Mainstream not showing up

[servicekrunk]

just checking if a solution has popped up, ive come to add variables. I have 3 hikvision branded 4 mp cameras, all set to variable w/max 4096 bitrate, 10 frame rate, 2688x1520 res, all on hand crimped cables. ive triple tested the cables, not the problem, have full bandwidth capabilities. i run a network monitor when i try this... when i try to live view from nvr web page i can see the network traffic goes up, but will not display a live view on any main stream, even if only one camera selected; traffic up, no video. it might display 1 for a few seconds, but then it stops. very sporadic and inconsistent. if i select sub stream from nvr, page it will show all 3 cameras with virtually no traffic over the network, cus the substream settings are so low. here is where it gets weird. i can open up 3 separate web browsers and get on to each camera, and watch live view from main stream on all 3 at once. according to the monitor its a little bit more traffic then seen when i try to view all 3 from the nvr page (with no actual video playing). ive fittled with the frame and bit rate, but wont display a main stream consistently.

 

[bamix]

servicekrunk, sorry but I don't have access to a HikVision NVR to check. I am using iVMS-4200 and there is a setting at TOOL => SYSTEM CONFIGURATION => IMAGE where you can toggle ON/OFF "Auto-change Stream Type". As I understand it this has the client make a decision on switching between main and sub-streams based on bandwidth use. I thought that 4 or more cameras was the trigger though. If you are pushing out both main and sub-streams simultaneously though then it should at least be dropping back to the sub-stream. If there is a similar setting at the NVR web interface Menu then maybe change that and see if it has any affect. Also, what browser are you using ? I know that recently Firefox updated to restrict web component executables but I think there is a workaround available. If you view off a Monitor connected to the NVR directly is the symptom the same or is it just on the web interface ? Let us know what you find.

 

[servicekrunk]

servicekrunk, sorry but I don't have access to a HikVision NVR to check. I am using iVMS-4200 and there is a setting at TOOL => SYSTEM CONFIGURATION => IMAGE where you can toggle ON/OFF "Auto-change Stream Type". As I understand it this has the client make a decision on switching between main and sub-streams based on bandwidth use. I thought that 4 or more cameras was the trigger though. If you are pushing out both main and sub-streams simultaneously though then it should at least be dropping back to the sub-stream. If there is a similar setting at the NVR web interface Menu then maybe change that and see if it has any affect. Also, what browser are you using ? I know that recently Firefox updated to restrict web component executables but I think there is a workaround available. If you view off a Monitor connected to the NVR directly is the symptom the same or is it just on the web interface ? Let us know what you find.

using internet explorer to access the nvr, and not seeing any settings like that. its just peculiar i can see all 3 the feeds in main in different windows directly from the cameras at once, with no strain on the network, but if i try to view them on the nvr page i cant

 

[servicekrunk]

after some research and deep meditation, i have come to terms that my hik DS-7608NI-E2 / 8P was a great choice for a starter basic system, just plug in the cameras and hdd and go, save money and be happy. I am fine i cannot live view all the streams in main, but as long as my recordings are in the high quality then bingo. had i spent more money on a newer and faster system, these live view dreams may have been reached. but for now, its low quality live view, and hd recordings.

 

[bamix]

servicekrunk, I agree that sometimes you have to accept a compromise, but this still remains an odd situation. I set up a HikVision NVR recently with 4 x 4MP cameras. If I set the NVR to take the full 2688 x 1520 resolution that the cameras were capable of then the Live View image on a 24" Philips LCD Full HD Monitor via HDMI cable was absolutely atrocious. I found that scaling the cameras back to 1920 x 1080 (basically 2MP) solved the problem. The Live View image was then crisp and clear. I found it odd that an NVR capable of recording up to 5MP camera resolution that was only ever able to output Full HD could not scale (down-sample ?) the Live View image somehow to retain a reasonable quality. I spoke with my supplier about it and they explained that at 4MP an output signal was being passed to the Monitor that it couldn't accept so the picture quality was impacted. It was added that to take advantage of 4MP cameras a 4K NVR and 4K Monitor was necessary. I understand that at 4MP the recorded image should have great resolution in order to be able to clearly define detail but this is difficult to explain to someone that paid for 4MP cameras only to have them run at a 2MP setting in order to be viewed clearly. Anyway, sorry for the long story, but I wonder if you tried running these cameras at 1920 x 1080 to see if that has an affect on the outcome. As I mentioned before, unfortunately I don't have a similar set up as you to test, just Hik cameras using iVMS-4200 with a separate Storage Server.

ps: You should never give up on your dreams........

 

[fvhjof]

If you want to lower resolution on your 4MP camera (let's say 2.8mm focus) to 1920x1080 it will automatically become 4-6mm focus camera as it will use only half of CMOS sensor.

Here is a very, very good comparison of NVRs. You should pay attention to green-lined information

 

[bamix]

Thanks fvhjof. So if I am reading servicekrunk posts correctly then he is running at 3 x 4MP resolution so the NVR decoder cannot process the images. If he streams direct from the cameras in separate Browser Windows it is OK as each camera is independently carrying out the decoding process. Is that correct ? According to the table, his NVR is capable of 6ch @ 1080p so running only 3 channels at a higher resolution it must be a borderline fail. As you point out, the 'Capability' would seem to be the most important factor. However, it is always relegated to the bottom of the decoding section in the table whilst resolution values of 6MP to 12MP star at the top even though they may never be realised. Just another marketing ploy then ?

servicekrunk, please let us know the result if you drop the resolution at the cameras.

 

[fvhjof]

If you stream directly from camera (web browser, rtsp player) you can see all streams in max that camera allows. E2 NVR can handle 6 streams in 1080p and that doesn't mean it can handle 3 streams in higher resolution. 1080p is MAXIMUM for this NVR no matter it streams 1 channel in 1080p or 6 channels in 1080p.

 

[bamix]

Thanks again fhvjof. I understand that live view by Video output of the NVR (via HDMI) is capped at 1080P. In this case, you are explaining that the decoding capability is also capped. However, if servicekrunk is just wanting to view output via a browser shouldn't that be simply limited by the outgoing bandwidth value ? If the camera is doing the heavy lifting (decoding) with higher resolution, why doesn't the NVR just pass that on as a stream within it's bandwidth cap ? 3 x cameras at 4MP should only account for around 30Mbps and the ceiling is 80Mbps. So, isn't data just data in this case? why does the NVR want to control the resolution of the images within that data ? There is still plenty of head room (around 50Mbps) for admin, remote viewing of sub-streams and etc. Therefore, a standalone NVR seems to be a disadvantage if it simply chokes everything down to the lowest common denominator. I am interested to understand the flow in this case, and the relationship between the IP camera and the NVR.

In the meantime, we should wait on servicekrunk's report on whether dumbing the cameras resolution down has solved his problem.

 

[fvhjof]

There are many things that Hikvision should fix..

 

[servicekrunk]

Sorry for the delayed reply, been unplugged for a while. Will lay out the probs with screen shots, and how I've remedied it tonite when I get back home. It's really simple, I promise; just sounds difficult.
Thanks all for the responses.

 

[servicekrunk]

In the meantime, we should wait on servicekrunk's report on whether dumbing the cameras resolution down has solved his problem.

first off, sorry to hijack the thread; second thanks for you time to read my problem and helping.
Im sure its not a bandwidth problem, illustrated in picture 002 and 003; i have the bandwidth! Ive jacked with all the settings, bitrate, resolution, quality, frame rate... even made my main stream the same settings as sub stream and was getting live playback issues. not as dramatic as at hd, it would display, but real laggy. its almost as if there is a problem with the nvr discriminating against the mainstream, but that doesnt explain why it displays hd live from the cameras just fine. ive resolved the prob for now by live view in substream when i want to view. playback can play main stream hd of all 3 at once, no lag or anything. this issue is just in live stream from nvr. the reason i am running the web app is because i do not have a dedicated monitor to the nvr, or computer to run blue iris or ivms; and i can tell you i have the same problem with ivms so...

for these captures my camera settings were cameras running at 2688x1520, var bitrate type, high qual, full frame rate, 8192k max bitrate.

What i CAN do,

Picture 001: running web app to nvr, live view, substream

Picture 002: individual live main stream from cameras, 3 at once in different windows no lag

Picture 003: playback on nvr, 3 cameras in hd, no lag or problems


what i CAN NOT do:

Picture 004: live view main stream, 3 cameras

Picture 005: live view main stream with 1 camera

 

[bamix]

servicekrunk, as I probably already mentioned I don't have an NVR to access the Menus but there can be a similar problem with iVMS where an Image Setting is included to 'Auto-change' the stream type in order to conserve bandwidth. Check out this video as it includes a couple of ways to get around this characteristic. I know that simply clearing the checkbox works but I haven't tried the second method of manually adding the streams via Custom Protocol. Let us know if it is helpful.

 

[servicekrunk]

@bamix thank you for the
video, i did find some of the information interesting. since i set up my nvr in october, i have had the problem i described. as soon as you replied, i got on and went to see what i could do on my system according to the video and crazy as it sounds... i can view main streams in live view now!!! 8 months ive delt with it, and just watching your movie fixed it! i have spent the last hour logging on and off to view the live streams, and every time i am able to view in main stream. didnt change a thing. ill keep trying to get the live view to not display main streams but for the last hour everything has been flawless. so weird!


UPDATE: think ive noticed this before on my setup and pretty sure its because its night and the cams are in low light mode. will try back in daylight and see what happens. strange it would be able to handle low light images in hd but not daylight, the settings are the same.