Lost in the maze. Looking for help

[FLGator]

First of all, please delete if this post goes against policies or is in the wrong place.

Next, I have been researching for over a year now and I am paralyzed by over-analysis. I am looking for IP PoE cameras that do well in very low light as I need 2 for my backyard. I watched the guy on YouTube called The Hook-up as he does great presentations. But then I came here as I could not really get a clear direction from him. I did buy a PC, Blue Iris, and a PoE+ switch just for my camera system.

I have purchased a couple (2) of different turret cameras from Amazon (thank goodness for their 30-day return policy) to test. One was a Lorex LNE9292 which seemed to have some good IR but I was using an app on my android to view and use the varifocal called IP Cam Viewer Lite (I don't want to pay for an app yet as I have not done research on those yet) which made the varifocal either go all 100% or none, no in between.

I have seen a few of @Wildcat_1 videos on the T5442 and T5482 but all the comments around this just help paralyze me. I have a 2 story house and I want to mount on the corner eaves but I saw somewhere here to not do that due to not capturing a face and only the top of a head but it is really the only place I can as no one can touch them.

I have about 60 feet from the camera to the back of the area I want to capture that is usually in total darkness (there are lights from neighbors that the camera will pick up over our fence), I also have about 100' from the front of my house to the street edge (I would like to capture any cars that go by just in case something happened elsewhere in the neighborhood or they park in front of my house and do something).

I was thinking of buying 2 of the T5442s for (asking for help on the tweaking of the settings) the 2 backyard cameras. Then for the front (there is a street light which is pretty bright and I have motion sensor flood lights there) maybe those Reolinks or something better but under $200 for the 2 front cameras.

I'd also like to not have any blind spots up close to the house, windows, doors.

Any recommendations and help in helping me make these purchases are welcome and very much appreciated. My Blue Iris and pc is all set up, no cameras added and I have yet to configure or do anything with Deepstack.

Thank you!
Gator

 

[Timokreon]

Welcome to the site. The folks will be around to help you out.
But you did great in coming here first before buying the cameras. I learned the hard way when I bought the Lorex package and THEN found this forum.

Would have saved me a lot of time, money and pain if I had found this place first. I am now to the point where I have only 1 Lorex cam on the exterior. It will be replaced shortly with a 4k-x camera which is coming the mail today.

Best of luck!

 

[wittaj]

Another person coming here after seeing the Hookup LOL. Fortunately it sounds like you don't fall under the category of those burned by the hookup!

If you bought the Reolinks and can return them, do so! They do not work well with BI, in addition to horrible nighttime ghosting and blurring and removing of body parts.

You will need more than 4 cameras. What is your intended use - to observe or identify? To eliminate blindspots, you need a camera at each entrance.

I started with the four 2.8mm camera box kit system and I was like "I can place one on each corner of the house and see my whole property and the whole neighborhood." A newbie loves the wide angle "I can see the whole neighborhood" of the 2.8mm fixed wide angle lens. I LOVED IT WHEN I PUT IT UP. I could see everything that would be blocked looking out the windows.

It is easy to get lured in to thinking the wide angle "see the whole neighborhood" because you are watching it and you see a neighbor go by and you are like "Look at that I can tell that is Heather out walking." and "Yeah I can tell our neighbor 4 down just passed by". Or you watch back the video of you walking around and are like "yeah I can tell that is me".

Little do we realize how much WE can identify a known person just by hair style, clothing, walking pace, gait, etc.

Then one day the door checker comes by. Total stranger. Totally useless video other than what time the door checking happened.

Then you realize that this wide-angle see the whole neighborhood comes at a cost and that cost is not being able to IDENTIFY who did it. These 2.8mm wide angle cameras are great overview cameras or to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet of the camera. At 40 feet out you need a different camera.

And like most, I stuck these wide angle cameras on the 2nd story to be able to see even more, which then means any IDENTIFY distance is lost vertically. Someone needs to be within 10-13 feet to identify someone with a 2.8mm lens. A camera placed 16-20 feet up means the entire IDENTIFY distance is lost in the vertical direction. They could be one foot away horizontally, but at 20 feet high, you will only get a good shot at the top of the head...

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

While the varifocals are great at helping to identify at a distance, they come at a cost of a reduced field of view, just like the wide-angles are great at seeing a wide area, but they come at the expense of IDENTIFY at distance.


With that said, I have made it easy for you. Check out this thread that shows the importance of focal length over MP (sometimes 2MP is a better option), complete with camera recommendations based on distance to IDENTIFY:

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[FLGator]

I have not purchased anything yet that I have not already returned. And I have never purchased a Reolink . Some of your statements here I read elsewhere today (been all over the site). I will take a look at that post and for all the reasons you mentioned about purpose, that is why I am posting as your site here made me realize I cannot go on The Hook-ups recommendations or videos alone.

Thanks

 

[sebastiantombs]

Do not be deceived by thinking that you have enough light in the back of your house from your neighbors. The light will be behind your subjects which means they will be back lit. That will eliminate practically all details until they are fairly close, as in 20 feet or so, of your cameras. That 20 foot number is an arbitrary guesstimate and will actually depend on the focal length of the camera lens. If it's that dark back there you may be better served adding an auxiliary IR illuminator. I use a rather large one to light up our back yard which is roughly 200' wide and 300' deep from the house.

Don't be deceived by light in the front, either. Again that light will be behind the subject back lighting them and making details impossible until they are closer. Therefore I'd say to stick with the 5442 series of cameras all the way around the house or at least an equivalent in a 2MP or 8MP camera. Again, depending on the situation, auxiliary IR may be needed.

As far as people fooling with your cameras most people don't even know they are there and can look straight at them and still not see them. This is especially true of turret cameras. Mounting them at 20 feet on 2nd story soffits will not be a good solution at all.

 

[wittaj]

Glad to hear you didn't buy any reos lol.

As @sebastiantombs says, putting the camera higher to prevent tampering or theft is silly. Most people are oblivious to them anyway and if they want to damage them, they will regardless of where placed. My neighbor has had his on his fence post that is less than 3 feet from the public sidewalk. Cams are only 4 feet high and nobody has touched them...most haven't even noticed them! They have been there for years. And if they do, then you have great video.

 

[DanDenver]

Yeah, your not dealing with black ops teams that have night vision IR goggles. Just perps that are desperate or just doing stupid things.
Always try to install cameras in pairs for the super unlikely event that they may target one of your cameras.
Besides, having cameras so high up makes them useless from a security perspective. Police cant search for, or convict, a perp based on a baseball cap image. This ain’t Hollywood.

 

[FLGator]

I'll need to see where I can place them then, the aesthetics is going to be an issue with the wife lol.

Do any of you know what that Lorex LNE 9292 is? I believe it's a Dahua right? But which model, could it be a 5442?

Thank you all for the responses. All very sound advice.

 

[wittaj]

While Lorex is Dahua OEM, it is usually cheaper quality.

This particular Lorex is 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor, or the same sensor Dahua puts on the 2MP. So totally budget cam to sell to the uninformed chasing MP over quality. It would need over 4 times the amount of light as the 2MP.

8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor is horrible and not an ideal MP/Sensor ratio and will perform poorly at night.

The 5442 is 4MP on a much larger 1/1.8" sensor.

 

[mat200]

Welcome @FLGator

Question / Issue: I have a 2 story house and I want to mount on the corner eaves but I saw somewhere here to not do that due to not capturing a face and only the top of a head but it is really the only place I can as no one can touch them.

Reply: Definitely 2 stories up on a soffit is too high for cameras if you want any chance to ID someone close to the house ..
I would look to drop conduit down to about 8 feet high and place a junction box there if you have a newer home which has some sort of house wrap to protect the structure.


Question / Issue: I was thinking of buying 2 of the T5442s for (asking for help on the tweaking of the settings) the 2 backyard cameras. ..

Reply: Absolutely, now while Andy has a sale is a good time to pick up at least 1-2 cameras to start playing with.

Personally the 5442 is every well liked and reviewed by members, so you can pick up a few more if you feel ready enough to jump in.

I would avoid Reolink ..



FYI - attached Lorex LNE9292 data sheet

In general the Lorex models I have seen available now are smaller sensor models which I would recommend avoiding unless you get a killer deal on them and want to use them in well lighted conditions ..

 

[Timokreon]

I'll need to see where I can place them then, the aesthetics is going to be an issue with the wife lol.

Do any of you know what that Lorex LNE 9292 is? I believe it's a Dahua right? But which model, could it be a 5442?

Thank you all for the responses. All very sound advice.

I have the Lorex 9292 in my garage. I THINK it's the equivalent to the Dahua 3841, with several settings taken out.

 

[sebastiantombs]

In terms of installing and WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) -

If you have vinyl siding you can drop the cable down the corner cap of the siding or attach it to the side/rear of a downspout if you don't have vinyl siding. Either way, you should be using an outdoor rated, solid copper, 23 gauge, CAT 5E or CAT 6 cable. The camera, itself, can be easily painted to blend with your siding.

 

[FLGator]

While Lorex is Dahua OEM, it is usually cheaper quality.

This particular Lorex is 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor, or the same sensor Dahua puts on the 2MP. So totally budget cam to sell to the uninformed chasing MP over quality. It would need over 4 times the amount of light as the 2MP.

8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor is horrible and not an ideal MP/Sensor ratio.

The 5442 is 4MP on a much larger 1/1.8" sensor.

Thank you

 

[FLGator]

In terms of installing and WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) -

If you have vinyl siding you can drop the cable down the corner cap of the siding or attach it to the side/rear of a downspout if you don't have vinyl siding. Either way, you should be using an outdoor rated, solid copper, 23 gauge, CAT 5E or CAT 6 cable. The camera, itself, can be easily painted to blend with your siding.

Unfortunately, we have an all brick house and the cables need to run up to the attic so 10' of wire or an expensive conduit would still not be wife acceptance. I'll need to figure something out on that front.

 

[sebastiantombs]

You have to have downspouts for gutters. Like I said run it on those to the rear or actually behind the downspout.

 

[FLGator]

Welcome @FLGator

Question / Issue: I have a 2 story house and I want to mount on the corner eaves but I saw somewhere here to not do that due to not capturing a face and only the top of a head but it is really the only place I can as no one can touch them.

Reply: Definitely 2 stories up on a soffit is too high for cameras if you want any chance to ID someone close to the house ..
I would look to drop conduit down to about 8 feet high and place a junction box there if you have a newer home which has some sort of house wrap to protect the structure.


Question / Issue: I was thinking of buying 2 of the T5442s for (asking for help on the tweaking of the settings) the 2 backyard cameras. ..

Reply: Absolutely, now while Andy has a sale is a good time to pick up at least 1-2 cameras to start playing with.

Personally the 5442 is every well liked and reviewed by members, so you can pick up a few more if you feel ready enough to jump in.

I would avoid Reolink ..



FYI - attached Lorex LNE9292 data sheet

In general the Lorex models I have seen available now are smaller sensor models which I would recommend avoiding unless you get a killer deal on them and want to use them in well lighted conditions ..

View attachment 137996

View attachment 137995

Thank you Mat, I think I will order 2 of 5442s as those will not be so high as the back yard is part hill so the cameras are about 10' high.

 

[wittaj]

No downspouts you could run it down?

Come up from basement and stick in landscaping? Folks have hid them in accent lighting, hose reels, birdhouses, the Welcome sign at the front door?

 

[FLGator]

No downspouts you could run it down?

Come up from basement and stick in landscaping? Folks have hid them in accent lighting, hose reels, birdhouses, the Welcome sign at the front door?

Good idea, I will need to take a look. I never thought about the downspouts. Thank you so much!

 

[FLGator]

In terms of installing and WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) -

If you have vinyl siding you can drop the cable down the corner cap of the siding or attach it to the side/rear of a downspout if you don't have vinyl siding. Either way, you should be using an outdoor rated, solid copper, 23 gauge, CAT 5E or CAT 6 cable. The camera, itself, can be easily painted to blend with your siding.

I completely missed the downspout idea here. Sorry.