You might find you get sucked in. You'll get excited thinking about all the places you can run cable, and how to trigger ever-more-elaborate Rube Goldberg devices when an intruder crosses the line. Don't laugh--it happens.
Is this the best set out for my current needs?
- Thread starter johnlux
- Start date
Hey guys, the more I read the more I think I will get into it Now it is just a matter of buying the right cameras, nvr, cabling and bit and pieces and I will probably even run the cables by myself Hopefully I will be to find good guides around to set everything up
That is awesome to hear.
If you are willing to get your hands a little dirty and do some reading here and look at the posts we have linked, etc., you will find that you can do this for a lot cheaper and get better results.
If you are willing to get your hands a little dirty and do some reading here and look at the posts we have linked, etc., you will find that you can do this for a lot cheaper and get better results.
Well, just order one varifocal camera (perhaps a T5442T-ZE), a POE injector and a long patch cable, mount the cam on a long log (2x4). Having an old notebook/laptop may be handy. Familiarize yourself with the camera setup. Then scout your place for good positions, viewing angles etc. Then you determine which cameras you want to buy. And so on...
Edit: And whily you are at it, also order a IR and an LED beamer to investigate your night options. In the full sceme of things, one LED beamer and one IR beamer are going to be peanuts. But they are kind of interesting to include in the survey.
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Ok guys, I had a bit of read-around and I think I have shortlisted the below as suggested by a few users:
1: This will act as a doorbell too in a way that I can see who is around and set a standard message for the delivery guy/intruder. It also needs to have a deterrent light. Camera 2 will pick up the object first hence this is more of a second-level check.
2: around 20 mt coverage. Pick up plates and potential intruders. Note 2 will have a bit of light at night time coming from the road public lighting.
3 and 7: same as above, the coverage is around 30mt. The purpose is to identify people entering the property from the neighbours fence or using the lateral windows. Shhould I put them in the middle and have a 180 degrees camera?
6: general monitoring of the front yard
5 and 4: I would like to have another 2MP IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 3.6mm however do you think it is better I abandon the deterrent option and go same as 6? The IPC-T5442TM-AS looks a newer module
A couple of comments/questions:
1) I have few flood lights around the property. I think I will assess this later on, too hard now to plan cameras accounting for these lights.
2) Do all these cameras have SDs and the most advanced AI e.g. perimter, human/animal/car detection? Does the firmware gets updated or you need to plan to replace them after a while?
3) Is there an issue if instead of running the ethernet cable directly into the roof and attaching the camera to the ceiling, I run the first half meter externally? There are few challenging locations like the porch where I only have steel sheeting. I guess the issue is mainly safety e.g. the intruder cutting the cable.
1: This will act as a doorbell too in a way that I can see who is around and set a standard message for the delivery guy/intruder. It also needs to have a deterrent light. Camera 2 will pick up the object first hence this is more of a second-level check.
2: around 20 mt coverage. Pick up plates and potential intruders. Note 2 will have a bit of light at night time coming from the road public lighting.
3 and 7: same as above, the coverage is around 30mt. The purpose is to identify people entering the property from the neighbours fence or using the lateral windows. Shhould I put them in the middle and have a 180 degrees camera?
6: general monitoring of the front yard
5 and 4: I would like to have another 2MP IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 3.6mm however do you think it is better I abandon the deterrent option and go same as 6? The IPC-T5442TM-AS looks a newer module
A couple of comments/questions:
1) I have few flood lights around the property. I think I will assess this later on, too hard now to plan cameras accounting for these lights.
2) Do all these cameras have SDs and the most advanced AI e.g. perimter, human/animal/car detection? Does the firmware gets updated or you need to plan to replace them after a while?
3) Is there an issue if instead of running the ethernet cable directly into the roof and attaching the camera to the ceiling, I run the first half meter externally? There are few challenging locations like the porch where I only have steel sheeting. I guess the issue is mainly safety e.g. the intruder cutting the cable.
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Looks like good choices.
Yes the cams have AI and SD cards. A general rule of thumb is if the camera is working for you, NEVER UPDATE THE FIRMWARE. Too many instances, like several posts per week, where someone updated their firmware and bricked the camera or they lost features they needed. Most here never update firmware. My 5442s are running 2019 firmware because the cameras flat out work and why fix what ain't broke!
If you run any cable external, consider putting it in conduit and/or have the cable be external rated.
Yes the cams have AI and SD cards. A general rule of thumb is if the camera is working for you, NEVER UPDATE THE FIRMWARE. Too many instances, like several posts per week, where someone updated their firmware and bricked the camera or they lost features they needed. Most here never update firmware. My 5442s are running 2019 firmware because the cameras flat out work and why fix what ain't broke!
If you run any cable external, consider putting it in conduit and/or have the cable be external rated.
I'd suggest getting one camera you know you're going to need somewhere, say a 5442 with a 3.6 lens, a POE switch, some cat5e or cat6, and start trying it in all the places you think you want a camera. If you find it is a good match except the field of view is too narrow, order a 5442 with a wider lens, or a 4k color for that spot. Unless you are in a hurry, you'll do better to build your system slowly and adjust along the way based on your experience and new ideas that will come to you as you go.
When I did this, I used the varifocal 5442T-ZE. I measured the viewing angle based on the IE11 explorer. So I can set the varifocal to simulate the view of other lenses by viewing angle. Here is the data and formula:
Formula to set a varifocal T5442T-ZE to emulate other fixed lenses.
I read countless threads on this problem and how it doesn't work. But I need to know fields of view so I can check beforehand if such a fixed lens would work in a location. Most manufacturers list the horizontal field of view angle. So I set the T5442T-ZE up and measured. I set it up exactly 4...
NVR: after reading around I have sort of realised it is better to get a non-POPE. Do you usually have a power switch in the roof area or run a cable from where the router / NVR is? Is there any risk of getting things on fire 
You should check the temp spec of that switch and PSU. And you should measure temp in your attic during a hot sunny day. Edit: (make that cold day, I just see you are down under)NVR: after reading around I have sort of realised it is better to get a non-POPE. Do you usually have a power switch in the roof area or run a cable from where the router / NVR is? Is there any risk of getting things on fire
But even if you get by with that issue, if the attic is not sealed, moisture may be another problem.
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CanCuba
Known around here
I have a Colour4K/X as a main overview camera. Between 11pm and 5am, it has a loitering detection zone set up for the street in front of my house and my property perimeter is set as a tripwire.
Three kids spent 20 seconds inside the loitering zone and the camera played the alarm on its external speaker and the 105db piezoelectric buzzer went off in our bedroom.
Kept the kids moving along.
ipcamtalk.com
Three kids spent 20 seconds inside the loitering zone and the camera played the alarm on its external speaker and the 105db piezoelectric buzzer went off in our bedroom.
Kept the kids moving along.
Loitering detection on a Color4K/X with alarm moves them along
Wife and I jumped out of our respective skins last night when the 105db piezoelectric buzzer went off at 1:22am. The Color4K/X had detected people in the loitering region I have set up between 11am and 5am. More than 20 seconds in the magic square and the camera sounds an alarm (audible in the...
I started with an amcrest wifi years ago. Loved it and planed on buying more then I found this forum. I bought a switch and a few cat 5 cables and learned how to change ip addresses with the cam next to me (bench testing) and not use wifi anymore. I have a good desktop so I bought BI and played with the cam (bench testing) testing what I could do. I've learned how to setup the computer, install a VPN, add a WP drive, setup a dual NIC, run wire and that there is lots of help here from members and search. Just remember there is no stupid question and do research, plan then plan again and go for it. You can't lose with the help here.
Ok guys, test camera, NVR and switch on their way. Any guide on how to test them with the laptop? Do I need to have a laptop fully dedicated to the system?
@wittaj the first lot of cameras was delivered I ended up buying this NVR DHI-NVR5216-EI + PoE switch and the following cameras to be tested: DH-IPC-HDW5442T-ZE; IPC-HDW5442TM-AS; IPC-T5241H-AS-PV. Also got the micro sds on their way ;-) Now, when we talk about testing, what do we mean in particular? I have been playing with the NVR GUI but I didn`t see many options. I am a bit lost in terms of guides to follow For the HDW5442T-ZE, for example, do I need to check if I can recognize the person at 20ft? Apologies for the newbie's question but I am not really 100% sure where to start from.
I ended up buying this NVR DHI-NVR5216-EI + PoE switch and the following cameras to be tested: DH-IPC-HDW5442T-ZE; IPC-HDW5442TM-AS; IPC-T5241H-AS-PV. Also got the micro sds on their way ;-) Now, when we talk about testing, what do we mean in particular? I have been playing with the NVR GUI but I didn`t see many options. I am a bit lost in terms of guides to follow For the HDW5442T-ZE, for example, do I need to check if I can recognize the person at 20ft? Apologies for the newbie's question but I am not really 100% sure where to start from.
bigredfish
Known around here
Most of your “options” will be on the individual camera interfaces. Always best to make any setting you can on the camera vs the NVR. They will synch. Try not to switch back and forth, if the setting is available on the camera, always do it there. Use the NVR for higher level functions of recording.
Broadly
1- get the NVR fired up using monitor and mouse for initial setup. Once you get the basics switch to a pc and wen browser to access the NVR (default will be 192.168.1.108 but you should change that in setup as all cameras on an external switch will also default to that IP)
Manage the NVR going forward via web browser. Better interface
2- connect cameras to switch one at a time and change their IPs to be unique.
Familiarize yourself with the camera GUI.
At first generally leave most image settings at default except encoding (bitrate) exposure, Gain. First goal is to observe motion (human, cars) with objective being little or no motion blur (mostly determined by available light, exposure, and DNR) . Settings will be different for Day and Night. Then you can begin to tweek image settings and finally setting up IVS for alerts.
Recommend installing SmartPSS on a PC on your network for live view , playback, and downloading clips and snapshots. Much better than the NVR interface for general stuff. (Your NVR has some cool features for higher level AI search and integration)
While you don’t have a PoE NVR, much of this older thread still applies and may be helpful
ipcamtalk.com
Broadly
1- get the NVR fired up using monitor and mouse for initial setup. Once you get the basics switch to a pc and wen browser to access the NVR (default will be 192.168.1.108 but you should change that in setup as all cameras on an external switch will also default to that IP)
Manage the NVR going forward via web browser. Better interface
2- connect cameras to switch one at a time and change their IPs to be unique.
Familiarize yourself with the camera GUI.
At first generally leave most image settings at default except encoding (bitrate) exposure, Gain. First goal is to observe motion (human, cars) with objective being little or no motion blur (mostly determined by available light, exposure, and DNR) . Settings will be different for Day and Night. Then you can begin to tweek image settings and finally setting up IVS for alerts.
Recommend installing SmartPSS on a PC on your network for live view , playback, and downloading clips and snapshots. Much better than the NVR interface for general stuff. (Your NVR has some cool features for higher level AI search and integration)
While you don’t have a PoE NVR, much of this older thread still applies and may be helpful
***PSA for those with a New DAHUA NVR with Built-in PoE switch
IF you have a Dahua NVR with built-in PoE switch... DO NOT follow instructions telling you to use the config tool or switch the IP of your cameras or initialize anything..! With NVR's typically with a -P designation (Built-n PoE switch - example: 4208-8P-4KS2) none of that is required and it...
I'd set up the camera as close to it's intended position and check the view. And then I would record myself or family member at night, moving quickly through the fov. Is that result good enough? If it isn't, you'll have to rethink.
Most of your “options” will be on the individual camera interfaces. Always best to make any setting you can on the camera vs the NVR. They will synch. Try not to switch back and forth, if the setting is available on the camera, always do it there. Use the NVR for higher level functions of recording.
Broadly
1- get the NVR fired up using monitor and mouse for initial setup. Once you get the basics switch to a pc and wen browser to access the NVR (default will be 192.168.1.108 but you should change that in setup as all cameras on an external switch will also default to that IP)
Manage the NVR going forward via web browser. Better interface
2- connect cameras to switch one at a time and change their IPs to be unique.
Familiarize yourself with the camera GUI.
At first generally leave most image settings at default except encoding (bitrate) exposure, Gain. First goal is to observe motion (human, cars) with objective being little or no motion blur (mostly determined by available light, exposure, and DNR) . Settings will be different for Day and Night. Then you can begin to tweek image settings and finally setting up IVS for alerts.
Recommend installing SmartPSS on a PC on your network for live view , playback, and downloading clips and snapshots. Much better than the NVR interface for general stuff. (Your NVR has some cool features for higher level AI search and integration)
While you don’t have a PoE NVR, much of this older thread still applies and may be helpful
***PSA for those with a New DAHUA NVR with Built-in PoE switch
IF you have a Dahua NVR with built-in PoE switch... DO NOT follow instructions telling you to use the config tool or switch the IP of your cameras or initialize anything..! With NVR's typically with a -P designation (Built-n PoE switch - example: 4208-8P-4KS2) none of that is required and it...
This is gold, thanks for directing me to the right post. I have got all up and running. A couple of questions:
- The number of settings on the cameras and the NVR is outrageous Is there any guide to learn about everything? I guess I will need to start with the basics like recording to sd, NVR and set all the various AI parameters. Even if keen to learn, I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment This forum is great by the way, plenty of info.
- What should I change encoding (bitrate) exposure to?
- The T5241H has cables for audio in / out. Should I connect those to the NVR?
- Do all the other cameras have mics and record simultaneously with the video or do I need to set up anything specific?
I haven`t run the cables yet but got a 30mt cat5a. All the rest is set up. I`ll do as suggested with a laptop so can see in real-time the video and see if everything works well.
Those extra cables are if you add external devices like mics, speakers, alarms, etc. For most people, just the ethernet cable is sufficient.
In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures.
You need to get off of default. You only think they look good because your camera hasn't been tested yet with a middle of the night perp. Even a great camera like the 5442 on default settings will result in motion blur ghosting at night and then all you can tell the police is what time it happened.
These are done within the camera GUI thru a web browser.
Start with:
H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes
Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.
We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.
In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.
Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.
After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures.
You need to get off of default. You only think they look good because your camera hasn't been tested yet with a middle of the night perp. Even a great camera like the 5442 on default settings will result in motion blur ghosting at night and then all you can tell the police is what time it happened.
These are done within the camera GUI thru a web browser.
Start with:
H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes
Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.
We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.
In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.
Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.
After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
You might want to check with your law. In some countries, outdoor audio recording of conversations is not allowed, in some places, it is considered a crime.
saltwater
Getting comfortable
Yes, here in Victoria (Australia) it is illegal to covertly record a conversation between other people if those people (all parties to the conversation) are unaware of their conversation being recorded. So, if one person, a party to the conversation is aware of the covert recording, then that is ok.