Looking for a complete new camera system

[SmallTownCanadian]

Hey everyone, all the way from Southern Ontario, Canada. So I'll start off with the fact that I very recently got jerked around by someone who I previously had a camera system ordered from... I ordered December 1st, paid in full as agreed, and still until this past week no install job... I took numerous days off of work over the last couple of months as I was promised on those numerous occasions that he would be there to install the cameras etc. BUT it never happened, as I was constantly cancelled on. Finally I was able to get my money back recently and learned that it was a not so well reviewed system that I would have received.. SO, Needless to say I have been doing a lot of reading on here and other sites as well in order to piece together a good set up for myself.

I'm having a very hard time finding companies in general (let alone reputable ones) in my area who sell and or install GOOD complete systems and won't throw me a line of bs simply to acquire a sale. I have a few companies I'll be calling for prices on Monday.. Those are as follows. http://www.smartechcanada.com/index.php/ , http://cspalarms.ca/ , http://zoomedin.ca/ , http://www.eyeinskysecurity.ca/index.shtml

I have heard of the standard brands like Hikvision, Lorex, Swann etc.. The ones that these companies carry I haven't.

I'd like to keep my budget around the 1k mark for an 8 Camera system. The following are some key attributes I'd like in a system/Camera

-At least 1 possibly 2 Cameras capable of a very clear DAY and NIGHT view out to 60' ( will be watching out building doors)
- UPS battery back up
- IP system
-1080P HD resolution
- At least 30FPS recording @ 1080P per Camera ( if possible)
- High resolution an Frame rate
-700TVL or better
- Motion Detection
-4mm lens
- 1 maybe 2 PTZ capable
- Auto overwrite Hard drive
- DVR with Matrix display ( to edit out objects I don't want the Motion feature tripping over)
- Blue Iris, for off site monitoring, Android capable, instant text and email notification

If I missed any KEY features please feel free to correct me.. as mentioned I'm learning here so bare with me on my list.. I simply created it based on what I've researched from numerous sites. If anyone can recommend any complete sets that fit my needs, or any companies I should look into I'd greatly appreciate it!.

Thanks in advance folks

 

[Stealth22]

If you want 1080p, you can expect to spend about 1500 or even up to 2000 CAD, depending on the model, for decent cameras. Note that an NVR or PC running BlueIris will be extra.

I'm in Canada as well, doing about the same sort of thing. I'm looking at about 1400 or so for 8 Hikvision cams.

I'd find someone willing to run the wires and install the cameras for you. That's what I plan on doing, at least just for running the wires. The cams I can do, lol. You'll save some money if you buy the cameras yourself, and you'll get what you want.

If you're not that great with computers or networking, I would honestly buy one of the Swann combo systems from Costco.ca that comes with 8 cams and an NVR, and pay someone to install it. The Swanns are rebranded Hiks, from what I've read.
@nayr or anyone else, feel free to correct me anywhere that I'm wrong. I'm still learning as well!!

 

[SmallTownCanadian]

If you want 1080p, you can expect to spend about 1500 or even up to 2000 CAD, depending on the model, for decent cameras. Note that an NVR or PC running BlueIris will be extra.

I'm in Canada as well, doing about the same sort of thing. I'm looking at about 1400 or so for 8 Hikvision cams.

I'd find someone willing to run the wires and install the cameras for you. That's what I plan on doing, at least just for running the wires. The cams I can do, lol. You'll save some money if you buy the cameras yourself, and you'll get what you want.

If you're not that great with computers or networking, I would honestly buy one of the Swann combo systems from Costco.ca that comes with 8 cams and an NVR, and pay someone to install it. The Swanns are rebranded Hiks, from what I've read.
@nayr or anyone else, feel free to correct me anywhere that I'm wrong. I'm still learning as well!!

Thanks for the info!. I figured I'd be somewhere in that ballpark dollars wise for what I'm looking at.

I'm on 12hr continental shifts so I want something I can depend on for when I'm not home for some length of time. I have excellent neighbors, but they can't babysit my home all night long for me haha. Provided an incident did happen I want to at least have good video for the police and to possibly be able to identify a suspect.

My house is 1 story with a wide open attic and good access for routing wires without aches and pains of going through walls. I'm good with routing wires, even doing an install... my problem would fall into the programing of the system. I can handle detailed instructions but its not always a walk in the park.

So I suppose having someone come do that would make the most sense, either way I'd save a few bucks.

I was told by the previous installer that he could simply reconfigure my existing laptop so that I could just run BlueIris on there without needing a whole new stand alone computer. That is.. if he wasn't pulling my leg on that one too.

Either way I should hopefully have some prices tomorrow and maybe some info on how good these other cameras are. Like you say it would be beneficial to buy them myself.. I just need to get it right the first time around!


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[Stealth22]

Thanks for the info!. I figured I'd be somewhere in that ballpark dollars wise for what I'm looking at.

I'm on 12hr continental shifts so I want something I can depend on for when I'm not home for some length of time. I have excellent neighbors, but they can't babysit my home all night long for me haha. Provided an incident did happen I want to at least have good video for the police and to possibly be able to identify a suspect.

My house is 1 story with a wide open attic and good access for routing wires without aches and pains of going through walls. I'm good with routing wires, even doing an install... my problem would fall into the programing of the system. I can handle detailed instructions but its not always a walk in the park.

So I suppose having someone come do that would make the most sense, either way I'd save a few bucks.

I was told by the previous installer that he could simply reconfigure my existing laptop so that I could just run BlueIris on there without needing a whole new stand alone computer. That is.. if he wasn't pulling my leg on that one too.

Either way I should hopefully have some prices tomorrow and maybe some info on how good these other cameras are. Like you say it would be beneficial to buy them myself.. I just need to get it right the first time around!


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You can, but it needs to be running 24/7, which laptops are not designed for.

An NVR is probably the best solution for you.

 

[SmallTownCanadian]

You can, but it needs to be running 24/7, which laptops are not designed for.

An NVR is probably the best solution for you.

Noted.. thanks for the clarification, I will add this to the wishlist lol

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[Stealth22]

Noted.. thanks for the clarification, I will add this to the wishlist lol

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No worries!

If you're comfortable doing the wiring and camera install yourself, I would. You'll save a ton of $$$ that you'd have to spend on labour for someone else to do it for you. Unless of course, you feel its more worth it to just spend the money rather than go through the time/effort of doing it yourself!

And yeah, you don't necessarily need a PC running BlueIris. An NVR will only cost about $300, and if you buy a combo system from Costco's website, it'll come with the NVR anyway. NVR's are much cheaper than a PC, and relatively easy to set up. The only drawbacks of the NVR are, you're stuck with whatever cameras are compatible with the NVR (i.e. Swann NVR only works with Swann cams), and its not as flexible as BlueIris.

Personally, I'm going to go the PC/BlueIris route, just because I have a PC laying around that I can use (no extra cost aside from the BI license), and it gives me more flexibility.

 

[Kawboy12R]

In your first post you mention clear video day and night, 4mm lenses, and watching an outbuilding 60' away? 60' is quite distant even in the day for a 4mp cam with a 6mm lens. You'll see what's going on just fine, but you won't have enough pixels on target to identify anybody. It's hard to go wrong with a Costco system for warranty, but it sounds like you'd be better off with a mix of cameras with different lenses. 4mm is great for ID if folks are going to be walking right up to the door they're mounted over, but quickly fade at a distance even when they're 4mp. Great view of what's going on, but you'll likely be disappointed at 30-40' or beyond, particularly at night. My rule of thumb is a 4mm over every door and a minimum of 6mm for a car parked in a driveway. You can get away with 2.8mm at an entrance and gain a bit of extra FOV if needed at the expense of distance ID quality for those that don't come right up to the door. For watching buildings 60' away, a 6mm gives a very wide spread and isn't adequate for IDing strangers. If you have a 4mm doorcam mounted such that its FOV takes in the outbuilding, add a 12mm with an extra illuminator and train it on the door. The 12mm will help give you the WHO while the 4mm gives you the WHAT. All you need is one clear closeup face shot with a specialty cam while the wideangles on the doors cover what they did even far away from them. Depending on how the building's wired, you might be lucky enough to be able to use a pair of powerline adapters to get 'net inside the building. Then you can mount a cam inside as well.

As far as the laptop goes, I wouldn't recommend depending on a laptop to run Blue Iris. BTDT with two cams and had my i7 17" high end desktop replacement laptop overheat and shut down after about 2 days of continuous running. Let it cool, fire it up, and it'd run for about the same again before shutting down. Yours might handle heat better than mine, but it might not have the beans to run BI with 8 cams either. Get at least a surplus i7 2600 or preferably 3770 and use it and be happy. You'll be able to add some big HDs to a desktop as well.

The 4mp Hik turrets are decent cams (I've got a Chinese 3445-I), but I think I'd prefer these Dahuas if I did it over again- http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/ipc-hdw4421em-as-1204.html

Get at least some of the -AS models so you can have in-cam storage in case someone breaks in and steals your computer. They also have a decent built-in microphone.

If you don't mind braving AliExpress and offbrands, then your choices widen right up. Do a search on here for "megagixel" [sic] or "Huisun miniptz v1" for some interesting options. Heck, I picked a no-name eyeball dome with Sony's IMX222 sensor that was $35 US incl shipping whose image quality blows the hell out of a Hik 2032 minibullet side by side. Hugely better in the dark even side by side using the IR from both (helping the weaker 2032 even more) and it's sharper and has better colours during the day. The manual is a disaster and it doesn't want to load its IE-only plugin and display English instead of question marks for words with my Win7 64bit IE11 installation, but that's some of the adventure that is AliExpress. Works fine in Blue Iris though if you can muddle through the manual and kinda guess what the camera setup menu options are.

BTW, 30fps is overrated for security cameras unless you're watching folks counting money, cutting cards, or planning on publishing the video somewhere regularly for money. I like FPS as well as the next guy but most of my cams are on 15 or 10 fps to increase storage capacity. 15fps doubles the time capacity of your HDs over 30fps and will capture a prowler's face as well as 60fps. When in doubt, increase your image quality and storage time at the expense of framerates. I consider 2 weeks a minimum. When you've got more than enough storage and your system won't crump under the CPU load then increase your framerates.

 

[SmallTownCanadian]

In your first post you mention clear video day and night, 4mm lenses, and watching an outbuilding 60' away? 60' is quite distant even in the day for a 4mp cam with a 6mm lens. You'll see what's going on just fine, but you won't have enough pixels on target to identify anybody. It's hard to go wrong with a Costco system for warranty, but it sounds like you'd be better off with a mix of cameras with different lenses. 4mm is great for ID if folks are going to be walking right up to the door they're mounted over, but quickly fade at a distance even when they're 4mp. Great view of what's going on, but you'll likely be disappointed at 30-40' or beyond, particularly at night. My rule of thumb is a 4mm over every door and a minimum of 6mm for a car parked in a driveway. You can get away with 2.8mm at an entrance and gain a bit of extra FOV if needed at the expense of distance ID quality for those that don't come right up to the door. For watching buildings 60' away, a 6mm gives a very wide spread and isn't adequate for IDing strangers. If you have a 4mm doorcam mounted such that its FOV takes in the outbuilding, add a 12mm with an extra illuminator and train it on the door. The 12mm will help give you the WHO while the 4mm gives you the WHAT. All you need is one clear closeup face shot with a specialty cam while the wideangles on the doors cover what they did even far away from them. Depending on how the building's wired, you might be lucky enough to be able to use a pair of powerline adapters to get 'net inside the building. Then you can mount a cam inside as well.

As far as the laptop goes, I wouldn't recommend depending on a laptop to run Blue Iris. BTDT with two cams and had my i7 17" high end desktop replacement laptop overheat and shut down after about 2 days of continuous running. Let it cool, fire it up, and it'd run for about the same again before shutting down. Yours might handle heat better than mine, but it might not have the beans to run BI with 8 cams either. Get at least a surplus i7 2600 or preferably 3770 and use it and be happy. You'll be able to add some big HDs to a desktop as well.

The 4mp Hik turrets are decent cams (I've got a Chinese 3445-I), but I think I'd prefer these Dahuas if I did it over again- http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/ipc-hdw4421em-as-1204.html

Get at least some of the -AS models so you can have in-cam storage in case someone breaks in and steals your computer. They also have a decent built-in microphone.

If you don't mind braving AliExpress and offbrands, then your choices widen right up. Do a search on here for "megagixel" [sic] or "Huisun miniptz v1" for some interesting options. Heck, I picked a no-name eyeball dome with Sony's IMX222 sensor that was $35 US incl shipping whose image quality blows the hell out of a Hik 2032 minibullet side by side. Hugely better in the dark even side by side using the IR from both (helping the weaker 2032 even more) and it's sharper and has better colours during the day. The manual is a disaster and it doesn't want to load its IE-only plugin and display English instead of question marks for words with my Win7 64bit IE11 installation, but that's some of the adventure that is AliExpress. Works fine in Blue Iris though if you can muddle through the manual and kinda guess what the camera setup menu options are.

BTW, 30fps is overrated for security cameras unless you're watching folks counting money, cutting cards, or planning on publishing the video somewhere regularly for money. I like FPS as well as the next guy but most of my cams are on 15 or 10 fps to increase storage capacity. 15fps doubles the time capacity of your HDs over 30fps and will capture a prowler's face as well as 60fps. When in doubt, increase your image quality and storage time at the expense of framerates. I consider 2 weeks a minimum. When you've got more than enough storage and your system won't crump under the CPU load then increase your framerates.

Thank you very much for all the insight and information!, very appreciative of that. I'll be sure to keep all of these things in mind.

I actually had a company come by today to give me a quote, I was pretty shocked at the price... but he did tell me they were a higher priced company off of the get go however they stood behind the product and thier work.

Package as follows:
- 8ch dvr
- 8ch power supply
- 4tb hard drive
- 8 day/night WDR, IR, Hikvision turret cameras w/ 2.8mm lens and 1080p resolution
- LCD colour monitor
- power surge bar
- Coax and power cable ( he suggested they should be separate not run through CAT5)
- installation and set up included
- 3 year warranty on all parts for any manufacturer defect or failure

All of that to the tune of $ 6,780 taxes in


I think I really need to purchase and install myself!


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[Kawboy12R]

$6800 and he's installing cameras that use COAX? Damn, I need to get me some of that action. Sounds basically like he's installing the turret version of this system with a bigger HD and a $30 surge protector- http://www.costco.ca/Q-See-16-channel-1080p-HD-DVR-Smart-Surveillance-System-with-2-TB-HDD-and-8-1080p-HD-Camera.product.100232741.html

That's $750 which includes Costco's excellent warranty, which on CCTV systems is 2 years plus what amounts to their lifetime no-hassle warranty. Talk to the right people and they'll take it back anytime. PERIOD. So, say his cost is the same as Costco, that's over $5k to install it, presumably train you, and warranty it. Plus he didn't spend the design time to allow for picking a few cams with lenses that fit particular jobs? I haven't seen your layout but I seriously doubt that 2.8mm is the best lens for all 8 of your locations.

 

[Stealth22]

What the shit...$6800??!!

Dude...you're already ahead of the game because you can wire the CAT6 yourself. Just buy the Costco kit (or the cams from Nelly's if you REALLY want to DIY) and be done with it!

 

[fenderman]

That installer should be ashamed of himself...using coax so you can never upgrade to ip in the future. WOW. Its 2016.

 

[Jack B Nimble]

buy these and a trusted supplier on sale tomorrow for $70 bucks US . Im Canadian too, tell them to ship individually and you wont get hit with any addional fees. Get two POE 4 port spitters to run them and buy Blue Iris for 60 bucks and your good to go. As long as your PC is decent. Get the 4mm lens 480, and for some distance get a 2035 6mm. Should do your grand anyway, plus 150 for cable and ends or buy 4 cameras to get started on the important areas and one 4 port poe $60 bucks and teh Blue Iris. These are Hikvision cameras and great quality, turrets are nice for aiming and no spiders. Youll need a crimper too to put ends on for $30 bucks. Also if you have a phone buy tinycam pro for $6 bucks and you can see and watch cameras from anywhere , i use a Samsung 6.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Multi-language-Full-HD-V5-3-3-1080P-CCTV-Camera-DS-2CD2335-I-With-30m-IR/319147_32464044170.html

 

[tone363]

buy these and a trusted supplier on sale tomorrow for $70 bucks US . Im Canadian too, tell them to ship individually and you wont get hit with any addional fees. Get two POE 4 port spitters to run them and buy Blue Iris for 60 bucks and your good to go. As long as your PC is decent. Get the 4mm lens 480, and for some distance get a 2035 6mm. Should do your grand anyway, plus 150 for cable and ends or buy 4 cameras to get started on the important areas and one 4 port poe $60 bucks and teh Blue Iris. These are Hikvision cameras and great quality, turrets are nice for aiming and no spiders. Youll need a crimper too to put ends on for $30 bucks. Also if you have a phone buy tinycam pro for $6 bucks and you can see and watch cameras from anywhere , i use a Samsung 6.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Multi-language-Full-HD-V5-3-3-1080P-CCTV-Camera-DS-2CD2335-I-With-30m-IR/319147_32464044170.html

Thanks for this. Very similar to what I am wanting and went ahead and ordered 4 of these cameras. Will be running Blue Iris on an I7 machine. Was a little overwhelmed with all the choices but this seems like a no brainer for the price. Thanks again

 

[SmallTownCanadian]

You guys are absolutely right, the mark up is insane with this seller... I have absolutely zero intentions of spending anywhere near that kind of cash on a system, after all this isn't the white house!. It's definitely an eye opener hearing things from you guys who already have systems and know the in's and outs on security cameras.. I wish more people would do some research into things before being pressured on a sale, buying the first thing they see etc.. it's clear to see just how many people unknowingly get took for a ride out there by some businesses!. @Jack B Nimble those cameras in the link are the same Hikvision ones I was quoted on... what an awesome price that is!.

 

[fenderman]

You guys are absolutely right, the mark up is insane with this seller...

The price itself is not that outrageous (still high but not crazy) depending on the runs that need to be made, in wall etc. The guy needs to make a profit. Consider the costs to run a business. The issue for me is the system he is pushing....as you have found, you can do it better and cheaper yourself.

 

[SmallTownCanadian]

The price itself is not that outrageous (still high but not crazy) depending on the runs that need to be made, in wall etc. The guy needs to make a profit. Consider the costs to run a business. The issue for me is the system he is pushing....as you have found, you can do it better and cheaper yourself.

I absolutely agree, we all have bills to pay and money to earn.. some people wouldn't think twice on this, but for me specifically I've really gotta watch the dollar signs on this purchase due to ongoing renovations. I just never thought something could go so high for the average homeowner!. Likely my lack of knowledge for the industry..

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[Abbell]

It is all about supply and demand. There are several cameras that cost that much just for one camera. I picked up a camera on craiglist for $150 that sold in 2007 for $5k with all the bells and whistles