Multiple Cat5 Outside Cables how to run inside help

[Nyghthawk]

So a bit of a lurker, and new time buyer of the Costco Lorex Kit.

I have some questions about how best to run this.

First thought

1) Attic, I am pretty sure I can get all cables to the attic, but I don't have any "AC Power" there, so I cannot plug into the PoE ethernet. So you say, Run the cables to the attic then run all 6-8+ network cables DOWN into some other room. Problem: I have a two story house, attic above the Bedrooms, no attic over the "living" room that has most the network, nor the computer room that has the rest.

So I kind of scratched that IDEA

2) Run all cables to the attached garage, not too difficult. Though the cameras that are on the "right" side will be either very long to run along the frame of the house, or up to the attic and through the attic to the other side and then down. Slight problem. Bigger problem: Have only 1-2 outlets in the garage to plug into, no other computer/networking stuff is in the garage. Probably be able to drill a "square" size hole in the garage and be able to go through both drywalls to have direct access to the networking stuff, but not sure if I run the 8+ cables through the wall (more on this later) or put the PoE switch in the garage somewhere somehow, and then run just one cable to the router/switch. If I run the 8 cables THROUGH the wall, what is the best way to do that without making the hole HUGE? (more on this later).

3) This is what I wanted to do, but when I came to the end I ended up with a problem that I wanted to ask here.
Run all cables 8+ to the LEFT side of the house. Either along the rafters/roof, or up through the attic and then down. This will terminate on the side of the house near the computer room that I can drill through the OUTSIDE wall and connect to the PoE/Switch. Here is the "same" problem as above. I will need to run 8+ network cables through this "hole". I was thinking, put a junction box on the "outside" with the PoE inside and run the ONE network cable and the ONE power cable through a "small ish" hole.

OR (i am not sure how these work) put a "keystone" connector on the outside where the cables terminate and then 8 more cables on the inside to the PoE (though I don't know how this would make the whole any SMALLER).

Which leads me to ANOTHER question. How big of a conduit do I need or would I need to probably at one point have all 6-8 ethernet cables in ONE conduit, and do I crimp the cables BEFORE pulling them, or After (since I want so many in one?)

Any other tips on how to run this?

 

[mat200]

So a bit of a lurker, and new time buyer of the Costco Lorex Kit.

I have some questions about how best to run this.

First thought

1) Attic, I am pretty sure I can get all cables to the attic, but I don't have any "AC Power" there, so I cannot plug into the PoE ethernet. So you say, Run the cables to the attic then run all 6-8+ network cables DOWN into some other room. Problem: I have a two story house, attic above the Bedrooms, no attic over the "living" room that has most the network, nor the computer room that has the rest.

So I kind of scratched that IDEA

2) Run all cables to the attached garage, not too difficult. Though the cameras that are on the "right" side will be either very long to run along the frame of the house, or up to the attic and through the attic to the other side and then down. Slight problem. Bigger problem: Have only 1-2 outlets in the garage to plug into, no other computer/networking stuff is in the garage. Probably be able to drill a "square" size hole in the garage and be able to go through both drywalls to have direct access to the networking stuff, but not sure if I run the 8+ cables through the wall (more on this later) or put the PoE switch in the garage somewhere somehow, and then run just one cable to the router/switch. If I run the 8 cables THROUGH the wall, what is the best way to do that without making the hole HUGE? (more on this later).

3) This is what I wanted to do, but when I came to the end I ended up with a problem that I wanted to ask here.
Run all cables 8+ to the LEFT side of the house. Either along the rafters/roof, or up through the attic and then down. This will terminate on the side of the house near the computer room that I can drill through the OUTSIDE wall and connect to the PoE/Switch. Here is the "same" problem as above. I will need to run 8+ network cables through this "hole". I was thinking, put a junction box on the "outside" with the PoE inside and run the ONE network cable and the ONE power cable through a "small ish" hole.

OR (i am not sure how these work) put a "keystone" connector on the outside where the cables terminate and then 8 more cables on the inside to the PoE (though I don't know how this would make the whole any SMALLER).

Which leads me to ANOTHER question. How big of a conduit do I need or would I need to probably at one point have all 6-8 ethernet cables in ONE conduit, and do I crimp the cables BEFORE pulling them, or After (since I want so many in one?)

Any other tips on how to run this?

Hi Nyghthawk

Option #1 is still possible, don't scratch off too quickly. If you have a closet that makes a good location to route a conduit or cable bundle downstairs.

Also, there sometimes are hollow spaces you can run cabling and conduits down. I found one once next to the stairs.

Remember to use quality bulk cable and not the cables included in the kit, and do see what others are doing.

 

[Nyghthawk]

One of the thoughts with 1) is running it alongside the ac duct that is literally above the networking stuff.

However the question follows:
Run 8+ networking cables down? Through one hole? Wouldn’t the hole have to be 2-3 inches big? I would then be going through at least 6-8 fire beams the horizontal beams between the studs. That doesn’t sound fun in any way nor the materials needed to make sure I don’t hit anything else or make anything too structurally weak. I will look into a bit more.

Also. Using outdoor rated cable from monoprice.

 

[mat200]

One of the thoughts with 1) is running it alongside the ac duct that is literally above the networking stuff.

However the question follows:
Run 8+ networking cables down? Through one hole? Wouldn’t the hole have to be 2-3 inches big? I would then be going through at least 6-8 fire beams the horizontal beams between the studs. That doesn’t sound fun in any way nor the materials needed to make sure I don’t hit anything else or make anything too structurally weak. I will look into a bit more.

Also. Using outdoor rated cable from monoprice.

Hi Nyght,

Where do you plan to mount the cameras?

 

[Nyghthawk]

All on the outside. Corners, front, sides.

So I am trying to find a way back INTO the house lol where I can run all the cables.

I just went through 8+ inches of 2x4s and saw there was at least 1 more shortly below that. So I guess if I use the attic (which is a lot more work IF possible. I would have to then make square cutouts near every firewall 2x4, drill a hole, continue with feeding the cable in the wall. Patch the squares, maybe 3+. Sand, orange peel blast the walls, then repaint x2 coats. And this is in the MAIN room that will be seen 24x7. I have patched walls/holes before, and if you walk by don't notice, but if you stop and look and stare, you will notice. And this wall is right behind the TV, so I do NOT want to go that route, plus I think there is a big 6x8 inch load bearing horizontal beam between the floors, so I would have to go through that, trying to avoid that too.

 

[mat200]

All on the outside. Corners, front, sides.

So I am trying to find a way back INTO the house lol where I can run all the cables.

I just went through 8+ inches of 2x4s and saw there was at least 1 more shortly below that. So I guess if I use the attic (which is a lot more work IF possible. I would have to then make square cutouts near every firewall 2x4, drill a hole, continue with feeding the cable in the wall. Patch the squares, maybe 3+. Sand, orange peel blast the walls, then repaint x2 coats. And this is in the MAIN room that will be seen 24x7. I have patched walls/holes before, and if you walk by don't notice, but if you stop and look and stare, you will notice. And this wall is right behind the TV, so I do NOT want to go that route, plus I think there is a big 6x8 inch load bearing horizontal beam between the floors, so I would have to go through that, trying to avoid that too.

Hi Nyght,

How high are you planning to mount these on the corners?

Indeed, knowing the framing and wood construction behind the drywall helps a lot. Use a stud finder to help.

I also had to go through a lot of what you're doing right now, and YES it is a quite a job. ( thus, try to pull extra cables while doing this, recommend N+1 and bulk cable as it is easier to use for pulls )

I would look at utilizing your attached garage as the key point for as much as possible as it will be easier to work there and the finishing of the drywall / patches there will require less detailed finishing for you.

Depending on the construction of your home, you maybe able to use the garage as an good place to start routing the cables to adjacent walls.

 

[Nyghthawk]

Corners would be first floor roof/awning so roughly 8-10 feet attached to the wood framing or under the awning to protect from sunglare.


After looking in the garage, I found a COAX cable that runs DIRECTLY to the networking little nook by the TV. I have my NAS here, my router, and 2 of the switches. I feel this is my "best" option.

Based on this, is metal conduit really needed for all the cabling? I understand thieves can come by and cut the cable, but wouldn't they have to get close enough to be ID'd before being able to cut the cable? Plus being 8-10 feet high, how would they cut it so easily? Second, if I do plan to run conduit (metal), would it be ok to just run it to "exposed" parts, but parts that are under the awning/roof, just run the outdoor cable so I can get a bit more bends/turns in the cabling?

The camera on the front corner by the door will run over the door, up to the awning, along the awning. I can then enter the garage on the "right side" where the second camera will be so two lines here. The third camera is on the other side of the garage (maybe?) and can make a hole here, or run it OVER the garage awning into the first hole on the other side. Moot point at this , as the 3rd camera will enter the garage and then run along the INSIDE of the garage to meet the other 2 cables. 4th camera on the back yard. I have a wooden patio ceiling lattice thing. could attach it to that. I have lights attached there, so blending in the ethernet would be no problem. This cable would run Down to the bottom of the house (I have a small lip) I can run the exposed cable there, along the LEFT side to a vent and enter the garage that way. Can then run arlong the FRONT of the garage or the REAR haven't thought that far yet. the 5th camera would be on the patio facing the OTHER camera as to get the SIDE of the house with the gate. Might get a LOT of false positives here as it faces the back sliding glass door that gets opened A LOT. 6th camera will be on the opposite of the wood patio facing the OTHER side of the house as there are a few windows/entry points there,. These three cameras essentially can follow the length of the other cameras so it would be 3 cables running the bottom of the house (or maybe in conduit since these are really easy to "cut' or even get hit by lawn mower trash cans, people walking, etc etc.

Now, do I run ALL 8 cables through the whole (like make a "box") so the 8 cables run into it and 8 cables come out the other end (would look kind of ugly but I am certain there is a way. Or I can make a "box" to put the PoE ethernet there and just run ONE cable back through the hole. (there is a hole already for the Coax. Or can I use something like this : https://www.amazon.com/ESYLink-AL304-Ethernet-Coax-Plate/dp/B0728FQLK5 so I can connect the ONE cable from the PoE to it, and the Coax, and have it be the single same hole.

 

[Mr_D]

8-10 feet is generally too high. Make a test rig (see mine: https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/my-test-rig-rev-2.28966) and see what a difference a foot or two makes in the perspective and facial capture.

 

[mat200]

Hi Nyght,

Hopefully a few others will pitch in.

Conduit vs exposed cable - due to the following video I would go w/conduit or in wall.
( can't find it right now, ... iirc youtube video thief rides a bike by and cuts the cables of the camera and then steals the camera )

Also, as this is an IP PoE setup you have numerous options to use IP PoE switches to make your life cabling easier.

Ideally the most reliable solution is to run one line from each camera to the main IP PoE switch and / or the NVR PoE ports.

While you are doing this DO consider running additional cat5e/cat6 cables for other networking needs / ports in the rooms you are passing by.

 

[Nyghthawk]

Haven’t seen the video.

But if he’s stealing the cameras. Yanking it off the wall and the mount. What good would the conduit do? There is always cable slack. Yank camera off. Cut cable slack? Or you say he cuts the cable to lose feed the. Yanks off. Well if he gets close enough to “cut” cable isn’t he ID’d already? And if he gets close enough to cut cable what’s the difference from yanking off at that point then cutting the slack pulled from the conduit.

I am running one cable from each camera. They will have their own PoE port on the switch. The PoE switch will then run to the router/hub. (Tested already) with just one camera. Since it’s gigabit I don’t think 6 cameras on one PoE switch will bottle neck it.

I am going to run two lines from the garage to the PoE switch just in case I want to run another PoE switch. Though that “wall run” is literally just through one dry wall and it’s directly on the other side.

As for running other cable.

I’m not going to ANY other room. I will show with pictures. Every cable entry point is garage. Garage to network room is a single wall. No drop. No wall running. No drilling.

I already have a cable from networking room to computer room run along the ceiling and wall casing.

Should I run two lines to each camera? Why if so? I just took pictures of the house and “view points” the cameras should get. Will upload after eating with some annotations.

 

[TonyR]

Can you use attic for all cables, homerun to a corner (or 2 corners) come down in the interior, exposed corner of a room to avoid all those horizontal fire-breaks in the wall, cover with cornerduct, like below?

The 1150 series can hold up to 15 CAT-5 cables (according to their specs). A 5 ft. piece is under $9 a stick, has inside and outside corners available, has several colors, is paintable with latex paint. @Frankenscript just put in some outdoors here.

 

[mat200]

Haven’t seen the video.

But if he’s stealing the cameras. Yanking it off the wall and the mount. What good would the conduit do? There is always cable slack. Yank camera off. Cut cable slack? Or you say he cuts the cable to lose feed the. Yanks off. Well if he gets close enough to “cut” cable isn’t he ID’d already? And if he gets close enough to cut cable what’s the difference from yanking off at that point then cutting the slack pulled from the conduit.
...

So the video I can not locate at this time shows:

Thief rides bicycle in alley pulling a trashcan during the day and drops it off by a fence within arm reach from the wall of the home which has a camera mounted, cat5e/6 or other cable surface mounted on the wall.

At night he returns, hops on the trashcan and clips the cat5e/cat6 cable and then it is assumed yanks the camera off the wall.

Lessons:
1) Conduit would make it significantly difficult to just cut the cable as it will be protected in the conduit.
2) Use longer screws / sturdy anchors to mount your cameras to the wall - I like to use 2 longer screws into the studs.
3) Use multiple cameras to cover critical areas so that if a camera is physically attacked you will have a good capture of the event.

I thought the video was posted here... though I can not find it at this time. Perhaps someone else will recall it.

 

[Nyghthawk]

Isn't 5-6 Feet, FUGLY? I mean wow, thats like right at my head? I think some would be at 7 foot at maxish. I am going to "dry" run EVERY camera. I have a 250foot cable. I am going to run it to the POE to EACH camera and test "fit" it at the height that I want and see what it looks like. PRIOR to mounting it.

So here are the images and RED = CAMERA. Yellow = HOLE, blue = CABLE/CONDUIT.

Here is the IVPM of what I want.

As you can see pretty hard to cover everything. I suspect I could add another camera later facing the back yard, to capture over the fence and get that last window, and I feel if someone was to come up from the neighbor to the right across the grass to my front door and use that little side area and hug the wall and look down and then jam the door in, or hop the fence and get to the ONE widow that isn't covered MIGHT be a possibility. Unless you have better placement. ideas.

IMGUR link if those do not work

 

[Mr_D]

Isn't 5-6 Feet, FUGLY? I mean wow, thats like right at my head? I think some would be at 7 foot at maxish.

5 feet is a good height for getting images of faces rather than tops of heads, especially if they're wearing a hat. This is usually recommended for a front door camera installation. 7 feet is a good general-purpose installation height. Most of mine will be 7-7.5' A couple may be 8-8.5' but they'll be capturing side yards and won't be angled down too severely.

 

[Nyghthawk]

So just at the top of the door frame then like I have in the picture? or still too high?

 

[mat200]

So just at the top of the door frame then like I have in the picture? or still too high?

Hi Nyght

imho yes, too high for the front door.

Remember to test the locations before pulling cat5e/cat6 cable, have a friend wear a baseball cap and hoodie and walk around your home and see if you can get a good facial ID image.

Example test rig:
My test rig: rev.2

 

[Nyghthawk]

I was just going to "industrial" velcro it to the area that I want it to so its EXACTLY how it will look, run the 250 foot cable through the front door or window or whatever, and test all the spots if it looks good BEFORE running the cable.

NEXT question, can I build the ethernet cables (clamp) them PRIOR to running them through the conduit or is it best to run it through the conduit and THEN crimp the ends (two reasons)
1) what if the crimp is bad (i have a tester, but I mean just doesn't work? does that ever happen and I just pull ANOTHER 200+ feet of cable (ie, kinked too much and broke)
2) i was thinking UNcrimped so I can fit MORE cable in each conduit rather than a big bulky head on it.

Made my first cable this AM, made it faster than I thought. I had tried to do it when younger and failed 100% of the time. This time I just happened to switch ONE of the pairs, so a second try. Took maybe 10 minutes. Although I had a DESK to do it at, and if I am doing this in the FIELD (outside) I am afraid that it won't work as well for me, lol!

 

[Mr_D]

Definitely terminate the cables after running them through the conduit. Yes, definitely get some practice before you're doing it up a ladder. Some testers will only test simple continuity and will not detect split pairs. The cable will pass the test, but not function, especially at longer distances.