Just got burgled . . .

[Sully]

So, there it is one more for the "isn't hindsight wonderful" pile.

It was only my workshop but they took thousands of pounds worth of tools, just thankful they didn't try the house.

Have got over the part where I swear a lot but mostly feel helpless, now I just want my family and I to feel safe and secure again.

To assist with this I'd really appreciate some insight and assistance from the forum.

I have read plenty on here over the last few days, and am happy to order from China but have no experience of using aliexpress, etc, so am fresh meat for an unscrupulous seller, so advice on this gratefully received.

I am tech savvy, been in IT since the mid-80s, have a server running 24/7 that's hosting Blue Iris with a couple of crappy IP cams that I dropped in just after the break-in to cover my driveway and workshop.

I flood-wired my house with cat5e years ago and have cat5e feeds into my shed workshop, fence line and even my treehouse. Yes, I believe a man should be free to be connected at sunset, in a tree, with a beer in his hands . . .

I have been offered a few DS-2CD2732F-I at a fair price second hand by a friend upgrading and just wondering if anyone has experience of these in low light?

Some areas I would put them will have floodlights, but some are complete darkness overlooking fields around my workshop, a popular route in for burglars I have found . . .

Here is my plan so far from what I have read here:

Inside workshop:

I have PIR activated lighting, happy without PoE (already have a non-PoE four port switch there) would like audio in and out so thought of DS-2CD2432F-IW

Outside workshop:

Some PIR lighting (not floodlights but could install), some areas looking onto fields in deep darkness, as I'm not near town lights. Either DS-2CD2732F-I, the Longse S500 that klasipca rates highly, or another suggestion I haven't considered.

Outside garage/house:

Some floodlights, some PIR lantern-style lights, need one that could be adjusted so I can read the numberplate of vehicles coming up the driveway with headlights coming at it, but others just keeping watch on boundaries in total darkness.

Had thought of either the DS-2CD2732F-I or the Longse S500's again, but I also want at least one Huisun mini PTZ v2, well, because I love a toy and Klasipca is just so convincing. I think this should be on the treehouse looking over the fields to the boundary 80 metres away but realise this is a bit of a distance.

Inside garage/house:

Thought of DS-2CD2432F-IW again

All this is sounding so expensive it is making my head spin, so my thought was to find options I could possibly go to one aliexpress seller with and do a deal, but aware that is a big ask.

Feel free to ask if there is anything this IP cam Virgin has forgotten to say.

Thanks in advance,

Ian

 

[fenderman]

Welcome to the forum, the 2732 will not be good in complete darkness.
In general you are better off with dusk dawn lighting so that you dont miss anything when cameras adjust and that you get the very best image all the time.
I would suggest an alarm system before contemplating cameras.

 

[Sully]

Thanks Fenderman, already looking at the alarm system.

On that thought, is it useful to have cameras that link into the alarm system?

 

[fenderman]

Thanks Fenderman, already looking at the alarm system.

On that thought, is it useful to have cameras that link into the alarm system?

There are no quality integrated systems. Buy a good alarm system and a good camera system.

 

[dalepa]

I'm very happy with my Aliexpress Hik 3345 for $78 shipped. Huisun mini PTZ is fun too...

These Solar LED Motion lights help light to up the place after dark and are cheap and east to install.
.

Cameras may not stop them next time, but at least you have a chance at IDing them.


Start with a good lock...

 

[Jack B Nimble]

Some solid suggestions from the boys above, and pleased that on a camera forum are covering the other options such as a basic security system of which I would agree with. I hope you have insurance and if not I like content value type that allows you to set a value as opposed to a long list that must be updated.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Another vote here for an alarm system plus a good camera system. As for lighting, I like at least some dusk to dawn plus motion floods and additional IR if needed, particularly inside if you don't like leaving indoor lights on all night even in your shop. If budget is limiting, concentrate on camera choice and placement that'll cover the choke points and give you good face shots first.

 

[T1NYW]

Sorry to hear what happened..

I just wanted to add, that using PIR floodlights with cameras isn't always the best thing.

At the point the lights get tripped, the cameras get overwhelmed, and often switch from night to day mode.
which often takes a good few seconds.

You are far better off having constant lighting, using ether standard or IR lights.

A lower, but reasonable level of constant lighting, with IR Cameras is normally the best solution.

With modern LED lights, lighting up an area isn't as expensive as it once was.

Tiny

 

[riceandbeans]

@Sully - sorry to hear you got burgl'd dude. Just to put in my two cents, I'd say don't over-invest up-front. Knowing how to set up angles, lenses, lighting, NVRs is an art. It takes a lot of experience, patience, experimentation, etc. A mistake I find myself making (I'm sure there are others, too, you know who youa are! ) is to start identifying hardware that people on the forum recommend, and then buying a whole pile of it and not knowing how to integrate it. A well thought out, well-configured cheap cam will outperform an expensive cam that hasn't been designed/integrated well. I'd recommend to anybody to start with a single cam license of blue iris, a spare laptop, a poe injector, and a < $40 IP NV cam. This will get you in the sandbox playing around for less than the cost of a v2 mini ptz and will seriously hone down your idea of what you want in your next iteration.

 

[nayr]

Ive been moving all my security lighting to fixed timers and having IR spotlights turn on when the security lighting goes off.. Ive chased off a ton of prowlers up to no good, every one of them reacted to my physical presence but did not flinch when the lights kicked on.. heck ive even kicked them on/off/on/off just to let em know it was not just a detector that seen em and they still ignored it like they did not exist.. animals give pretty much the same reaction.

my thinking now is let the fuckers stumble around in the dark or the'll have to flip on there own lighting..

 

[SquareEyes]

Ah fuck it.

CCTV as last line of defence

 

[Snappyip]

Sorry to hear about the theft. Local thieves recently tried to steal my motorcycle from the side of my house, very upsetting. Here are some things I worked out once I'd calmed down from that "personal violation".
Basically make it a real obstacle course for them to get access, they will make an assessment from a previous visit how easy the target is to break into. Another test is to think you are intent on breaking in, look at how things are at the moment and try (I know it's not easy for honest people to think like a thief) and work up a list of access weaknesses.

A point on lighting, from what I have seen PIR lighting at night is perfect for thieves. They walk in at 03:00 and all the lights come on, perfect, just what they want! Think of IR, the type that electronic cameras respond to but to the human eye, nothing.

So my first line of defense was to erect physical gates/lock and fence, the bike had a big lock chain and that saved it that time. Something thieves see and know they have to overcome.
Then I placed a IR alarm sensor by the gate. It's a little PIR looking thing with a red LED. Break the beam and it sends a RF signal to my house in which a buzzer blasts off. They then know an alarm of some sort is installed and working. I have 2 such sensors and they work a treat, they are quite visible, the system cost less that £40!! (UK)
I found something triggers the alarm off in the early morning, more like a fox than thief, so I bought a IPCAM from ebay for £27 (bargain) it floods the area with IR light and I can use the IPCAM to take snapshots etc. Perfect.

The only thing I don't know yet is if thieves know how to detect IR lighting, if they do, the IPCAM with shine like a warning beacon.

 

[Sully]

Solid advice there Kawboy12R, made me think about the plot.

Thinking that IR Floods might be a good idea over white light as I live out in the country for the lack of light pollution, any views or considerations for me to chew over?

In danger of contradicting myself, but thinking that white light acts as a deterrent so perhaps not IR

 

[Sully]

@riceandbeans, Ii have taken that on board, I like learning from others, made enough mistakes myself for others to learn from!

I have got one very basic varifocal IP cam, one fixed wide-angle, making all the assessments now on the placements needed to cover all the points of ingress, but there are many as I am surrounded by fields . . .

Loving Blue Iris, will post some questions on that Forum as I can't seem to do anything settings-wise for these two unbranded cameras yet.

 

[Sully]

@Snappyip

I had already run power and a couple of lines of cat5 down to the gate posts, just need to get the electric gates ordered as this is a soft entry/exit.

They wankers came across fields though, saved them having to go past the house. Could you send a link to the IR alarm sensors? I'm in the UK too and £40 sounds like a bargain for a couple of these field entry points/weak perimeters I need to secure.

 

[Sully]

@nayr - I'm liking the way you think, IR floods plus dark, sharp obstacles carelessly placed at perimeters . . .

 

[Kawboy12R]

I love the idea of nasty traps but unfortunately I think they create more problems than they solve as far as revenge from crooks, local curious teens, and other friendlies goes, plus it leaves the trap-setter open for lawsuits and guilt from friendly fire accidents. As far as white light vs IR, I don't think white light is much of a deterrent but there's at least a slight chance that it will cause them to pick a less well lit neighbour (sorry neighbour). Constant white light plus motion lights helps your cameras and you (and unfortunately them) if you have intruders and you want to see what's going on without sitting at the camera monitor. IR is to get a better picture if your cams and white lighting aren't good enough to run in day mode and is a bit of a light pollution related and personal choice. Some spots I like lit at night and others I like it dark. White light might even attract some crooks because they can see you. You can't out-think every meth-head though, so I like me and my cameras to be able to see.

And as Square Eyes may have said (not sure if he was being sarcastic and I didn't read his first unedited post), cameras are a last line of "defence". They don't seem to be much of a deterrent against anybody except maybe mostly honest teenage girls thinking of stealing lipstick at the drugstore. I've never seen anybody come onto my property with bad intent and even LOOK at a camera, let alone see one and leave. That's been my experience anyway. Alarms are great for shortening the relaxed time they have on your property (steal quick and bolt is better than having them there with hours of free time) and dogs are great but only if you're a dog person. Don't get one if it's not going to be appreciated or looked after. Other obvious things are good locks and deadbolts, bars on your shop windows, a shotgun if you're comfortable with guns, etc. But, like with dogs, if you're a gun person you probably already have one so don't get one if you aren't comfortable with them. To me, a gun is like a pocket knife that I've grown up with since early teens. Plus, they introduce their own problems if used in a confrontation. So, in a camera forum we mostly talk about cameras even though they're often an "apres theft" tool that we would prefer never to have to use.

 

[riceandbeans]

@Sully - here's the PIR sensor I use. It has about a 10ft semi-circle read range and works very well. Wires up to 120VAC so you'd have to figure out power + relays if you wanted dry contacts or a low voltage solution (i.e. external trigger for a camera). Right now I just have it powering some automatic-on 120VAC lights in the garage for my wife when she gets home from work. HTH

 

[Snappyip]

Ah I notice the OP is in the UK too, so it could well have been the same "sub-culture" that visited my house to steal, pikies - but of course according to Human Rights, stealing is their way of life so.. and we must not criticize etc.

After the visit, I looked around and found this:

http://www.easyalarmsdirect.com/store/p1/Wireless_&_Weatherproof_Shed,_Garage_&_Garden_Alarm.._or.._Driveway_Visitor_Alert_(Extra_PIRs_Available).html


For the money it is great value, easy to set up, seems reliable in fact it‘s quite a well thought out design.

I made little “birdboxes” with no fronts to house the PIR sensors as they were going to be outside. The birdbox really was to keep the heavy rain off the sensor which are not really waterproof and so far, even after many heavy downpours the PIRs have stayed dry and worked perfectly.

It is an all wireless system, all battery powered. I found the batteries in the PIRs last for a year!! The base station though, lasted for about 3 months, so I now run it off the mains.

One benefit of this wireless system is that I could experiment with different locations for the PIR sensors which seem to have a huge detection zone. Local passing cars (heat sources) some 20 meters away would trigger the PIR, so I repositioned them for least false triggering.

Even the wireless remote control is a winner.

Another thing I like with the PIR/birdbox is that it is a clear visual indicator to everyone, there is an alarm system. Especially at night as when triggered the red LED shines so bright.

My scheme is to have a number of defenses, the PIR sends an alarm sound, and when I get the IPCAM working, photos of the thieves as extra evidence and I can be sure I'm pointing the finger of guilt at the right people although I gather now in the UK the pikies are not prosecuted.

I'm not really into weapons, I have thought about laying sneeky booby traps but I gather even barbed wire can be litigious, that would have been fun to design up. We in the UK don't have hand guns, I did think about a bow and arrow, very considerate on the neighbours I thought. No loud noise as they fell.

 

[pila]

Many excellent posts, maybe my favorite is excellent Kawboy12R comment above.

When I decided I needed to learn computer security for professional reasons, I soon realized I must learn about psychical security also. So, it is my hobby now (including lockpicking). What I learned is that regular people are not able to think like thieves. Ways I learned something can be open, you would never THINK of it. At least I was not able. I can pick a lock (not every lock) faster than owner opens it with a key.

It is not the same if we are talking about house with neighbors or if it is on the side, city or apartment. Also, different thieves: narcs will try to steal something without even thinking if they can get away with it, burglars will count more on opportunity and think what they will do and will mostly break in using brute force. Some will even quietly break in while people inside are sleeping!

Most people tend to speak about their field of interest (cameras, alarms, network, dogs, guns....) as the only aspect of security. In reality, one system never works. There is no lock which can not be open. But, if it is more complicated, it can cause thieves to move on to a less secure neighbor. Unless they want YOUR Van Gogh.

So, one needs multiple psychical obstacles: gates, good locks (most locks are trivial to open or break in under 15 seconds, about 99% of them). Alarm and cameras are both of use, some of them should be clearly visibile some hidden from plain view. Traps and arms are generally not good choice (think fire or neighborhood kids). Contact sensors on doors and windows sending siren to frenzy may be needed also. Cameras and security must be on UPS (1000 VA is good measure for a home, it will hold for hours) - all security components: server, switch, router, modem, cameras, recorder, alarm.

Recorder / server (and even cameras) will likely get stolen if home is burglarized. In that situation, only online recordings will be of use.

When a home is burglarized, typically it is not the loss of stolen items that is the largest problem. It may be very hard for one to feel at ease again in their own home.