LPR for HOA?

[Bitslizer]

We are 310 houses and researching all options DIY and vendor managed (several instance of crew stealing from parked car and even 1 car stolen). hoping to pick everyone's brain here for past experience/insight

Flock is everywhere but like $1700+ per cam per year thats pushing the willingness of homeowners to approve the hoa fee increase. any similar vendor to flock?

DIY,

challenge
we have no club house or shed to host the server/nvr.
one entrance have no electricity and will need to be solar..... how do i calculate how much power I need for say 1 week without solar production due to snow covering the panels?

I will need between 5-6 z12e
connectivity... do we opt for 4g/5g which mean motion only or use a long range wifi options like pharos... line of sight can be an issue. the distance maybe like 1500 fts
need enclousre.... Blue Iris + PC? or a Dahua NVR?

 

[wittaj]

Calling @bigredfish that has gone thru this.

 

[biggen]

No chance without electricity at the entrance/exit. That needs to be done first. Not worth even discussing solar options because they are all DIY and will be expensive. You also need a location to put the DVR and run all the network cables from the cams to that central location. You don’t want to mess with PTP wireless. You want hardline. Long runs will need fiber.

A project this large involving this many people needs to be done professionally. That way when shit breaks (which it will) you have someone to call and fix it.

 

[bigredfish]

I’m kinda tied up in forecasting/budgeting (one of my two busiest times of the year and thankfully my last but let me give you some pieces of how we did it in 2016 though in a much smaller community 41 houses culdesac street 1/4 mi long.

1- at least get a quote from EagleEye as a hosted cloud solution.https://www.een.com/

2- we had new power and internet service run to our two pole locations (opposite ends of street) as well as having the 14ft poles installed. There’s usually both close by and the new service really wasn’t that much $. Get a quote for both services you may be surprised.

(We initially tried radios from the main location to the back but trees made it not very useable)

We did a 1X special assessment of I believe $100-$150 per homeowner and used some reserves money for the service and poles and cabling initial cost which included 4 cameras and was about $9000 total

Then we mounted an enclosure at each location that houses modem, router, NVR
So now we obviously manage remotely over the Interwebs.

Initially we went with EagleEye but I wasn’t happy with their choice of cameras at the time and bandwidth constraints hauling back to their cloud. I dropped them and did our own self hosting/self monitoring by adding the NVRs after a year. But EE has come a long way since then and by most accounts they are much better and support a much broader variety of cameras. Worth an ask.

Monthly Power bill is insignificant and our dedicated internet costs us $190 p/mo per location. This fits fine in a modest $20K annual budget

 

[wittaj]

Here are a few threads where @bigredfish went into more details.

Advice for Video Surveillance at subdivision entrance\exit

Has anyone here ever set up or contracted out a surveillance system for their neighborhood who could give me some advice on estimating costs and\or finding a reputable outsource solution? My HOA wants me to research setting up surveillance cameras at the entrance and exit of our subdivision and...

ipcamtalk.com

HOA demanding Hikvision NVR replaced with Milestone, Seriously?

I got word that a 15k unexpected expense for our HOA was coming to a meeting for approval tomorrow to replace an existing Hikvision NVR with Milestone. The reason they cited was "security concerns" and I will ask them to elaborate at the meeting. I received a copy of the quote, and was a bit...

ipcamtalk.com

Installation questions, neighborhood gate entrance location

Looking for experts advice. Our neighborhood is upgrading our front gate drive entrance / exit. Since we are in the Vegas area there has been much discussion about how to protect recording equipment from the intense summer heat. Current thinking is some type of housing unit for pc and storage...

ipcamtalk.com

Gonna need a little help...

So for a variety of reasons Im going to have to go to self hosting our HOA cameras soon. The cloud service we have been using is good, EagleEye, but the local contractor support isnt. I'm at wits end and want to go ahead and install a couple of NVR's and host locally. Sooooo.. my experience is...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Bitslizer]

Thanks a lot to Wade through.

As for solar... Flock are primarily solar no?

If we install ourselves it will all be diy anyway I'm not averted to installing a couple panels 12v lifepo4 and the bms/charger.

 

[DLONG2]

My suggestion would be to use one central BI server, and all the remote cameras covering all entrances to the neighborhood would be connected via Ubiquiti LAN radios. A pair of radios would run maybe $100 - $200. Ubiquiti makes a variety of these radios, some requiring line of site, others more generous with range, etc.

The homes closest to the entrances hosting the cameras would only need to provide power. This DIY solution would require a minimal investment, especially if you only need to record and store video of car plates. For a more expensive feature, a subscription to Rekor would allow better data collection and sorting.

 

[The Automation Guy]

Even if you could install solar for a reasonable cost, you still really need internet access too. I realize everything has a budget, but you really need to call the utility companies to get quotes about running electrical and internet to the entrance.

 

[DLONG2]

A standard LPR camera such as the Dahua's IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E attached to each home with a good view of the entrances costs about $250. Amazon seller 'EmpireTech" is the best supplier of English-language firmware cameras. Add in a pair of Ubiquiti (UI.com) LAN radios for maybe $200. The one time cost per camera is then about $450 to cover each entrance. A used PC on eBay might cost $250. Good WD Purple drives might run an additional $200. The BI license is $70. For using the LAN radios, a good choice would be Ubiquiti "prosumer" networking equipment; a gateway and a 16 port PoE switch might run an additional $600.

 

[The Automation Guy]

A standard LPR camera such as the Dahua's IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E attached to each home with a good view of the entrances costs about $250. Amazon seller 'EmpireTech" is the best supplier of English-language firmware cameras. Add in a pair of Ubiquiti (UI.com) LAN radios for maybe $200. The one time cost per camera is then about $450 to cover each entrance. A used PC on eBay might cost $250. Good WD Purple drives might run an additional $200. The BI license is $70. For using the LAN radios, a good choice would be Ubiquiti "prosumer" networking equipment; a gateway and a 16 port PoE switch might run an additional $600.

There are certainly "inexpensive" options out there like this, but the problem I have with this solution is the reliance on those resident's on going support. Not only will they have to be willing to install equipment/cameras at their house and keep it in good working order, they will have to be able to record the footage and provide that footage to the HOA when needed. That is a huge hassle for both the home owner and the HOA IMHO and if relationships sour or if the ownership of those homes changes, the HOA could very easily be "right back at square one" with nothing to show for it.

 

[bigredfish]

Even if you could install solar for a reasonable cost, you still really need internet access too. I realize everything has a budget, but you really need to call the utility companies to get quotes about running electrical and internet to the entrance.

^^^^^
This

With 310 homes, you can easily afford doing it right the first time and self hosting.

Also, relying on multiple homeowners to host reliable internet connections, or even one with total control of the BI machine, will likely turn into a clusterF down the road.

 

[DLONG2]

There are certainly "inexpensive" options out there like this, but the problem I have with this solution is the reliance on those resident's on going support. Not only will they have to be willing to install cameras on their house and keep them in good working order, they will have to be able to record the footage and provide that footage to the HOA when needed. That is a huge hassle for both the home owner and the HOA IMHO and if relationships sour or if the ownership of those homes changes, the HOA could very easily be stuck with nothing.

The use of LAN radios brings the video stream directly to a central PC running BI. The homeowner just has to provide the electricity. These radios can traverse 9 miles under ideal line of site conditions. UI makes a variety of LAN radios which might fit the need. Worst case is the LAN radios would have to be mounted high up on poles.

 

[The Automation Guy]

The use of LAN radios brings the video stream directly to a central PC running BI. The homeowner just has to provide the electricity. These radios can traverse 9 miles under ideal line of site conditions. UI makes a variety of LAN radios which might fit the need. Worst case is the LAN radios would have to be mounted high up on poles.

Installing HOA cameras on a resident's home/property is asking a lot more than just "electricity" even if the NVR is not located at their residence. My main point is that if the homeowner gets upset with the HOA or if a new owner doesn't want that stuff installed on their property, they can shut down the entire system and give the HOA the middle finger and there is nothing the HOA can do about it. As much as I am a supporter of CCTV systems, there is no way I would ever support a HOA setting up a system like this. I firmly believe that a system like this is doomed for failure at some point. Do it right or don't do it IMHO.

Long story short, a HOA should never set up a system that they don't control 100% of.

 

[DLONG2]

Such a network of cameras doesn't need to be associated with the HOA. It could just be a trusted individual hosting the server and LAN is association with other concerned homeowners. Assuming there a number of homes within zoom range facing the entrances then there are options.

 

[JacquesT27]

My best advice would be to start asking basic questions. You will know what do get when you have answered the questions.
I always ask myself these few questions.

• How am I going to connect to the camera?
  • If I have line of sight, I will use Ubiquity radios. If there is no line of sight, we get an ISP to install a point.
• What is my backup plan if the network goes down?
  • Usually we try to use cameras with ANR. If we can't, we run a dual WAN router with 4G as a backup.
• How am I going to power the camera?
  • We usually try to get an electrician to get power for us from the nearest home/building with a separate meter. The board usually pays the home owner for the power used at a negotiated rate. Failing that, the board has to contact the city/town to get a line installed with a meter.
• If mains fail, what backup solution will work best?
  • In South Africa we have load shedding where the power can be off up to 6 hours at a time. For a 1 camera and radio setup we usally install a 1KVa inverter with a 50A Lithium battery. The DoD is 50% most of the time.
• How long must the backup power last?
  • In my location I only have to worry about the 6 hours load shedding. When the city plans maintenance, and the power is going to be off for 12 hours or more we rent generators for that planned outage.
• How fast will the traffic move past the camera?
  • The faster the traffic move the better the camera has to be. Most installations have speed bumps at the entrances allowing us to install cheapies, such as the DHI-ITC237-PW6M-IRLZF1050-B-C2. If it's an open road we usually get the DHI-ITC431-RW1F-IRL8.
• How many LPR cameras do I need per entrance?
  • Not all LRP cameras support two lanes or more and this is highly dependent on the needs of the customer. I personally always quote on an LPR camera for each lane.
• Where am I going to house all this equipment?
  • We always have two all weather enclosures on site. One to house all the camera and networking equipment and the other for the inverter systems.

 

[Bitslizer]

The use of LAN radios brings the video stream directly to a central PC running BI. The homeowner just has to provide the electricity. These radios can traverse 9 miles under ideal line of site conditions. UI makes a variety of LAN radios which might fit the need. Worst case is the LAN radios would have to be mounted high up on poles.

Mostly I can work line of sight so it's not block by any house, but there will be some trees or bush in between, not a forest, maybe 2 or 3 at most and bush I can probably work with landscaper to trim them back if they are in common area.

 

[Bitslizer]

Such a network of cameras doesn't need to be associated with the HOA. It could just be a trusted individual hosting the server and LAN is association with other concerned homeowners. Assuming there a number of homes within zoom range facing the entrances then there are options.

That's a fall back option but at like $500 to start for a z12e + nvr + hd + accessories its a tough pill to swallow for most home owner coming from ring cameras. And hard to get the homeowner with the best view to sign up

 

[Bitslizer]

Installing HOA cameras on a resident's home/property is asking a lot more than just "electricity" even if the NVR is not located at their residence. My main point is that if the homeowner gets upset with the HOA or if a new owner doesn't want that stuff installed on their property, they can shut down the entire system and give the HOA the middle finger and there is nothing the HOA can do about it. As much as I am a supporter of CCTV systems, there is no way I would ever support a HOA setting up a system like this. I firmly believe that a system like this is doomed for failure at some point. Do it right or don't do it IMHO.

Long story short, a HOA should never set up a system that they don't control 100% of.

Yeah for long term consideration it would has to be HOA control. It's also better to spread the on going cost to ensure the equipment will be maintain

 

[Bitslizer]

^^^^^
This

With 310 homes, you can easily afford doing it right the first time and self hosting.

Also, relying on multiple homeowners to host reliable internet connections, or even one with total control of the BI machine, will likely turn into a clusterF down the road.

The problem is we have bigger fish to fry with our budget....

Changing the declaration.... Fixing up the landscaping the builder gave to us in crappy condition. Install aerator in the retention pond so we don't get nasty algae bloom... Etc...

 

[Bitslizer]

Even if you could install solar for a reasonable cost, you still really need internet access too. I realize everything has a budget, but you really need to call the utility companies to get quotes about running electrical and internet to the entrance.

Internet to the camera would be additional on going monthly cost I'm trying to avoid. 2 of the 4 entrance has electric hook up. But 2 doesn't... Well 1 does but it's across a pond... Too dang far away