looking for BI server spec recommendations

NetWorker

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It sounds like you can't go wrong with the new Haswell i7s but might not be what I need.

I was looking at an i7-5820k but with the need for DDR4 RAM it might not be worth it right now. This might be overkill for 15 - 20 cameras, not sure.

Another option is to go with a prebuilt server from Dell or other. Right now I'm looking at a Powedge T320 with Intel Xeon E5-2420 v2 Hexacore (6-Core) 2.2GHz (Turbo Boost to 2.7GHz) CPU

I have other plans for it but a BI a server is the main focus so I want to be sure this build runs it well. Would the Xeon E5-2420 v2 make a 20 HD camera BI setup happy?
 

fenderman

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@NetWorker..what are the specs on the cameras? 1mp? 2, 3?
 
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aaronwt

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It sounds like you can't go wrong with the new Haswell i7s but might not be what I need.

I was looking at an i7-5820k but with the need for DDR4 RAM it might not be worth it right now. This might be overkill for 15 - 20 cameras, not sure.

Another option is to go with a prebuilt server from Dell or other. Right now I'm looking at a Powedge T320 with Intel Xeon E5-2420 v2 Hexacore (6-Core) 2.2GHz (Turbo Boost to 2.7GHz) CPU

I have other plans for it but a BI a server is the main focus so I want to be sure this build runs it well. Would the Xeon E5-2420 v2 make a 20 HD camera BI setup happy?
Why not go with an i7-4790K? It's four cores, runs at 4ghz with 4.4 ghz turbo. And rated at a low 88 watts. While the i7-5820K might be six cores but is rated at a whopping 140 watts and only 3.3 Ghz(3.6Ghz turbo). Both CPus do two threads per core. The i7-4790K seems like a much better deal.
 

bp2008

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Always look at cpubenchmark.net

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5-2420+v2+@+2.20GHz

This reveals that the xeon e5 2420 is slower overall than haswell i7 despite having more cores because each core is much slower. It is also more expensive!

i7-4790k is plenty for 20 of just about any cam in Blue Iris as long as frame rates are kept under control and direct to disk is used. I use an older i7-3770k (not overclocked) to run 20 cams, about about 60-70 total megapixels and ~5 fps average. And I do this under 50% CPU usage. Well, under 50% normally but the current BI update actually has it higher at the moment due to some CPU-sucking bug.
 

Zxel

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@fenderman's question needs to be answered first because the number of cameras is irrelevant - it's the bandwidth (think pixels) you'll be pumping that matters. It will also matter if your plan is to use motion detection for recording/alerts or using continuous recording.

Since most NVR's are on 24/7 the amount of power you are using is EXTREEMLY important, your electric bill WILL go significantly up if you're running a high powered machine 24/7 that is not power efficient.

You will want a CPU with integrated graphics and that can scale itself as needed to conserve power - basically Intel is your option of choice (but stay away from the xeons). Any money you save on the machine purchase will not make up for the money it will cost you on your power bill. :cool:
 

fenderman

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To @aaronwt and @Zxel's points, the 5820k does not only consume way more power, it does not have integrated graphics, necessitating a discrete card which will add more power consumption, heat and point of failure..
 
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NetWorker

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@NetWorker..what are the specs on the cameras? 1mp? 2, 3?
the intention is a 3mp setup for most of the cameras but right now it's a combination of 1 - 3 until I can get the proper equipment in place.

Why not go with an i7-4790K? It's four cores, runs at 4ghz with 4.4 ghz turbo. And rated at a low 88 watts. While the i7-5820K might be six cores but is rated at a whopping 140 watts and only 3.3 Ghz(3.6Ghz turbo). Both CPus do two threads per core. The i7-4790K seems like a much better deal.
Great info! After reading others input on this subject it sounds like this might be the best CPU to go with right now. I really appreciate you pointing out these facts.

Always look at cpubenchmark.net

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5-2420+v2+@+2.20GHz

This reveals that the xeon e5 2420 is slower overall than haswell i7 despite having more cores because each core is much slower. It is also more expensive!

i7-4790k is plenty for 20 of just about any cam in Blue Iris as long as frame rates are kept under control and direct to disk is used. I use an older i7-3770k (not overclocked) to run 20 cams, about about 60-70 total megapixels and ~5 fps average. And I do this under 50% CPU usage. Well, under 50% normally but the current BI update actually has it higher at the moment due to some CPU-sucking bug.
I've been there in the past but clearly didn't do my research to find out those facts. Guilty as charged. The xeon e5 2420 definitely loses this battle.

Impressive setup you have there and the i7-3770k (Sandy Bridge?) is doing it's job and doing it well! Really good information, thanks for sharing.

@fenderman's question needs to be answered first because the number of cameras is irrelevant - it's the bandwidth (think pixels) you'll be pumping that matters. It will also matter if your plan is to use motion detection for recording/alerts or using continuous recording.

Since most NVR's are on 24/7 the amount of power you are using is EXTREEMLY important, your electric bill WILL go significantly up if you're running a high powered machine 24/7 that is not power efficient.

You will want a CPU with integrated graphics and that can scale itself as needed to conserve power - basically Intel is your option of choice (but stay away from the xeons). Any money you save on the machine purchase will not make up for the money it will cost you on your power bill.
Awesome post, electricity efficiency is the primary concern after making sure the CPU is capable of what I use it for. I intend to use motion detection recording/alerts instead of continuous recording. Continuous recording seems like it would be really resource intensive resulting in high power consumption, true?

Really glad I asked this question, from what I have learned so far an Intel with intergrated graphics seems like the best choice for that balance of 24x7 surveillance server. Definitely not a Xeon, yikes!

"it's the bandwidth (think pixels) you'll be pumping that matters."
Noted! I'll make sure to spread this important piece of knowledge.

To @aaronwt and @Zxel's points, the 5820k does not only consume way more power, it does not have integrated graphics, necessitating a discrete card which will add more power consumption, heat and point of failure..
Thanks for confirming these important points. Power consumption and heat are my top concerns for this server so thank you again for showing me the right path to take.

@all

Now that I'm headed in the right direction, I think it's time to get some parts.

Since I want to save as much as I can on electricity but still have the capability to handle a high megapixel setup (60- 70mp), would the i7-4790K paired with the right motherboard and power supply meet those needs?

I have building experience but mainly in gaming rigs and standard users at work, friends and family. I've always just used a standard desktop as a server but never really had a need for 24x7 uptime until now.

I'm having a hard time deciding what I actually need for this build instead of what I think I need. With gaming rigs I usually splurge for a fancy CPU cooler like the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO and a case plenty of fans for adequate cooling with power hog video cards. I also go for a heavy duty power supply like a Seasonic 700w.

From what you guys have taught me, it's time to change my thinking on this project.

Here is what I have in mind right now :

CPU : i7-4790K

*Microcenter has some decent prices on a CPU/Mobo combo but the nearest location 100 miles away and I get taxed so I'm not sure if the savings is worth the drive. Additionally The motherboards with these bundles seem a bit overkill for the server needs? I'm still trying to take this all in so maybe there is a gem in there, not sure yet.

http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx

Motherboard : I have no idea what to go with?? I should probably avoid anything geared towards gaming (my weakness in building) but still have quality basics like USB 3.0, ethernet chipset, etc. I usually go with a high end ASRock or Gigabyte brand.

Power Supply : Once again looking for some suggestions. I don't mind investing in a quality make/model I just don't think it should be rated for high output. Is a 300w a good choice?

RAM : Wit the new 64bit 4.x version of BI it can utilize more ram. Would 16GB be a good choice or overkill? Does speed matter?

Case : Not sure what to go with. Doesn't have to be full of eye candy and space is not an issue right now. Go with a small, mid or large tower? I plan to use 2HDDs (2.5" ssd for OS and 4TB WD purple for storage) but don't plan on any expandability other than another HDD down the road but I'll probably go with an external HDD for redundancy.

HDDs : SSD for the OS and WD Purple for the storage (Samsung Evo 840 or 850 are good choices?)

Fans / Cooling : Seems like I should have some for cooling but since they are spinning 24x7, the more I have the more electricity it will use. Are larger 120mm and above or small 80mm fans better to use?

Looking forward to some more replies. Thanks guys!
 
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Overcon

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fenderman suggests looking for deals on dells with the i7 CPU, but I still like to build my own. I have been looking at parts, this is what I will eventually get unless I wait too long and parts change. I have Amazon prime so i usually just buy from Amazon, price is usually less or same and shipping is free and no tax.

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KPRWAX8/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UOR17Y/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HKDA0U/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D1A5OR0/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1CPWE4BUHBCWE

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J8E8ZLK/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I wouldn't bother with 16GB , I have never seen Bi go very high on memory utilization. I got one of these cases, great unit with lots of room and no need for a screwdriver:

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FFJ0H3Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I am not sure a SSD for a boot drive would be warranted for this setup if this is just going to be used for a NVR. Your limited to lifetime writes, why push it since it's not going to be booted a lot? Waste of money in my book. As for fans, large slow fans are the best for cooling, they reduce power cost, move a lot of air and are quite because they don't need to spin fast.

And if you want HD's WD makes 6TB drives now, they even have an AV model, Purple I think:

http://smile.amazon.com/Intellipower-sata_6_0_gb-3-5-Inch-Internal-WD20PURX/dp/B00IMPO5MO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422380116&sr=8-1&keywords=wd+purple
 
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NetWorker

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Nice build! Thanks for taking the time to put up those links. It's a solid and affordable and I like that. Never seen a case like that, pretty sleek.

Good to know about the fans. Go big for power efficiency and better cooling. Got it! If that is the case why don't ALL computers have large fans? Too expensive? I understand you can use different materials like solid copper for better heat dissipation which is costly so I can assume larger fans are part of the equation.

Yeah now that you brought it up I'm not sure if an SSD would really be benefecial in a server that is on all the time. I does help with speedy startup and software installations but might not be worth it.

I'm already on the WD Purple train but thanks for confirming it's the one to go with. That is about the only thing certain with this build so far. It's almost like they made it just for BI :D
 

fenderman

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I agree with overcon about the ram...8gb is more than enough even with all those cameras..
Get a really efficient 80plus power supply at about 300w..you dont want to go high as that creates inefficiencies...
http://www.plugloadsolutions.com/80pluspowersupplies.aspx
I have ssd's in the units that can fit them (some of the very small ultra slims dont have room) You will never exceed the lifetime writes as the data is written the the HDD...They are super cheap...get a 128gb intel, samsung or crucial, most of the others are junk...as far as which model, it doesnt matter at all..they are all the same for your purpose (ignore the stupid bench marking)...
For the hard drive get a purple...With that many cams you may want to get two 4tb and split the writing between the drives...
The intel haswells run super cool, i would just use the standard cooling fan...
 

bp2008

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SSD not really necessary for Blue Iris. It can help to put the clip database on one, but it is not really necessary. I put one in all my systems lately just because they aren't prohibitively expensive anymore.

8 GB of ram is all you need. You'd find it difficult to get Blue Iris over 3 or 4 GB of memory usage even with 20 cameras.

For the power supply there is actually a fairly wide range of "80 Plus" certifications for different efficiency levels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus#Efficiency_level_certifications Whether or not a gold/platinum PSU would ever pay for itself versus a basic/bronze PSU is questionable though. Some very crude in-the-head math comes up with about 5 watts savings (give or take 5 watts). Multiply that by one year is 43.8 kWh which would be like $2.27 where I live, with a rate of $0.05193 per kWh. So more like $10 per year in some of the more expensive places.
 
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Overcon

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Nice build! Thanks for taking the time to put up those links. It's a solid and affordable and I like that. Never seen a case like that, pretty sleek.

Good to know about the fans. Go big for power efficiency and better cooling. Got it! If that is the case why don't ALL computers have large fans? Too expensive? I understand you can use different materials like solid copper for better heat dissipation which is costly so I can assume larger fans are part of the equation.

Yeah now that you brought it up I'm not sure if an SSD would really be beneficial in a server that is on all the time. I does help with speedy startup and software installations but might not be worth it.

I'm already on the WD Purple train but thanks for confirming it's the one to go with. That is about the only thing certain with this build so far. It's almost like they made it just for BI :D
More and more cases do or they leave a spot for one so customers can supply their own, like that case. It is also designed to support a 200MM water cooling radiator if you wanted. That PS is an 80 Plus Bronze model. I like the case because it doesn't require a screwdriver and it has the drive bays like a hotswap bays. All in all you might gain a few bucks in savings finding a slightly smaller Gold or Platinum style PS but when you're building the NVR you got to think about saving where you can. It's not a gaming machine and lord knows I have that problem when I build my PC's. Every system I put together I think about using it for games and in this case that's not what you are looking for, so sure an SSD drive might save a little boot time and maybe even some power consumption so it might be worth getting, not sure. I do know they have lifetime writes and while they are high, if you're running a database on them then all those writes add up over the years unless you upgrade :) Though I agree with fenderman, it will take a while to get there and model makes no difference, you're not really going for speed, you're going the distance route.

Gigabyte makes great, reliable motherboards, that's why I chose them and I like copper heatsinks because they are more efficient at heat distribution which technically can reduce power and save money somewhere along the line but the default cooler works or Intel wouldn't package them.
 

aaronwt

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I use an SSD for the OS and for the initial storage. After thirty days or a certain folder size the Blue Iris videos get moved to a platter hard drive. And then they stay there for 150 days or until the folder reaches a certain size. Then they get deleted.
 

Zxel

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I intend to use motion detection recording/alerts instead of continuous recording. Continuous recording seems like it would be really resource intensive resulting in high power consumption, true?
Continious recording is far less resource intensive. When you do motion detection it takes CPU time to analyze the frame for motion, just straight recording 24/7 is far easier and less resource intensive. If you do plan on using motion detection purchase cameras that do the motion detection themselves well and just send a "trigger" to BI telling it to record, this way the camera is doing the grunt work and not the NVR.

Also consider purchasing a small super power effecient NVR that you can keep hidden in case of theft of the primary NVR, Nelly's has one that is excellent for this:Eyesurv ION Series ESDV-NVRION-8 8 Channel 1080p Hi Def Mini NVR for IP Cameras, it's only $89 and all you need is a HD (a wireless mouse is nice too). It has a 1080p limit and only does motion for Dahua and EYEsurv (Dahua rebrand) currently, however, there is promises for Hikvision support in the future. Setting something like this to 24/7 record on a 2TB (or less) HD loop is fine for the theft security needs.

If the machine you are building is going to be dedicated as an NVR (what we call headless) and not doing double duty as a HTPC or game machine then have a critical eye on all things power related and sound related too (who wants a noisy machine?). Here are some small recomendations:

1. The Corsair Hydro Series of CPU coolers.
2. Pick a power supply efficient at the LOW end of the power band.
3. Motherboard doesn't need all the latest greatest features, just the latest SATA support for your planned HD(s), Intel CPU video support, USB3/2, the rest is at your need/discretion.
4. SSD for your OS drive - it doesn't have to be a monster, 128GB to 250GB is fine, they are inexpensive now, use less power, and will speed your overall system boot and speed.
5. Consider an external drive for backups. An external USB drive from several manufacturers are selling for less than the drive themselves - about $120 for 3TB and under $100 for 2TB.

It really doesn't take a super powerfull CPU to do recording, the motion detection is what is CPU intensive, a midrange computer could record under 100mbps if all it was doing is continuous recording. You are going to find that the CPU usage is far less then you think it will be once everything has all the proper settings applied.

Hope that helps. :cool:
 

NetWorker

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Thanks to everyone who replied!

Here are the important parts of my build :

CPU : Intel® Core™ i7-4790K Processor
Model : BX80646I74790K
http://ark.intel.com/products/80807/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_40-GHz

Power Supply : FSP Aurum S 400
Model : Aurum S 400
http://www.fsp-europe.com/aurum_s_400.php

Motherboard : ASRock H97M Pro4
Model : H97M Pro4
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H97M Pro4/

RAM : 8GB of Kingston HyperX HX316C10FK2
http://www.kingston.com/datasheets/HX316C10FK2_8.pdf
*Everything I have been told so far leads me to believe 8GB is more than enough
I realize the motherboard may not be as important but it's a Micro ITX size and wanted to be sure that was a good choice.
 

Overcon

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Continious recording is far less resource intensive. When you do motion detection it takes CPU time to analyze the frame for motion, just straight recording 24/7 is far easier and less resource intensive. If you do plan on using motion detection purchase cameras that do the motion detection themselves well and just send a "trigger" to BI telling it to record, this way the camera is doing the grunt work and not the NVR.

Hope that helps. :cool:
Can you give a little bit of info on how to set that up? I have a few cameras that do motion detection themselves, but I have always had BI do it, probably why I run at 80% usage all the time. If you could give some steps on how to configure BI and the cameras (Dahua and HIKVISION) I would appreciate it!
 
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Overcon

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Looks like a solid build Networker, though couldn't you find a PS in the 300's? Every little bit helps. What case did you use? I have a Lian Li PC-Q07B case that I use right now as a raid enclosure :), I might convert it to my DVR instead of the existing case and go with the same build.
 

Zxel

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Can you give a little bit of info on how to set that up? I have a few cameras that do motion detection themselves, but I have always had BI do it, probably why i run at 80% usage all the time. If you could give some steps on how to configure BI and the cameras (Dahua and HIKVISION) I would appreciate it!
I would not be the best person to give you advice on the motion detection setup, there are members here who use those models and would be better at describing the step by step process. Currently my cameras do motion detection inside the camera for what is recorded on their 32GB SD cards, they are Logitech 750e/700e cameras and how they work is specific to them. On the NVR I am recording all the cameras 24/7.

You are right on your CPU usage, having BI do the motion detection will have a measurable impact on the system.

I recommend asking @fenderman, he probably knows a thread already to point you at. :cool:
 
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