Kenosha Shooter Kyle Rittenhouse; Criminal, Murderer or Citizen Defender.

[sdkid]

I don't disagree, but from the picture it looks as if it passed through the bicep. Often at very close range ammunition doesn't expand so you can get a clean pass through. This is one of the reasons SOCOM developed the .458 SOCOM - they found when house clearing at close range, 5.42 passed through causing little to no damage (although worth mentioning military ammo tumbles rather then expands). My best guess here, is as you said the energy. It ripped the muscle away being a relatively loose piece of the body muscle attached by a tendon at each end in a casing of skin rather than explosively removed it. I rather suspect had it hit the torso in a non vital area and missed bone, and thus hit a more supported area, it would have been a pass through. As you also said though, play dumbass games, win dumbass prizes and he won a doozy, disability for life.

No ammo "tumbles". It would be impossible to fire "tumbling" ammo at anything with any kind of accuracy. The Tumbling-ammo myth is often attributed to 5.56/.223 AR rifles by the gun control crowd as evidence as to how deadly they are, when the truth is that they are weak compared to other calibers. They are so weak that some states don't even allow them to be used for deer hunting.

I've put many hundreds of rounds through my AR. All the paper I have ever shot had nothing but beautiful little perfectly ROUND holes in it.

 

[sebastiantombs]

If the round grazed the bone as it passed through it could start tumbling extremely quickly. Result, exploded bicep.

 

[TVille]

No ammo "tumbles". It would be impossible to fire "tumbling" ammo at anything with any kind of accuracy. The Tumbling-ammo myth is often attributed to 5.56/.223 AR rifles by the gun control crowd as evidence as to how deadly they are, when the truth is that they are weak compared to other calibers. They are so weak that some states don't even allow them to be used for deer hunting.

I've put many hundreds of rounds through my AR. All the paper I have ever shot had nothing but beautiful little perfectly ROUND holes in it.

I believe they tumble after going through something, like a person, if they don't hit bone. Or after going through a couple of sheets of wallboard and the like. Not unique to the 5.56 though.

 

[bigredfish]

^^^^^^
This

 

[Oceanslider]

Hmmm, inquiring minds want to know, did farcebook ban the fundme postings for, let’s say, Peter Strzok, the person who while working as a taxpayer funded FBI agent said numerous times using government equipment that he was going against the then candidate Trump(“we’ll stop him”), and after he was elected as President. Yet….

 

[sebastiantombs]

Remember the commotion yesterday about an "enhanced" photo showing Rittenhouse "aiming" his rifle at people earlier. Here's the follow-up on that gem, and it blew up again for the prosecution.

Defense Lawyers Present Theory That Completely Ruins Prosecution's Claim Rittenhouse Was Aiming Gun

Yet another assertion made by the prosecution has been completely dismantled by Rittenhouse's quick-thinking attorneys.

www.westernjournal.com

 

[Oceanslider]

Remember the commotion yesterday about an "enhanced" photo showing Rittenhouse "aiming" his rifle at people earlier. Here's the follow-up on that gem, and it blew up again for the prosecution.

Defense Lawyers Present Theory That Completely Ruins Prosecution's Claim Rittenhouse Was Aiming Gun

Yet another assertion made by the prosecution has been completely dismantled by Rittenhouse's quick-thinking attorneys.

www.westernjournal.com

Dude, come on, it’s obvious from this doctored photo…he’s guilty

 

[wittaj]

Even that is better than what people are getting out of reolinks

 

[sebastiantombs]

I loved the prosecution "expert" who admitted he didn't know how the enhancement algorithm worked. The prosecutor is a total idiot putting him on the stand but he had to put someone up there. Saying the software is used all the time is meaningless.

 

[JNDATHP]

^^^ and, the “expert” admitted that the algorithm could introduce different colors. This to me means that the algorithm is adding pixels to the image which is altering the original image.

 

[sdkid]

I believe they tumble after going through something, like a person, if they don't hit bone. Or after going through a couple of sheets of wallboard and the like. Not unique to the 5.56 though.

Any bullet can do some very strange things when going through flesh. Consider the physics-- The only way it tumbles is from losing mass due to fragmentation on one side, throwing off the balance of the round as it travels. Tumbles is a misnomer at best. It evokes slow motion imagery of a tumbling bullet tearing through a body yawing end-for-end several times while mostly intact. Absolutely impossible. A bullet coming out of a barrel is already rotating due to rifling. A typical 55 to 70 grain 5.56 round is traveling over 3,000 fps. At close range It would go through the widest width of a body (laterally) in .000067 seconds. The rotational force required to add an end-for-end yaw motion on that bullet is just not possible. At best-- it could yaw only slightly (a degree or two?) in that amount of time. That small yaw would likely further disintegrate the bullet.

That said-- defective bullets or barrels CAN produce unpredictable yawing.


The bullet that hit that guys arm did not "tumble". It disintegrated. It completely and totally fragmented.

The deer I shot last year with my .270 was hit with a 130gr soft point bullet. The deer was walking straight towards me, and only about 40 yards away. I aimed below the white patch on the throat. Before I pulled the trigger, I thought--- this is going to be a stinky damn mess because that bullet is going to go right through the upper chest and rip through all the guts. The round caught the top of the rib cage and exploded in a spray of tiny fragments that destroyed the heart and lungs. NOTHING went beyond that-- no damage went beyond the diaphragm into the guts. it still ran 40 more yards, collapsing to my right about 15 yards.

 

[Oceanslider]

What is really on trial here, are our 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[CCTVCam]

No ammo "tumbles". It would be impossible to fire "tumbling" ammo at anything with any kind of accuracy. The Tumbling-ammo myth is often attributed to 5.56/.223 AR rifles by the gun control crowd as evidence as to how deadly they are, when the truth is that they are weak compared to other calibers. They are so weak that some states don't even allow them to be used for deer hunting.

I've put many hundreds of rounds through my AR. All the paper I have ever shot had nothing but beautiful little perfectly ROUND holes in it.

They are designed to tumble on imact not in flight and under the resistance from flesh. Similarly an expanding bullet doesn't expand on it's way to the target:

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MILO Live, formerly Shooting Range Industries, LLC provides custom modular shooting ranges, training systems, equipment & accessories. Click to learn more.

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It originally started with the Russians but some Allied military bullets are designed this way. The idea is to cause a wider wound cavity and transfer more energy whilst remaining legal under the Geneva Convention (?) which bans expanding ammunition from military use. Some regions use ammunition which is designed to break into fragments instead - US and some allies.

Most civilian ammunition is expanding simply because it's more effective at killing. It's causes terrible wounds though which is why it's military use is banned. A torso shot fom miltary ammo is likely to result in a wound. The same shot from expanding ammo is likely to result in dis-embowelment. I'd bet money on Kyle have expanding ammo but again it's worth noting, ammunition need time to expand and at close range with a very high velocity against soft tissue it is possible for ammunition to pass through unexpanded.

 

[sdkid]

They are designed to tumble on imact not in flight and under the resistance from flesh. Similarly an expanding bullet doesn't expand on it's way to the target:

Live Fire Shooting Range | Modular Ranges | MILO Live

MILO Live, formerly Shooting Range Industries, LLC provides custom modular shooting ranges, training systems, equipment & accessories. Click to learn more.

www.shootingrangeindustries.com

It originally started with the Russians but some Allied military bullets are designed this way. The idea is to cause a wider wound cavity and transfer more energy whilst remaining legal under the Geneva Convention (?) which bans expanding ammunition from military use. Some regions use ammunition which is designed to break into fragments instead - US and some allies.

Most civilian ammunition is expanding simply because it's more effective at killing. It's causes terrible wounds though which is why it's military use is banned. A torso shot fom miltary ammo is likely to result in a wound. The same shot from expanding ammo is likely to result in dis-embowelment. I'd bet money on Kyle have expanding ammo but again it's worth noting, ammunition need time to expand and at close range with a very high velocity against soft tissue it is possible for ammunition to pass through unexpanded.

Yaw is one thing-- it can/does happen on penetration, but it usually contributes to the disintegration of a bullet. You can see that with fragment path deviations in ballistics gel from the straight line. When you use a word like "tumbling" it implies something to people ignorant of firearms that is not true-- Bullets do not go ripping through flesh like a fidget spinner. Wound cavitation happens without any yaw or tumbling-- it's a function of bullet energy being absorbed or transferred to the flesh it hits.

For the umpteen zillion ballistics gel videos out there on youtube, I find it very strange that there are NO videos that actually show a bullet yaw so much if flips end for end 180 degrees or more. If you find one, please post it as I would love to see it.

sidenote: One video I did find was some seriously flawed bullshit propaganda from none other than the Washington Post. I mean-- a guy with a solemn voice over top of dramatic music just MUST be right! Be sure to read all the comments... LOL

 

[mat200]

Lots of variables on terminal ballistics .. found this video useful to get an idea of impacts




ref:

 

[Ssayer]

EXCLUSIVE: Potential Witness Tampering as Gaige Grosskreutz, the Felon Who Aimed His Gun at Kyle Rittenhouse, Had Two Prior Charges Dismissed by Prosecutors Only Days Before Trial | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft

Suspected witness tampering is uncovered in the Kyle Rittenhouse case as star witness Gaige Grosskreutz, who aimed his gun at Rittenhouse, had charges dropped by the prosecutor only days before being a witness in the case. We reported on Gaige Grosskreutz multiple times since last August when he...

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[Jessie.slimer]

5.56 will also break apart at the cannelure when yawing in flesh, causing multiple wound channels. But this requires some depth for the yawing to occur, as @CCTVCam pointed out. The bicep of that piece of human garbage was likely not big enough for this to happen. Early use of this round/rifle platform did not work out well. Soldiers were noting it took multiple shots to put down the skinny people that were being shot. The fmj bullets were not working as designed in this lack of resistance, and just punching .22 diameter holes in them.

 

[bigredfish]

Typical 5.56/.223 rounds in gel.

 

[sdkid]

@mat200 : That's a great video showing cavitation with an intact bullet flying fairly true to trajectory right out of the gel block! Too many see that and believe the bullet just MUST have been tumbling end for end to open up a cavitation effect like that. Nope. transfer of energy does it.

5.56 will also break apart at the cannelure when yawing in flesh, causing multiple wound channels. But this requires some depth for the yawing to occur, as @CCTVCam pointed out. The bicep of that piece of human garbage was likely not big enough for this to happen. Early use of this round/rifle platform did not work out well. Soldiers were noting it took multiple shots to put down the skinny people that were being shot. The fmj bullets were not working as designed in this lack of resistance, and just punching .22 diameter holes in them.

Rittenhouse was shooting 55 grain fmj bullets. Like you said-- it should have punched a .22 hole right through that bicep instead of exploding. I have read that some bullets may yaw slightly right out of the barrel until aerodynamics and rifling spin quickly stabilize it in flight. At a distance of less than 36 inches(??), could that bullet have come out of the barrel with enough yaw to hit that bicep flying at some yawed angle to direction of travel? No idea-- certainly possible though.


Somewhat , but .....

Different bullets/manufacturers can produce Very different results. In my own AR, I tried about 6 different kinds of ammo from 55 to 64 grain to try it out before buying a whole case of something. The Lake City American Eagle (Federal) 55 gr fmj always shot true. Hornady Frontier 62 grain spire point shot nearly identical to the 55-- though for some reason it pulls slighly left. Various flavors of Winchester 5.56 and .223 were all over the place with "groups" that were up to 4 inches across versus tight (for me) ~1 inch groups at 100 yds. Other people with different barrels may have completely opposite results.



and then the Winchester:



all shot from a bench rest...

 

[bigredfish]

Yup and different bullet weights will have different POI

55gr M193 PMC X-Tac


77gr BH TMK