AI plus run free AI server running on the forementioned PC. OpenVPN and Pushover notifications then you'll be all set for access to your cams from any computer or mobile device anywhere in the country.

Showbox jiofi.local.html tplinklogin​

 

[Vandoe]

FWIW I have some hikvision colorvu cameras that have the built in led lights. I have found that leaving the leds on is best with low light situations Vs using IR and they are not too bright that it disturbs any of the neighbors. It’s equivalent to your phones LED light. Or just kinda looks like a Christmas light lol

 

[denizkaan]

Get some decent Dahua 4MP cams that have built-in AI plus run free AI server running on the forementioned PC. OpenVPN and Pushover notifications then you'll be all set for access to your cams from any computer or mobile device anywhere in the country.

Showbox jiofi.local.html tplinklogin​

 

[Robertomcat]

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Disclaimer - These sizes are what the manufacturers advertise and may, or may not, be the true size of the sensor in the camera.
720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Hello, good morning.

And comparing these two boards, which of the two would have better illumination at night?