Monoprice TVI IR PTZ looks suspiciously like a Hikvision...

[hiklicker]

Hello all, first post here. Been in telecom for a decade and have started doing camera installs lately with an emphasis on Hikvision products. I really like their Turbo HD line for the balance between cost, ease of use, and picture quality. I had always regarded HD analog as two steps forward, one step back, but after realizing that not every situation demands 5 MP and seeing what the Turbo HD units can do, I'm a believer.

Anyhow I've ordered a DS-2AE7230TI-A (1080p Turbo HD IR PTZ) from my distributor to play with so I can get familiar with the PTZ line, then I noticed Monoprice has an identical-looking camera in 720p (1.3 MP) though with a shorter zoom, and unbranded. It is also HALF the cost of what I pay at WHOLESALE for the 7230.

I might pick one up to play around with because for $400, if it really is an older Hikvision unit that is still some serious performance by a name brand manufacturer for an incredible price. I did have an online chat with Monoprice asking them very directly if it's just an unbranded Hikvision and the only response he could give me was "It will work with with a Hikvision DVR". Understandable as they may have agreements not to divulge their suppliers, though my concern would be that this is a knockoff and could potentially have issues with longevity, compatibility, support, etc.

I tried searching the forum and didn't really come up with anything particular to this unit. Has anyone tried it out? If not, I'll order one up and compare it against the 7230.

 

[Del Boy]

Looking like and actually being the same are two completely different things when it comes to all Chinese cameras.

I would recommend asking them if it's Hikvision OEM to be sure.

 

[hiklicker]

Looking like and actually being the same are two completely different things when it comes to all Chinese cameras.

I would recommend asking them if it's Hikvision OEM to be sure.

Yep, that was my concern. The Chinese are really good at replicating.

The rep wouldn't acknowledge whether or not it's OEM Hikvision. I asked him "Is that all you're allowed to say?" and he confirmed it was. That's not unusual; I don't tell my customers where I get my stuff from.

Anyhow I just ordered one. For the price I couldn't say no as I have a spot to put it anyways. Both should be here in a couple of days so I'll see about making a video comparing the two. There are usually telltale signs internally that point to something being OEM such as placement of components, finish on metals (i.e. glossy vs matte, same tone, etc.), flexibility of plastics, and such that can be giveaways that something is legit or not. For example if you look at a W-Box camera it's pretty obvious Hikvision manufactured it. I guess we'll see!

 

[Del Boy]

For Hikvision OEM they are only too happy to say it's Hikvision OEM. This is different to other stuff which people then brand their own. Pagani say their engines are from Mercedes and Citroen are happy to admit Toyota make their C1.

If they don't say, then it's not in my experience.

It's TVI so, I don't know if it has to be Hikvision or not.

 

[Q™]

The answer might be found in the firmware interface of the "OEM version" compared the the branded retail version; I'd be interested to know if comparing the two firmware interfaces reveals anything @hiklicker.

 

[hiklicker]

I'll try to put them side by side on the DVR and compare the two when they arrive. I don't think I'll have the resources to mount them in the same location to compare image quality side by side but should be able to get a representative look at performance.

 

[fenderman]

@hiklicker I believe it is rebranded hikvision. Monoprice sells rebranded hikvision cams...also note that LTS another hikvision rebrander sells what appears to be the same camera under PTZH773X23IR

 

[hiklicker]

So I got both units in today and have had the chance to compare them side by side.

While I obviously can't say with 100% certainty, I am supremely confident that the Monoprice unit is indeed just an unbranded Hikvision DS-2AE7123TI. In addition to being identical in construction the manuals are identical (with 1 digit off to account for 720p vs 1080p model), CD is identical, components are identical, power supply is identical, the boxes are identical, hell even the foam inserts are identical. Simply too much minutia to replicate if you were making a knockoff of a relatively low-volume and very complicated-to-manufacture unit such as this (ever priced out a mold for aluminum housings?).

One thing to note is the Monoprice unit even comes with the wall mount arm while the 7230 from ADI does not and must be ordered separately. Even being in Canada with shipping, duties, taxes, and exchange, I'm saving up to $400 over the 7230's wholesale cost! If you don't need the 1080p and 30x zoom (and you're running HD-TVI of course) that Monoprice unit is an absolute steal.

I currently have the Monoprice cam mounted in the shop and it performs awesomely. Very acceptable resolution for the cost, the PTZ functions are flawless with a Hikvision Turbo HD DVR, and the IR at night is phenomenal. Sadly the corner bracket didn't make it in today so I'll have to wait to get it mounted outside.

Overall, VERY impressed with the deal from Monoprice!

 

[hiklicker]

Okay so I finally got the beast mounted and have been playing with it for the past few days. In my mind there is no question this is an OEM Hikvision DS-2AE7123TI. I wrote a review on Monoprice's site lauding this thing because its performance for the price is outstanding.

I do have some minor quibbles. First one is not the fault of the camera but I wish the lens had a shorter close-range focal length than 4mm. Currently it's mounted about 25 feet up on the corner of a building and the FOV at minimum zoom doesn't quite give as wide a picture as I'd prefer when looking down. I'd say this unit would best be suited higher up at 35-40 feet to gain a wider FOV though it's still quite acceptable where it is; I just ran out of building to put it on. It is worthwhile to note that most other Hikvision PTZs actually have longer focal lengths at minimum, often 4.7 to 5.9mm so this unit represents probably the shortest you can get. A consequence of maintaining acceptable zoom ratios no doubt.

Secondly is at night I find the IR washes out reflective objects making them unreadable, specifically license plates. While there are several IR settings and the long range performance is simply awesome (seriously, when the long range LEDs come on it looks like a massive square spotlight) it means that reading a plate at any distance is almost impossible. I did find however that you can set the D/N sensitivity to be higher such that the camera won't go into night mode at dark. The area it's mounted is street lit and is sufficient for the camera to have a clear and un-noisy picture without switching to IR. Come to think of it, there is virtually ZERO noise with this camera at night while it's still in day mode! That makes reading plates easier and if the camera senses a dark enough area it will activate the IR and go to night, then switch back when you move to an area that's sufficiently lit. Luckily this is just playing with settings and I suppose you can't expect too much from a value unit like this.

Lastly there are a few settings in the OSD like Smart IR that aren't mentioned in any manual, even on Hikvision's website. I know how Smart IR works in IP cameras but it behaves differently with this unit and I'm not sure if it's an abandoned feature, not working properly, or I'm setting it up wrong. By default it's set to zero and it can go up to five. Any of the settings from 1-5 basically kill the picture completely and make it totally dark as if the IR is off, and I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. I was hoping this setting would help with the license plate issue but so far I can't get it to work right. If anyone has ideas I'd be grateful.

Overall setup was a breeze, works perfectly with the Hikvision DS-7200 series tribrid DVR. PTZ commands work UTC no problem as well as with the iVMS-4500 phone app (I'm having a blast using it with my Android and casting it to my 70" TV in the living room at home). Even though it's only 1.3MP the image resolution is excellent. Long range zoom is fabulous and can read license plates at 100+ meters, though is a bit wanting at minimum zoom which won't pick up a plate and is where I expect the 2.1MP unit that I have yet to install will shine. A worthwhile point to mention is that because this is HD-TVI this unit will transmit 1.3MP at a full 30 FPS, whereas the 2.1MP unit will only do 12 FPS at full resolution.

In conclusion this camera is a fantastic deal for anyone wanting a PTZ for their HD-TVI network and I recommend it wholeheartedly.

 

[hiklicker]

Forgot to mention two things. First is, being that this was my first "real" PTZ install I wasn't familiar with just how much power these things need. I had tried to get away with one CAT5 about 150-200' long and twisting three pairs together for the power but the camera would only burp momentarily for its POST and then die, despite the fact my multimeter showed a perfectly adequate 26.4VAC at the end of the run. I pulled it off the CAT5 and ran 14/2 loomex instead and this was plenty. I wouldn't recommend anything less than 18 gauge, larger if you can afford it.

Second is that Hikvision's website for this camera mentions it has CVBS out as well as TVI, but this is not the case for this unit (TVI out only). Worth noting if you're expecting to use it for setup.

 

[super10brss]

Any update on this? I am interested in a "good" camera to install in my house and am attracted to the relative affordable cost of the monoprice cameras. I am looking at their 2.1MP Full HD 1080p TVI Security Camera (fixed dome). From above posts the monoprice cameras a rebranded Hikvision (which I assume are good cameras). Any thoughts on the monoprice DVR's or would it be better to look into the Hikvision DVR and monoprice cameras?

 

[nayr]

IP or go home.. nobody should be laying coaxial cables in 2017; TVI/CVI cameras are a stop gap for existing infrastructure thats too expensive to replace; if you have no existing analogue wires in place; dont be a dumbass and string cabling about thats already antiquated and obsolete.

 

[zero-degrees]

nobody should be laying coaxial cables in 2016

Or 2017 for that matter

Sorry - couldn't help it

 

[super10brss]

Fair enough... It is 2017 and seems the ip Cameras are the "way to go". I guess it is my cheap side coming out that the monoprice analogue cameras are a whooping $54 while the ip dome versions are $120+ sky is the limit. Any recommendations for better than sams club, but less expensive than counting hairs on some guys head 40 feet away in HD? The house my wife and I live in is two level. Kids downstairs, and we are upstairs. Wife wants to keep an eye on kids before bedtime and such. Her hand held wireless camera is getting old. It would be nice to have a real camera system.

 

[nayr]

Dahua 2MP Starlight Lineup

Dont install domes outside; you'll regret it.

 

[super10brss]

Nayr, Thanks for the replies! I followed your link and man you have really done some good work! Props for sure. Yea all the domes will be inside. I prefer the domes since they don't "look" so intrusive as "big brother" spying in on a bedroom. Wife owns a daycare that has cameras everywhere and she is actually the one pushing cameras in the house. I'm cool with them too I guess, since she and I will only be the ones looking at the video.

Shifting gears here. looks like in several of your videos (great by the way! props again) looks like your viewing your cameras off your laptop. Do you have a NVR? or have a dedicated computer setup? Seems I saw a post talking about a specific software that guys are using for their cameras??

 

[nayr]

for indoor use, this is the best camera you'll find for a reasonable cost: IPC-HDBW4231F-AS | Dahua Technology

I have a Dahua NVR

 

[hiklicker]

IP or go home.. nobody should be laying coaxial cables in 2017; TVI/CVI cameras are a stop gap for existing infrastructure thats too expensive to replace; if you have no existing analogue wires in place; dont be a dumbass and string cabling about thats already antiquated and obsolete.

Wow aren't you a real peach. I'll try my best to NOT sound like as much of a prick in my response.

While I agree with your cabling philosophy where did I ever say I was running coax? Ever heard of a balun? Sure TVI cameras don't have the same capability as IP but that's part of the point. Not everyone needs IP or even knows how to set up IP. For DIYers that aren't computer savvy they can connect TVI and it will just work. Far fewer (none?) security issues with TVI as well.

And apart from the ease of install TVI is about HALF the cost of IP cameras for the same resolution. Hik 2.1MP IP dome is about $130CAD my cost. TVI 2.1MP about $60. Not insignificant.

You don't like TVI? Cool, don't use it. But no need to sh*t on anyone's threads with your smug arrogance.

 

[fenderman]

Wow aren't you a real peach. I'll try my best to NOT sound like as much of a prick in my response.

While I agree with your cabling philosophy where did I ever say I was running coax? Ever heard of a balun? Sure TVI cameras don't have the same capability as IP but that's part of the point. Not everyone needs IP or even knows how to set up IP. For DIYers that aren't computer savvy they can connect TVI and it will just work. Far fewer (none?) security issues with TVI as well.

And apart from the ease of install TVI is about HALF the cost of IP cameras for the same resolution. Hik 2.1MP IP dome is about $130CAD my cost. TVI 2.1MP about $60. Not insignificant.

You don't like TVI? Cool, don't use it. But no need to sh*t on anyone's threads with your smug arrogance.

IP is JUST as plug and play as tvi...IF as you are required to do with TVI you homerun all cables to the NVR..
You misunderstand IP and network security if you think there are no issue or less issues with TVI, that is simply NOT true.

 

[hiklicker]

IP is JUST as plug and play as tvi...IF as you are required to do with TVI you homerun all cables to the NVR..
You misunderstand IP and network security if you think there are no issue or less issues with TVI, that is simply NOT true.

No, I almost NEVER homerun IP direct to the NVR. That defeats the entire purpose of IP in that they give you network flexibility. My IP cams get run to a PoE switch which is then run to the NVR so you can access each individual camera to make changes, adjustments, etc. as necessary.

Now please edify me on how I can remotely hack into a TVI camera. The CAMERA, not the DVR.