Little Overwhelmed - Swimming Pool PTZ System Advice

[ogden]

So I've been looking at installing a Dahua PTZ system for our neighborhood association pool. I'd settled on the SD49225T-HN but I'm not sure if this is the right choice or not?

Basically we have decent lighting but an external IR could easily be added to the system. I'm needing good night tracking so please if I'm way off on this camera let me know. Temperatures range from 0-100 fahrenheit at the mounting point which is weather protected if that makes a difference.

We have a decent amount to spend on it but I'm trying to keep it within reason as it's our association and I don't want to blow money just to blow it.

If this is in the wrong place very sorry!

 

[Mikeee]

I'm not a 100 % sure but that model is the lite version and is missing ivs and dual 1080 streaming? Also auto tracking is really a gimmick imo you are better off using more cameras and having them trigger the ptz to the area.

 

[wxman]

Not sure what you mean by "night tracking"...If you're wanting it to automatically adjust the pan/tilt/zoom as people move (ie. Auto Tracking) then this model does not offer that....If you simply mean good night vision, this may be an option, with a few possible setbacks...

1. Auto focus tends to be a bit slow and inaccurate at higher zoom levels; particularly in low light and/or limited contrast...Not sure how this would perform if water is covering a large portion of the image, as water tends to wash out the image (pardon the pun), which may make auto focusing difficult...

2. There's white balance issues with some scenery (particularly when there's a lot of blue shades in the image) that can make the colors go way off...Often outdoor pools give a strong blue reflection, depending on it's surroundings, which may make your color inaccurate. Only a big deal if accurate color in your daytime scene is important.

Also of note, regardless of the camera you use, is the possibility of light reflection from the pool. Especially if there's overhead lights over the pool or if the pool is exposed to direct sunlight...IR lights at night could also cause strong reflection and create issues as well...Something to keep in mind as a possible setback.

Overall, the details of the particular scene will determine how much impact the above mentioned issues would cause you. Unfortunately, this may end up having to be a trial and error situation.

 

[ogden]

You're comments have actually concerned me a bit more as the pool in question is Olympic sized and quite large. In addition the backdrop just beyond the fence and in view of the camera is a pond...

Is there another model/setup that one might suggest for this scenario?

I suppose I would need IVS as I'm wanting to setup tripwire notification when the pool area is entered after hours.

Our man reason for implementation is we have had numerous vandalism issues and would like to identify the culprit.

I suppose to fight the glare from it on the water I could mount an external it light at pool deck level.

 

[Mikeee]

Forget the camera for now what recorder are you using?

 

[ogden]

I'm going to be using BI on an i7 nuc that I have laying around. At least that's the plan. Possibly using zoneminder if I feel like taking the time to actually configure stuff.

As far as remote storage I'm just going to fire off rclone on file change and send it out to the associations Google drive.

 

[Mikeee]

I would say use motion sensors and have them trigger the ptz but I'm not sure bi uses alarm inputs.

 

[looney2ns]

I think a PTZ is a wrong choice.
Look at this video just posted.
The multiple cams came in very handy.
Idiots with a fire extinguisher

Use this to see if it helps you any: Camera Calculator / Design Software
Keep PPF>100

 

[ogden]

I think a PTZ is a wrong choice.
Look at this video just posted.
The multiple cams came in very handy.
Idiots with a fire extinguisher

Use this to see if it helps you any: Camera Calculator / Design Software
Keep PPF>100

Thanks for the insight, the quality on those is excellent and I guess it makes more sense to have the whole picture instead of just what was of interest to the camera when it started tracking.
I may have to rethink this again...

Any recommendations for turrets that would be good in low light? I see a lot of the vari-focals coming up in discussions. Again, I've proven to be out of my depth in what I'm looking for here.

 

[looney2ns]

Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
For Id'ing purpose's, wide angle lense's are out.
Don't mount higher than 8ft, or you will just get tops of heads.

The nuc won't handle it.
Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

 

[wxman]

I would agree that in most situations, multiple fixed cams will serve better than one PTZ..Both Dahua and Hikvision make low light turrets that seem to do well...

If you were going to go the PTZ route, The Yunch 20x speed dome may be the best choice as of right now. They had a 10X mini-PTZ that was once popular, but they had high failure rates after a few months so I would not recommend those....Because of that, some discount the brand completely, but the speed domes seem to be pretty solid...Here's a thread where we discussed (and fought) over the newest starlight version...I'm seriously entertaining giving it a try to replace the Dahua 25x because the slow/inaccurate auto focus issues are driving me crazy:

Yunch 20x PTZ With Starlight Module.

Without having actually tried it myself, it's hard to say that I "recommend" this option...but based on initial results, it seems to me that it would be a better choice than the Dahua 25x....Only time will tell how they hold up long term, but that would at least have less focusing troubles....Doesn't solve the IR reflection in the water, so the external lights (IR or even ambient lights if you want to keep the night view in color) would probably still be recommended...That way, the lights could be moved and angled in different ways as to hopefully be able to minimize any direct reflection.

 

[Mikeee]

Yunch is sold and pushed by the same person who robbed everyone with the junk mini ptz's no thanks. Also someone on another form already had one fail.

 

[wxman]

Yunch is sold and pushed by the same person who robbed everyone with the junk mini ptz's no thanks. Also someone on another form already had one fail.

To each his own opinion...But my view is a camera that won't focus properly is almost as good as dead from day one...Personally, I think I'd rather plug in a new circuit board once every year or so and have it work the rest of the time rather than fight daily with a cam that won't focus...

 

[Mikeee]

I have installed 10 ptz's and never had a focus issue auto tracking yes but like I said it's a gimmick. I would rather not be robbed by the same guy who has robbed everyone in the past.

 

[wxman]

I have installed 10 ptz's and never had a focus issue auto tracking yes but like I said it's a gimmick. I would rather not be robbed by the same guy who has robbed everyone in the past.

It's possible that myself and some others may have just received bad hardware and the focus issues aren't present on all systems...Then again, perhaps it's also scene-dependent..Who knows! All I can go by is my own experience and a number of other posters experience, which leads me to believe that it's more than just an isolated case. In my case, the auto focus is extremely slow and the majority of images I get, I must manually focus first...If I try to zoom in on a person or animal, they go blurry and the focus jumps to the distant trees in the background forcing me to manually click the + sign on the focus to bring it closer. This often takes 20 or 30 seconds and the person/animal has usually moved out of the scene before I get the focus correctly. Perhaps this wouldn't as big of an issue if you were only monitoring a small yard to where there wasn't scenery hundreds of feet away that the focus could potentially grab onto...

As far as the Yunch guy goes, "robbed everyone" is not an accurate description. He sold a product and delivered the product as promised. Yes, a lot of them ended up breaking some 6 months to a year later, but he was standing behind the warranty which is all you can expect of a seller. Will these last? Who knows! That's the risk we take with electronics. Based on past experience I've seen from him, I trust he would stand behind his product if it did not hold up. If not, there's courses of action I could take that I suspect would make him rethink that decision.

 

[Mikeee]

If it's Jack Chen He did not stand behind the warranty he burnt me for three cameras and one was doa another was used and he blew me off and played like he "no understand my English" so tell me how he stands behind what he sells? Not looking for a trolling match with you just very sore in the rear still from good old Jack.

 

[looney2ns]

Back on topic for the OP please.

 

[wxman]

If it's Jack Chen He did not stand behind the warranty he burnt me for three cameras and one was doa another was used and he blew me off and played like he "no understand my English" so tell me how he stands behind what he sells? Not looking for a trolling match with you just very sore in the rear still from good old Jack.

Well I don't know what happened in your case, but that doesn't seem to match the experience of many other posters here who received replacement boards and such...but if you feel you've got a legit claim, I would stay on his case and would have used every measure of counteraction I could.

 

[Mikeee]

I think your best bet is to use a few fixed cameras or use a motion sensor to drive a ptz. Tripwire and other ivs I have found not as accurate. Maybe you can post a picture of the area. Water can be tricky with motion and tripwire,ivs. I have a dealership we monitor with a water fountain that would set off tripwire 40' away.

 

[CaliGirl]

So I've been looking at installing a Dahua PTZ system for our neighborhood association pool. I'd settled on the SD49225T-HN but I'm not sure if this is the right choice or not?

Basically we have decent lighting but an external IR could easily be added to the system. I'm needing good night tracking so please if I'm way off on this camera let me know. Temperatures range from 0-100 fahrenheit at the mounting point which is weather protected if that makes a difference.

We have a decent amount to spend on it but I'm trying to keep it within reason as it's our association and I don't want to blow money just to blow it.

If this is in the wrong place very sorry!

Def buy a PTZ camera that has a built in IR light. They will follow the camera moving and give you better results.

I also think it would be better to use a fixed camera with IVS trip wire setup. So anyone that cross the line you draw on the screen will alert security with a push notication, email etc. and it will flag the recordings and you have easy access to the scene for later. If you want to make it top notch do a fixed camera and tell the PTZ to track the subject when it senses them, but that is complicated.