Just getting started, looking for IP Camera

[sgarv]

Hi all, this is my first post here. I am just getting started in researching and learning about ip cameras and video surveillance systems in general. I need to design and install such a such at a remote location. I will try to provide as much detail as possible.

I have two sites. The main site which is my house and a remote site which is out of state, so casually travelling there is impractical. I would like to install a video surveillance so that I can keep an eye on outdoor activity at the remote site. My wish list is the following:

• Outdoor day/night camera with high enough resolution so that anyone that is caught on video does not look like they had their face blurred out.
• Use of one or two cameras to cover the outside area as best as possible
• Motion sensor so that camera can take some action when it senses movement.
• Possible actions: Email alert, video record while motion is detected
• Possible alternate action: programmable so I can configure my own actions
• View and record video at the main site, possibly using my computers
• Other than the cameras and Internet gateway there will be no computers at the remote site

I need to consider how I am going to get the video signal from the camera to the Internet and then to my own computer. I am open to either WiFi or Ethernet. I also need to consider power to the cameras. If using Ethernet PoE (power over ethernet) is a possibility.

Cabling at the remote site is not easy, the entire structure is cement and solid brick. I would have liked to not have to do cabling, but if using WiFi I still need to cable power. And if Ethernet then the cat5e cable so either way I have to cable something.

I've just started researching all of the above, so I am not sure if any of the above items in my wish list are pipe dreams. Any assistance referring me to where I can educate myself, orientation or advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you! Sgarv

Edit: Forgot to mention. I saw this camera that caught my attention:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/428987/T7838_HD_Wireless_Pan_Tilt_Night_Vision_2-Way_Audio_Plug_-_Play_P2P_IP_Camera

By chance I saw it in one of this store's ads, but really have no info on it.

 

[fenderman]

If you will not be present at the location, you need to ensure that you can reboot each and every device in your chain remotely, there are various ways of doing this. First, what is your budget? Also forget about wifi...its unreliable particularly if you have brick. Run ethernet...if you cannot do it yourself pay someone to just run cable. Get quality solid copper cable not copper clad aluminum. If you don’t want a pc there that’s fine you can use an NVR. For motion sensors (assuming you don’t want to use in camera video based motion as that will generate false alarms) you will need to get outdoor pir sensors and cameras that support alarm in. Again we need a budget. Also consider that cameras with ir have issues with spider webs forming and blocking the view so you may want to consider keeping the camera in day mode and using outdoor led lighting.

 

[Razer]

A budget you have allotted would be most helpful, while this will not be super expensive it will also not be inexpensive to do this and do it correctly. $1000 at least should cover it for a couple of cameras if you need everything, managed switch ideally, remote power cycle device, cameras, cabling, NVR and motion sensors or other alarm devices.

 

[sgarv]

Thanks Razer and Fenderman.

Since I was just getting started with the research I had not defined a budget. Obviously, I want it as economic as possible, but also realize that for it to Just Work Every Time I will need to invest a certain amount. I just did not want to say something silly like $200 without knowing all the considerations.

I think that the $1000USD that Razer mentions is a good starting point. I will be happy if less, of course, keeping in mind that this is only for the video subsystem. I will allot a separate budget for other security devices. Sgarv

 

[dr.]

Thanks Razer and Fenderman.

Since I was just getting started with the research I had not defined a budget. Obviously, I want it as economic as possible, but also realize that for it to Just Work Every Time I will need to invest a certain amount. I just did not want to say something silly like $200 without knowing all the considerations.

I think that the $1000USD that Razer mentions is a good starting point. I will be happy if less, of course, keeping in mind that this is only for the video subsystem. I will allot a separate budget for other security devices. Sgarv

For going IP, take what you want to spend + 50% more for your budget. Tons of options will come up where you can "cheap out" but it's not advisable IMHO. Do it once; do it right.

 

[nayr]

Running Rigid Metal Conduit on Brick/Concrete is pretty easy, cheap, durable and secure and can be painted to match the exterior if needed.. Harbor Freight sells a nice large Masonry drill bit kit that makes nice big holes for punching EMT all the way through and even a cheap Hammer drill if you dont have one.. you can then mount the cameras to metal junction boxes that require much smaller holes be made.. ie, One big hole going in/out vs several big holes.

Remote Property:
I would suggest a head height Vandal Resistant Dome looking straight down the approach to the front; preferably a good choke point like a porch or something within a few feet so you can use a wide angle camera and still get ID.. I'd suggest a 3MP and get one with IR but try to turn it off and then supplement it with motion sensing security lighting, this will help keep bugs/spiders from messing up your view but will mean it has a mechanical IR filter and the LED's if you need it for occasional viewing. Then try to do the same thing for the rear entrance; those are the first 2 places an intruder are likely to try and your best chance at getting a good shot.. Consider doing some landscaping so you can force people to walk right up to your camera before they notice it and then you get a real good shot for ID. I am a big fan of the security lights that dim when there is no motion vs going dark; much more camera friendly.

An indoor hidden camera thats not going to be found and has the brains stashed away in a hard to reach spot w/a memory card inside recording the last few days, with audio would be good as you can catch names if there are multiple intruders.. I like HikVisions Pinhole cameras, it can email you when its facial recognition goes off which seems very good for applications like this.
Go for an NVR that has Alarm IO's and wire up pet immune outdoor motion sensors by the main entry/exit points and a very sensitive one in main room inside. If done right you will get many less false alarms and not become complacent being remotely notified.. one pesky moth or spider will ruin video motion detection, not to mention weather/distant lights/etc.

Find a spot you can stash the network gear/nvr/battery backup thats discrete, alot of times in kitchens there is a giant dead space under the cabinets in a corner or you can make a false rear wall in a closet.. If they do any casing of your property they will know about the cameras and know its a vacation property and figure its got to be recorded somewhere inside they can find.

 

[dr.]

Running Rigid Metal Conduit on Brick/Concrete is pretty easy, cheap, durable and secure and can be painted to match the exterior if needed.. Harbor Freight sells a nice large Masonry drill bit kit that makes nice big holes for punching EMT all the way through and even a cheap Hammer drill if you dont have one.. you can then mount the cameras to metal junction boxes that require much smaller holes be made.. ie, One big hole going in/out vs several big holes.

Remote Property:
I would suggest a head height Vandal Resistant Dome looking straight down the approach to the front; preferably a good choke point like a porch or something within a few feet so you can use a wide angle camera and still get ID.. I'd suggest a 3MP and get one with IR but try to turn it off and then supplement it with motion sensing security lighting, this will help keep bugs/spiders from messing up your view but will mean it has a mechanical IR filter and the LED's if you need it for occasional viewing. Then try to do the same thing for the rear entrance; those are the first 2 places an intruder are likely to try and your best chance at getting a good shot.. Consider doing some landscaping so you can force people to walk right up to your camera before they notice it and then you get a real good shot for ID. I am a big fan of the security lights that dim when there is no motion vs going dark; much more camera friendly.

An indoor hidden camera thats not going to be found and has the brains stashed away in a hard to reach spot w/a memory card inside recording the last few days, with audio would be good as you can catch names if there are multiple intruders.. I like HikVisions Pinhole cameras, it can email you when its facial recognition goes off which seems very good for applications like this.
Go for an NVR that has Alarm IO's and wire up pet immune outdoor motion sensors by the main entry/exit points and a very sensitive one in main room inside. If done right you will get many less false alarms and not become complacent being remotely notified.. one pesky moth or spider will ruin video motion detection, not to mention weather/distant lights/etc.

Find a spot you can stash the network gear/nvr/battery backup thats discrete, alot of times in kitchens there is a giant dead space under the cabinets in a corner or you can make a false rear wall in a closet.. If they do any casing of your property they will know about the cameras and know its a vacation property and figure its got to be recorded somewhere inside they can find.

And remember that a $1 mask makes all this worthless so balance the costs and expectations.

 

[nayr]

very true; but if you get instantly notified a man with a mask is on your property it gives you a shot of contacting the local sheriff and informing him of your situation.. Alot of remote property there is not alot of routes in/out of the area and there is a good chance if he leaves while the cops are on the way they will pass him on the way out to your estate.. If you are able to identify a vehicle type it could be useful.

Vacation Properties are often targeted by squatters; sometimes 4 legged ones.. Its showing up and realizing someone has been using all your shit while your were gone thats most disheartening than finding your stuff gone.. mostly because they often jumped out the back and ran off as you pulled up and now your sure they are going to come back if you leave.. cameras will pretty much stop this as either you will see someone in your property or go investigate why your cameras are offline.

 

[dr.]

very true; but if you get instantly notified a man with a mask is on your property it gives you a shot of contacting the local sheriff and informing him of your situation.. Alot of remote property there is not alot of routes in/out of the area and there is a good chance if he leaves while the cops are on the way they will pass him on the way out to your estate.. If you are able to identify a vehicle type it could be useful.

Vacation Properties are often targeted by squatters; sometimes 4 legged ones.. Its showing up and realizing someone has been using all your shit while your were gone thats most disheartening than finding your stuff gone.. mostly because they often jumped out the back and ran off as you pulled up and now your sure they are going to come back if you leave.. cameras will pretty much stop this as either you will see someone in your property or go investigate why your cameras are offline.

I doubt the local sheriff cares about a rich person's estate 15 miles in the woods. He likely cares even less if you're not rich. "Masked person wearing all black." Again, costs and expectations.

Alarms? Locks? Visiting your property more than once every few years? What is a vacation property even doing vacant? Either you are there or rent it out. Leaving it empty is pointless.

 

[nayr]

guess it depends on where your at; here in colorado a friend was living the winter in his cabin; all the other cabins nearby had been vacant for months because getting in and out of there was unreliable due to weather... I ran him up supplies when ever I could get up there.

He called the cops when he saw headlights coming up the road and then shutoff; he went outside fired his shotgun into the woods a few times and the car lit back up and tookoff.
On the way up the mountain the Sheriff pulled them over for a busted out tail light; found it full of 3 felons with guns and his neighbors stuff; they didn't even bother taking a statement from my buddy because there was enough in the car to send em right to prison..

If you call the cops and report a man with a ski mask in all black poking around your property and they dont give a fuck then you picked the wrong spot to buy property.. most counties that have alot of vacation properties do care about stopping break ins because its a very ugly stat they have to cope with.. catching one guy can solve dozens of crimes and stop alot more.

Had he not been up there the place would of been empty come spring without a trace of whom did it and probably full of wildlife after it sat for a few weeks with the door/window kicked open... he had good internet up there; some cameras in the right place would have accomplished the same as him.. I ended up helping him install a camera a half mile down his driveway near the mailbox so he could see when the mail came.. he gets pretty damn good shots of license plates now.

Vacation Properties can be had for less than a decent RV vehicle; not necessarily rich man territory and if its out in the middle of nowhere you dont need to rent it out.. why spend several hundred dollars in fuel to drag a camper up in the mountains (plus owning and maintaing a large truck and storing all the stuff in a city) for a month of R&R broken up across a year? Hunting cabins, Fishing Cabins, etc around here are mostly private and held and shared among families... renting is problematic... why buy a camper/boat/rv and park it in your yard for 95% of the year? people do it; deal with it.

Game Cameras can be great for vacation properties, you can hide them well and make them self sustaining w/a solar panel.. keeping remote property monitored is good security and insurance; can it be defeated? easily, should you give up and dont put any locks on your doors? fuck no.. I know some people whom's mountain property is literally a damn bunker and they still have problems keeping people out of it.

 

[icerabbit]

It is a balancing act, some low budget measures can have a very net positive effect, but you can't predict nor prevent everything. You don't have to go overboard; but of course having something up and running on a remote site comes at practical costs in terms of power and connectivity. But, let's just think positive and have realistic expectations, that preventive measures will have a positive effect, that being informed "live"-ish is better than months after the fact, that we all get reasonable police service, etc. Getting some gear up gives peace of mind, that you can check in remotely from time to time without having to depend on a local person you hire, if there's no full-time neighbor you can depend on within range, and you get a monthly report, maybe, or just at the beginning of spring in remote winter areas.

If one can capture some identifying footage, it may help solve a batch of crimes. There's always an element of randomness, bad luck and good luck involved in the grand scheme of things. You can only try to be ahead of the curve, and hope to have a better hand with some stills or footage. If anything make repairs or do some upgrades after a first incident to prevent more damage due to weather & animals getting in.

Up north from here, not too long ago somebody was finally caught after two decades of burglaries, and tied to many hundreds of property crimes. I do think there was a bit of a disconnect though, admitting to over a thousand crimes, and then being sentenced for a dozen and just serving a few months. But, I understand rehab is important. This guy was surviving off the grid and under the radar; which is a bit different than the folks going around to enrich themselves.