Looking for a good BI 101 intro \ overview

[nbstl68]

Hi,
This section of the forum appears to be dedicated to people who already know all about and use BI regularly to its full potential which is great, but,
I am looking for a really good general overview and introduction to BI.
...With opinions and reviews and maybe a broad list of it's features...i was hoping I could find a sticky or something that would be able to give people unfamiliar with BI, such as myself, but my searches have not turned up a lot for beginners.

My only experience thus far is with a basic (Q-See) NVR...While I liked it in concept, it seemed very limited...(but to be fair, it may have been just my model?). I could not access the camera interface directly, for example and options in the NVR seemed mostly basic an limited. I could only remote connect with the mfg's apps or internet interface which was also very limited, only worked sometimes and only for specific browsers and not well...so thus I'm wanting to find out all I can bout the "other option".

An example of some stuff going through my head I'd like to find out:

• The big obvious one...What all can it do really?
• What are the possible costs involved in using it vs. a NVR? (like I think I'd need a new hi-power computer and separate POE switch costs, at minimum, right?...good computers and POE switches are not exactly cheap)
• Pros \ Cons over a good quality NVR? (I've found a couple of threads listing some broader opinions on this)
• How does it "control" your cameras vs a NVR? (From reading other threads, it sounds like BI bypasses or can bypass if so chosen some or all built in camera functionality and does things "on its own"? Or am I misunderstanding?)
• Does it only work with Windows, (I hate Windows and it seems to be on a lot of people'sCON lists b\c of computer maintenance and Windows)?
• How powerful a computer is required?
• Will it work well with the new NUC mini PCs to make it compact and allow it to be hidden?
  • (Like these: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/overview.html)
• What are long time users' overall opinion and experience? Any frustrations
• How is the support \ bug fixes \ updates? It sounds like from some posts BI is basically a "one man show" as far as the creator\seller?

Any direction, personal advice, information and opinions is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[fenderman]

@nbstl68 This of blue iris as a super NVR. You need to download and play with the demo to see for yourself
Blue iris is 60 dollars. Depending on the number of cams and their resolution, you need a 300-500 dollar haswell i5 or i7 pc. BLue iris offers free support and updates for one year, thereafter is 30 dollars if you choose to buy support.
There are many threads listing the pros and cons.
Blue iris (and most other vms) is not designed to control cameras. Its pulls the camera feed. That said, blue iris can control basic camera functions like brightness/contrast etc, for many brands. It can also detect in camera motion detection if you wish for many onvif cameras (not all)
Windows only. There is nothing wrong with windows, its a super stable operating system. Folks who complain about windows are doing it just because...there is nothing superior about ios or linux at least when it comes to running a VMS. Nothing.
NUCs are under powred, overpriced and have no room for 3.5 drives and are a complete waste for use with VMS.
I have over 20 BI systems in operation. They all run smoothly. I would never go back to an nvr.
BI is a one man show and therefore you actually get FAST responses and updates. Often features are added within days. Try getting one of the big boys to make a change for you, ha.

 

[MartyO]

You need to embrace Windows and have some skill with it or BI will be very painful to get going.

Learning curve is not small but is manageable if you're will to get hands dirty, but If you want simple, get NVR. If you do purchase BI and don't like it you can use it as backup for NVR, but NVR needs to work with your cameras obviously.

 

[nbstl68]

NUCs are under powred, overpriced and have no room for 3.5 drives and are a complete waste for use with VMS.
I have over 20 BI systems in operation. They all run smoothly. I would never go back to an nvr.
BI is a one man show and therefore you actually get FAST responses and updates. Often features are added within days. Try getting one of the big boys to make a change for you, ha.

Thanks for the quick response.
I do not have personal experience with the NUCs but the specs, (at least the ones in the link I provided) show most of them use i5 or i7 chip and up to 32GB RAM....That does not sound under powered or am I misunderstanding the specs or something else about them? (other than the higher price tag). You can also get multi TB 2.5" drives relatively decent price.


With regard to the "one man show"...Is this app literally created, owned, sold by one guy?
What about support, fixes, updates if the old "Hit by a Truck" Scenario, (God forbid of course) were to occur...other than my being out $60 and the hassle of finding a new solution at some point?

The software sounds pretty impressive and well respected by people here.
I'm very computer literate, so that would not be an issue.

Sounds like it works with basically any mfg cameras? That would be a big plus since I have not committed to any particular brand yet.


Do you know of any site links or resources that may provide a full product walk through

 

[nbstl68]

Looking at the other forums...so Are products like iSpy, Milestone Xprotect and such basically BI equivalent software \ competition I should be looking at also before I make a decision, or are they for different purposes?

My needs are just home security surveillance...and playing around with them because I'm a bit of a tech geek type.

Oh, does BI have apps for android phones \ tablets?

 

[Illya_Kareoke]

Do you know of any site links or resources that may provide a full product walk through

YouTube is your friend.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8PWvH6h0GD6jM-e41KmtPw

 

[nbstl68]

Thx...I guess everything is on YouTube in some form or another. I've been searching around that too.

Anyone know how the whole compression thing works with BI?
Reading up on NVRs some are now doing K.264+" and some now say they do H.265, but not many....So how does this work with BI?
Can you select the compression or video capture formats?
Would it be H.265 compatible?

 

[fenderman]

Ispy has a perpetual monthly fee for alerts and remote access.. Milestone is 100 per cam if you need functions like write to nas its a good product but expensive. Not all i5 processors and the same. Don't waste money on a nuc. Even if the developer stopped development today it would be an excellent value. You will not be out any money. Blue iris does not support h.265 at this time, i dont believe milestone or exacq do either.. Storage is extremely cheap..bi has android and ios mobile apps, they are 10 dollars and far superior to hikvisions mobile app..

 

[fenderman]

YouTube is your friend.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8PWvH6h0GD6jM-e41KmtPw

note that all those youtube videos appear to be BI3...there are some important new functions like the timeline and simultaneous multicam playback that are not discussed.

 

[nbstl68]

Simultaneous multimedia playback?..you mean like showing or 8 cameras on screen all playing live or playback recording from the same previous time?
I just assume all nvr or other setups could do that already as the Qsee I had would do that andd it was not very high end.

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

 

[nbstl68]

No NUCs, check that off my list Thanks...anyone make a powerful but small pc? I have no room for a typical tower pc o way to hide it, which was my plan.

Who would pay monthly or yearly licensing fees or camera fees?

Does BI auto-detect cameras like NVRs do for the titled "plug and play" functionality, or is there a lot more initial up-front setup?

Can you directly access ALL the onboard camera functionality through BI?
It seems most NVRs cannot, (except something I'm now reading about some hikvision NVRs that have "virtual host).

I'm trying to figure out my needs and costs to use BI vs. A NVR.
NVR= monitor and cat5 to the router at min.
BI min? Powerful PC, POE switch, router, cables, correct? I'm finding 8-16 poe switches (I'm looking at 8-12 cameras all using POE), are not cheap.
Is also a super powerful video card upgrade a requirement too esp if I use that many cams that are at least 4MP and poss up to 4k some day (is 4k equiv to 8mp?)?







Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

 

[fenderman]

Dont built a pc unless you want to throw money away. You can buy hp elitedesk pc for 300. If you want a 3.5 inch drive get the SFF..if you want a small footprint use the USDT (only room for one 2.5 drive)..you can buy an i5 haswell 4590 for about 300 on ebay. No way you can build for anywhere near that.
Lots of folks pay monthly and per camera fees.
BI is not plug and play. You need to enter ip address, for some onvif cams it can inspect and detect the type of camera, but there is an easy dropdown menu.
No you cant control all camera settings in BI, no VMS can, its not designed for that purpose. Simply log into the camera itself. Virtual host is only needed because you can access cameras behind the NVR easily (it can be done), but with blue iris you have no such issue.
If you plan on using 12 4mp cameras you will need an i7 haswell or skylake pc for blue iris. At this time blue iris uses hardware acceleration with intel HD only so you are way better off with integrated graphics.

 

[Illya_Kareoke]

Dont built a pc unless you want to throw money away. You can buy hp elitedesk pc for 300. If you want a 3.5 inch drive get the SFF..if you want a small footprint use the USDT (only room for one 2.5 drive)..you can buy an i5 haswell 4590 for about 300 on ebay. No way you can build for anywhere near that.

fenderman, I get a bad feeling every time I look on Ebay per your recommendations. I'm ready to buy a i5 haswell 4590 but am unsure about sellers, best deal etc. I just need a system for my current cams and maybe 2 more Hics later. It would be nice if the fan noise was minimal since my desk is in the living room. I've already got monitors etc. Thanks

 

[fenderman]

fenderman, I get a bad feeling every time I look on Ebay per your recommendations. I'm ready to buy a i5 haswell 4590 but am unsure about sellers, best deal etc. I just need a system for my current cams and maybe 2 more Hics later. It would be nice if the fan noise was minimal since my desk is in the living room. I've already got monitors etc. Thanks

You must not be looking correctly. Check with seller for serial so you can check warranty status on dell/hps website. If you dont like ebay follow the dell outlet on twitter and wait for a sale. These dell/hp business systems are supper quiet you cannot hear them.
For example this system has a warranty until feb 2018 (see image of bios in the auction for serial number). Os is not loaded, but it has win 7coa which can be used to install a clean copy of windows 10 using microsofts free media creation tool
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/wc/public/find?rows[0].item.countryCode=US&submitButton=Submit&rows[0].item.serialNumber=2UA503144R
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-EliteDesk-800-G1-SFF-Core-i5-4570-3-2GHz-500GB-16GB-Win-7-Pro-/321978490577?hash=item4af769ded1:g:kywAAOSwX~dWmrr2
If you search/wait a few days its easy to find new systems for the same price. Last system I purchased was an i5-4790 with 8gb ram for 317 or so. In service date was only one month before purchase so it was likely never used or maybe a few days.

 

[fenderman]

If you want to spend a bit more for skylake and and an ssd, you can probably get this for about 500. (make offer). First confirm the radeon card is removable and that you can use intel hd (you need that for blue iris hardware acceleration) im almost certain it is.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optiplex-7040MT-8GB-DDR4-Intel-i5-128GB-SSD-Radeon-R5-3Yr-Warr-/262242723543?hash=item3d0ee266d7:g:86oAAOSwX~dWmW9~

 

[nbstl68]

...and another dumb question...BI requires "lntel hd"....what exactly is that?
Is it a specifi video card requirement, or is it a specific chips I'm looking for to be sure it is built in?


Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

 

[fenderman]

...and another dumb question...BI requires "lntel hd"....what exactly is that?
Is it a specifi video card requirement, or is it a specific chips I'm looking for to be sure it is built in?


Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

It doesnt require intel hd, but it can use intel hd for hardware acceleration with results in a HUGE improvement in cpu consumption. Any modern intel processors supports it. So you need a pc without a discrete card and uses intel hd. If you are buying a pc, its should be at least intel haswell or skylake.

 

[RobbieH]

This switch will get you 8 ports of PoE without breaking the bank. I've been using one just like it for a long time and haven't had any issues. I have seven 3MP Hikvision cameras on it, running 6 frames per second, and the uplink to the server hits around 11mbps, so no worries about it only being 100mbps.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GAATOG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

It doesnt require intel hd, but it can use intel hd for hardware acceleration with results in a HUGE improvement in cpu consumption.

Anyone figured out how to do this in an ESXi VM?

 

[ipcamal]

Anyone figured out how to do this in an ESXi VM?

doesn't look like its possible

 

[RobbieH]

I was afraid of that. Well, that's fine, the VM I have it running in is keeping up with CPU at about 50% on average. That's not bad with 10 cameras going. I guess if I were to get to the point I had to worry about CPU, I could always split it back out into its own PM.