Low light color under $1000?

fixxxer0

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Looking for some recommendations for a somewhat wide field of view camera where i'd still be able to ID faces at night in color (probably need 4MP+ @~4mm based on my current set up). Target zone is ~25ft from the camera.

I currently have Dahua 5442's turrets with BI and they are decent at night, have them dialed in as best as i can with a balance of no blur and keeping color - but they aren't clear enough at my range to make out a face at night (no problems in daytime).

I recently had someone break into my vehicles while in the driveway and the images are not really clear enough to make a solid ID. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 but not sure what other options there are.

The cams are mounted on the front of my house facing the street in NYC, with street lights somewhat nearby, so its not entirely dark. I'm a fan of turrets but i am skeptical there is anything better than the 5442s in this format. I could goto a bullet camera if it was a big improvement.
 

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wittaj

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Sorry to hear about your break-in.

Posting a pic or video would help us make a better recommendation, but for IDENTIFY at 25 feet, I would go with more than a 4-6mm fixed cam. I would go with the 5442-ZE varifocal turret and max the zoom to 12mm and I think you would get better results, or preferably the Z4E with even more zoom (but not available in a turret).

Now realize that this means your field of view tightens. So you would keep your current cam as an overview and then add one to optically zoom in to a pinch point.

 
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The problem with street lights is that they backlight your subject, the light is behind them and not in front of them. The makes brightness and contrast problematic. If you can add some foreground lighting, even an auxiliary IR illuminator, that will help a lot.

You could try a 5442 in the varifocal lens model. That will let you set the lens length to an optimal size and that should help.
 

fixxxer0

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The problem with street lights is that they backlight your subject, the light is behind them and not in front of them. The makes brightness and contrast problematic. If you can add some foreground lighting, even an auxiliary IR illuminator, that will help a lot.

You could try a 5442 in the varifocal lens model. That will let you set the lens length to an optimal size and that should help.
Yes i was thinking about that as well regarding additional IR lighting (but would have to do B&W).

I want to keep the wide FOV i have now, without adding a second camera for zoomed in shot. i know - i'm asking a lot ha...
 

wittaj

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Yes i was thinking about that as well regarding additional IR lighting (but would have to do B&W).

I want to keep the wide FOV i have now, without adding a second camera for zoomed in shot. i know - i'm asking a lot ha...
Yeah, not going to happen LOL. That is why I said keep this cam as an overview and then another camera optically zoomed in to a pinch point at 25 feet.

Disregard DORI numbers, especially at night. 6mm with these types of cameras will not get IDENTIFY quality at night at 25 feet.
 

fixxxer0

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Yeah, not going to happen LOL. That is why I said keep this cam as an overview and then another camera optically zoomed in to a pinch point at 25 feet.

Disregard DORI numbers, especially at night. 6mm with these types of cameras will not get IDENTIFY quality at night at 25 feet.
i added the clips from each camera...

i know these are the limits of these cameras, anything else within the ~$1000 range that can do what i'm looking for?
 

wittaj

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Thanks, those clips are helpful and the field of view and distance is better than I thought it would be. What camera/fixed lens are those now?

There is a lot of noise in those, so I think some tweaking could be done to further improve (although IDENTIFY will probably still be tough)

Additional IR would certainly help the B/W and may allow some IDENTIFY with a little bit of digital zoom.

No camera under $1,000 will give you that field of view and identify at 25 feet, except for maybe an autotracking PTZ.

I still think the 5442-ZE zoomed in tighter will be a great choice, especially if your car is always parked in the same spot.
 

fixxxer0

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Thanks, those clips are helpful and the field of view and distance is better than I thought it would be. What camera/fixed lens are those now?

There is a lot of noise in those, so I think some tweaking could be done to further improve (although IDENTIFY will probably still be tough)

Additional IR would certainly help the B/W and may allow some IDENTIFY with a little bit of digital zoom.

No camera under $1,000 will give you that field of view and identify at 25 feet, except for maybe an autotracking PTZ.

I still think the 5442-ZE zoomed in tighter will be a great choice, especially if your car is always parked in the same spot.
The noise is a result of the min shutter to avoid blur and very limited DNR also to avoid bluring of details. These are 5442 3.6mm, not the varifocals.

I have a 6mm in the driveway, but there is very little light there, but okay with IR since it's narrow
 

wittaj

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I am wondering if when the 4K/X comes out in a 6mm, that might possibly work in this situation, but you might not have that much time.
 

wittaj

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Did your 6mm get him going down the driveway or was that your neighbors drive?
 

mat200

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Looking for some recommendations for a somewhat wide field of view camera where i'd still be able to ID faces at night in color (probably need 4MP+ @~4mm based on my current set up). Target zone is ~25ft from the camera.

I currently have Dahua 5442's turrets with BI and they are decent at night, have them dialed in as best as i can with a balance of no blur and keeping color - but they aren't clear enough at my range to make out a face at night (no problems in daytime).

I recently had someone break into my vehicles while in the driveway and the images are not really clear enough to make a solid ID. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 but not sure what other options there are.

The cams are mounted on the front of my house facing the street in NYC, with street lights somewhat nearby, so its not entirely dark. I'm a fan of turrets but i am skeptical there is anything better than the 5442s in this format. I could goto a bullet camera if it was a big improvement.
Hmmm .. between the B&W and color you've got good data ..

Wondering how well the Dual Lens IR / Color camera would do there ..
 

fixxxer0

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Did your 6mm get him going down the driveway or was that your neighbors drive?
He was in a blind spot between my neighbors house and the car, in a shadow. The IR light reflecting off the first car in the driveway makes everything else behind it darker. He was at the 2nd car for this, so no good footage there unfortunately.
 
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Without focal length no camera will do what you want. A wide expansive view and details for anything over about ten feet just can't happen at night, simple physics. You can keep an overview in color to get that information but need to get a longer focal length in B&W to get the details at 25 feet. There's no way to avoid that.
 

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The first thing I would do is add light like your neighbor did.
With plenty of light, you might be able to get my with a 5442-ZE .

Could you get a camera closer to the car? Otherwise it's all going to be zoom and light.

Next thing might be the new dual lens camera color/IR
 

centrino

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Looking for some recommendations for a somewhat wide field of view camera where i'd still be able to ID faces at night in color (probably need 4MP+ @~4mm based on my current set up). Target zone is ~25ft from the camera.

I currently have Dahua 5442's turrets with BI and they are decent at night, have them dialed in as best as i can with a balance of no blur and keeping color - but they aren't clear enough at my range to make out a face at night (no problems in daytime).

I recently had someone break into my vehicles while in the driveway and the images are not really clear enough to make a solid ID. I'm willing to spend up to $1000 but not sure what other options there are.

The cams are mounted on the front of my house facing the street in NYC, with street lights somewhat nearby, so its not entirely dark. I'm a fan of turrets but i am skeptical there is anything better than the 5442s in this format. I could goto a bullet camera if it was a big improvement.
You got very good ambient lights, the Dahua Color 4k or Hik ColorVu Gen2 should be surprising you. (I switched from 5482 to Hik 2387G2, and it amazed me, F1.0 with 1/1.2 sensor size is just fabulous).
 

fixxxer0

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You got very good ambient lights, the Dahua Color 4k or Hik ColorVu Gen2 should be surprising you. (I switched from 5482 to Hik 2387G2, and it amazed me, F1.0 with 1/1.2 sensor size is just fabulous).
Are those the cams with LED lights instead of IR?

How do you think they would work here with the LED off, better than the 5442?
 

wittaj

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Are those the cams with LED lights instead of IR?

How do you think they would work here with the LED off, better than the 5442?
Yes the 4K/X cams have white LED lights instead of IR and do not see IR, so your camera shooting out IR or adding it later wouldn't help.

You would start to run into the backlit conditions potentially that @sebastiantombs references, but I did mention in post #9 above that the 6mm version when it comes out might be a good choice after seeing your field of view.

I think you have enough light that you would benefit from the 4K/X and not need the white LED on, but I think at night a 3.6mm would not give you an appreciable improvement over the 5442 at that distance. I guess if you are looking to upgrade, you could always get one and then move your current one around the side to cover the blackout spot that this perp passed by?
 

fixxxer0

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What is the model number of these "4K/X" cameras? I want to take a look. I might just try a 6mm further up on the driveway, worst case one of the cams goes in my growing pile of not used ones under my desk ha.
 

wittaj

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Here are the two models and links. Actually the 6mm is available in bullet now!

They are great cameras, but like every camera, they need to be placed on the right field of view. You have enough light that you could run it in the front without the white LED.

Bullet

Turret
 

fixxxer0

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Here are the two models and links. Actually the 6mm is available in bullet now!

They are great cameras, but like every camera, they need to be placed on the right field of view. You have enough light that you could run it in the front without the white LED.

Bullet

Turret
Thanks! Any idea if a 6mm turret is in the works?

I'm going to give one a try, but trying to avoid a bullet if i can.

Also - is the general consensus these are better than the dual sensor ones (for my use case)?
 
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