Motion Detection best practice.

Bluediamond

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Hello Everyone,

After finally spending about a week to finally get these cams configured to not consume so much CPU following the Wiki's here. I have a HUGE problem with false positives in motion detection anything set's these things off changes in lighting, lights refection from a car bouncing off other objects, when the sun is covered by a cloud and the sudden change in lighting that cause shadows sets these things off.

I want to tighten these camera's up a bit and wanted to know what some of you are using for these particular cameras or what some of the best practices are when it comes to Motion Detection.

HARDWARE:
x2 IPC-HDW5231R-ZE
X3 IPC-HDW4831EM-ASE
i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz with 8Gigs of RAM

Settings are the same for all cameras at the moment.
upload_2019-9-29_11-45-55.png

Any advice would be most appreciated.
 
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Rakin

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You can tweak object size and transparency and set up zones with rules so an object has to travel from one zone to the next. I don’t do zones with rules but I do have areas that are excluded like the highway and my neighbors driveway and such. All the false triggers were annoying at first but I found that it doesn’t take much time to skim through them. I also record 24x7 so it’s not making a difference on my storage either way. I feel that getting the settings for the motion detection in the camera itself might be more important if using an sd card for a backup. I eat through a 64GB sd card on some cameras pretty fast from false event triggers.


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spammenotinoz

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Constant record is the way to go, but if you don't want to go this way;
- Object Size (small as it will go)
- Contract (small as it will go)
- Make time (0.1, possibly 0.5 if you get a lot of false alarms)
- Don't use object tracking (it works, but can miss some triggers, so try without it first)
- Disable high-def and shadows
- use zones and hot spots (but don't actually use hotspots)
- algorithm use simple
- you don't really want to be highlighting motion (apart from testing, trying to eliminate false triggers)
Remember the aim is to record as much as you can ie: false triggers are way better than missing an event.
In Zone A (select everything, ie: any motion will be recorded)
In Zone B (highlight areas where you want to be notified, this smaller area will still record but you can set to only alert on this zone)

Then in alerts tab, select only Zone B (make sure any is ticked and not ALL Zones)
Then configure your alerts\notifications.

Note: You have Camera's digital input set as a trigger, which is good to help capture all events, but just note that it will trigger a lot of false recordings, this may be your problem. So if you are trying to test BI motion settings, best not to use this .

Anyway just my 2c, you really need to test and find what works best for you. This works quite well for me, with lots of shadows, leaves Hopefully use Camera's trigger input is your issue.

But remember, nothing wrong with recording a lot, you should really be recording all the time anyway.
Try Sentry if you want to cut down on alerts. I tried it, it was good just too expensive for my personal use.
 
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TL1096r

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I think zones are the only way to get rid of shadows and false reports.

I miss alerts and get false alerts. One day it should be better. I always felt that with all technology the same shadow should be picked up 100x in a row.
 

Bluediamond

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You can tweak object size and transparency and set up zones with rules so an object has to travel from one zone to the next. I don’t do zones with rules but I do have areas that are excluded like the highway and my neighbors driveway and such. All the false triggers were annoying at first but I found that it doesn’t take much time to skim through them. I also record 24x7 so it’s not making a difference on my storage either way. I feel that getting the settings for the motion detection in the camera itself might be more important if using an sd card for a backup. I eat through a 64GB sd card on some cameras pretty fast from false event triggers.


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I would love to record 24x7 but at x3 cameras at 4k and x2 2k I will fill up my 10TB drive in less than a month. But I am doing the best I can to fine tune out the false positives. The hardest ones are the Night time light glares from oncoming cars that sparks an event 100% of the time.
 

Bluediamond

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Constant record is the way to go, but if you don't want to go this way;
- Object Size (small as it will go)
- Contract (small as it will go)
- Make time (0.1, possibly 0.5 if you get a lot of false alarms)
- Don't use object tracking (it works, but can miss some triggers, so try without it first)
- Disable high-def and shadows
- use zones and hot spots (but don't actually use hotspots)
- algorithm use simple
- you don't really want to be highlighting motion (apart from testing, trying to eliminate false triggers)
Remember the aim is to record as much as you can ie: false triggers are way better than missing an event.
In Zone A (select everything, ie: any motion will be recorded)
In Zone B (highlight areas where you want to be notified, this smaller area will still record but you can set to only alert on this zone)

Then in alerts tab, select only Zone B (make sure any is ticked and not ALL Zones)
Then configure your alerts\notifications.

Note: You have Camera's digital input set as a trigger, which is good to help capture all events, but just note that it will trigger a lot of false recordings, this may be your problem. So if you are trying to test BI motion settings, best not to use this .

Anyway just my 2c, you really need to test and find what works best for you. This works quite well for me, with lots of shadows, leaves Hopefully use Camera's trigger input is your issue.

But remember, nothing wrong with recording a lot, you should really be recording all the time anyway.
Try Sentry if you want to cut down on alerts. I tried it, it was good just too expensive for my personal use.
Thanks for this info @spammenotinoz but I have a couple of questions,
What is the point of making the object and contrast setting so low won't I miss important triggers this low?
What would disabling High-Def and Shadows do? I thought these help with false positives.
 

spammenotinoz

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I think zones are the only way to get rid of shadows and false reports.

I miss alerts and get false alerts. One day it should be better. I always felt that with all technology the same shadow should be picked up 100x in a row.
Record Always
Thanks for this info @spammenotinoz but I have a couple of questions,
What is the point of making the object and contrast setting so low won't I miss important triggers this low?
What would disabling High-Def and Shadows do? I thought these help with false positives.
Sorry I meant, I set them to MAX, move the sliders move of the way to the left. I have slightly different settings depending on the CAM and the Scene.
Your make time is very high.

But you have to find what works for you.
With 4k and 2k cameras I find there is no need to enable the High-Def setting, but I need this on lower res cameras to detect small objects.
Shadows works for some people, I have never had success with it.

Under objects there is a scene change setting (I use this at day, but never night). As someone approaching with a torch triggers it and you won't get the recording.
Object and Zone Crossings work well, but you will be pissed if you ever miss an event.

10 TB is a lot of space, especially if you use H.265 (even H.264+) and use a sensible frame rate say 15fps.
In my opinion only (I am not an expert), but you are better off recording more at 15fps than half at 30fps and if that isn't enough forking out for a second 10 TB drive.

You have already spent a decent amount, do you really want to miss an event? Or is your setup more for fun and a deterrent?

Something else to consider;
Consider setting up secondary channels for each CAM (12\15fps and much lower quality) and have these on constant record. Will SFA disk space and can come in handy to show what you missed.
 

Rakin

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I would love to record 24x7 but at x3 cameras at 4k and x2 2k I will fill up my 10TB drive in less than a month. But I am doing the best I can to fine tune out the false positives. The hardest ones are the Night time light glares from oncoming cars that sparks an event 100% of the time.
Yeah all depending on what your frame rate, key frame and max bit rate is set at. Plus how many days worth do you really need? I was shooting for a month worth when I first set mine up. Then I started to tweak things for better quality and was running out in 10 days. I got a 10TB drive and I’m back to a months worth but I’m going to add cameras also. During the time I was only keep 10 days of storage at a time I realized that was enough. I was never going to be away for that long. I think a month is great and all but I’m actuality recording 24/7 and never missing a thing and having it stored for 2 weeks or so is a lot better. Unless there is a specific reason you must store all clips for a month I think it’s probably just a comfort thing. If you didn’t go back and look at something after 2 weeks what makes you think you would look at it after 4?


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TL1096r

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Isn't motion clips stored on different area at 1gb? Recording 24/7 seems like the best bet. Unless you want to keep 'motion' for more than a month. I have so many false alarms and people not getting picked up. I am not sure why that I could never trust record when triggered.
 

spammenotinoz

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Isn't motion clips stored on different area at 1gb? Recording 24/7 seems like the best bet. Unless you want to keep 'motion' for more than a month. I have so many false alarms and people not getting picked up. I am not sure why that I could never trust record when triggered.
You may be thinking of high-resolution alerts.
Bit of a mindset change, nothing wrong with false alerts. Use Sentry to cut-down on those, if that is really your intention.
As I said earlier, you can have BI "RECORD" on any movement in say zone a, but only alert if motion is detected in key areas, eg: zone b. (If you make the zone b area a lot smaller, eg: right near your house)
BI will still record on any car driving past ect.. but you just get alerted \ iOS notification on a subset of the motion. (ie: I don't have trees selected in Zone B, or their shadow areas), just right up close.
 

aristobrat

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I would love to record 24x7 but...
Don't forget that the risk with not recording 24x7 is that motion detection isn't 100% reliable so your risk losing video. More than a few of us started out with same plan as you and switched to 24x7 recording after an important incident did NOT record because it didn't trigger motion detection (for whatever reason).

I've got six 2MP, one 4MP, one 6MP, and one 8MP cameras recording full-time (15FPS, VBR) on 8TB of disk and get about two weeks out of recording full-time. It's pretty rare I have go back more than a day or two.
 
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Bluediamond

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Ok so I set three of the cameras I wanted on 24/7 and left the others On Motion only. I am also testing out the TRIAL of Sentry AI to see if it greatly improves the false detection's.
 

Bluediamond

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Ok, so today i came to check the alerts and none of them are showing up in folders after setting up sentry however since I am not recording 24/7 the alerts still show the icons on the recorded feed. Did I set something up incorrectly?

upload_2019-10-2_18-56-43.png
upload_2019-10-2_18-57-20.png
upload_2019-10-2_18-58-17.png

The problem is I am having a rough time understanding the syntax of this thing all I want it to do is Record the new stuff to the new folder after it reaches x amount of days put it in the stored folder and once its been in the stored folder for x amount of days delete.

But as of right now I don't have any clips or Alerts listed on the viewer at all.
upload_2019-10-2_19-3-45.png

But they do show up on the recorded feed.
upload_2019-10-2_19-4-34.png

I am a total beginner with this stuff guys any help would be greatly appreciated. Links to articles are great too, as reading is fundamental.
 

spammenotinoz

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Ok, so today i came to check the alerts and none of them are showing up in folders after setting up sentry however since I am not recording 24/7 the alerts still show the icons on the recorded feed. Did I set something up incorrectly?

View attachment 48378
View attachment 48379
View attachment 48380

The problem is I am having a rough time understanding the syntax of this thing all I want it to do is Record the new stuff to the new folder after it reaches x amount of days put it in the stored folder and once its been in the stored folder for x amount of days delete.

But as of right now I don't have any clips or Alerts listed on the viewer at all.
View attachment 48381

But they do show up on the recorded feed.
View attachment 48382

I am a total beginner with this stuff guys any help would be greatly appreciated. Links to articles are great too, as reading is fundamental.
I am not in front of MY BI machine, but it looks like you have a DATE selected on the alerts. See how the calendar is green, suggest clicking on it.
I found Sentry just flagged alerts, didn't remove them.
 

anijet

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On your storage issue the first thing is stored needs to be deleted not moved to stored.

Edit - Why use days? Just use available drive space and use all available space until it's full.
 
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Bluediamond

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On your storage issue the first thing is stored needs to be deleted not moved to stored.

Edit - Why use days? Just use available drive space and use all available space until it's full.
Can you elaborate on this a bit more how would I go about doing this the 10TB drive is letter e: how does BI know where to go if I have not pointed it there.

How would I properly configure Alerts,Stored and New this thing confusing a bit.
 

Bluediamond

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I am not in front of MY BI machine, but it looks like you have a DATE selected on the alerts. See how the calendar is green, suggest clicking on it.
I found Sentry just flagged alerts, didn't remove them.
The Clock means "Go To Now" I don't think has any control on the Alerts not showing up in the viewer though.
 

anijet

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Can you elaborate on this a bit more how would I go about doing this the 10TB drive is letter e: how does BI know where to go if I have not pointed it there.

How would I properly configure Alerts,Stored and New this thing confusing a bit.
On your stored page uncheck Move to and check delete.

Uncheck Limit Clip Age on all pages.
 

Bluediamond

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On your stored page uncheck Move to and check delete.

Uncheck Limit Clip Age on all pages.
What would be a good limit size for a 10TB drive to my understanding then when it reached this limit it will then delete correct?
 

anijet

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9000 and wait until it starts to delete clips, then in Blue Iris Status check clip storage for allocation info.
 
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