n0ob here, and i do mean n3wb. no cams, been looking for years, and nothing. HELP!
n008 here
- Thread starter jodo
- Start date
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 15,136
- 25,591
Welcome @jodo
Start by looking at the cliff notes ..
A few of the regulars should pop in here and post some good notes and references to check out
Welcome
Stick around a heck of a lot of information here for the price of looking!
Flintstone61
Known around here
sebastiantombs
Known around here
Start out by looking in the WiKi in the blue bar at the top of the page. There's a ton of very useful information in there and it needs to be viewed on a computer, not a phone or tablet. The Cliff Notes will be of particular interest although the camera models listed there are a generation old at this point. The best way to determine what kind of camera you need in each location and where each location should really be is to buy one varifocal camera first and set up a test stand for it that can be easily moved around. Test using that, viewing using the web interface of the camera, during the day and at night. Have someone walk around behaving like a miscreant and see if you can identify them. There is also information for choosing hardware and securing the system along with a whole bunch of other good stuff.
Don't chase megapixels unless you have a really BIG budget. Chase sensor size and bigger is better. To confuse you more sensor sizes are listed in fractions so do the basic math to be sure, 1/2.7 is bigger than 1/2.8 or 1/3. General rule of thumb is that a 4MP camera will easily outperform an 8MP camera when they both have the same sensor size. Reason being that there are twice as many pixels in the 8MP versus the 4MP. This results in only half the available light getting to each pixel in an 8MP that a pixel in the 4MP "sees".
A dedicated PC doesn't need to be either expensive to purchase or to run. A used business class machine can be had from eBay and various other sources. The advances made in Blue Iris make it easily possible to run a fairly large system on relatively inexpensive hardware which also makes power consumption low, as in under 50 watts in many cases. The biggest expenses turn out to be hard drives for storing video and a PoE switch to power the cameras and, of course, the cameras themselves.
The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-
Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.
Quick guide -
The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.
720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)
Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.
Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.
Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.
Compiled by mat200 -
Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"
Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...
Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.
Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Keep in mind that it may take two cameras, or more, to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.
The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.
Review - 8MP 1/1.2" sensor full color camera
Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera
Intro I’m excited to be doing another Worlds First Review. this time as I mentioned in the full color thread, I’ve been testing the new Dahua full color 4K camera. This was provided courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY for a fair, honest, no holds barred, unbiased review. I’ll attempt to answer any and...
2021 Full Color 2.0 Has a Fantastic New Dual Lens Camera
Hey guys The full color 2.0 has been released. Most cams I already posted here. Like: IPC-Color4K-X Bullet 4MP Motorized Full color. Today I bring a secret model, 1st release for the Dual-Lens Full color model in the world. Dual-lens Camera( Sample at Early Sep ) Ø Dual light fusion...
5442 Reviews
Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret
Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)
IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...
Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...
Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret
Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+
Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $160 Link to camera...
Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)
Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...
Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera
Review: OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Pro AI Starlight Full-color Fixed Bullet
Many thanks once again to Andy @EMPIRETECANDY we have for testing the OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Starlight+ Full Color bullet. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a fixed 3.6mm bullet (Pro AI) series with the 1/1.8” sensor. It has no built in...
2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera
Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
Again courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY EmpireTech Andy we have a new cam to look over. Its a new model in Dahua's new Lite H265 Series of cam's. Available for purchase here: Aliexpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and more Price is approx...
3241T-ZAS Review
Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...
Less expensive models -
Budget Dahua Cams or china alternatives under $100?
Well here we go. I dont see anywhere more approriate to discuss this. Ive been messing around with putting together a cctv system for close to 3 years now. Ive bought everything i needed and also bought 2 cheap cams from a third party seller on walmart. Those cams cost me a grand total of $50...
VPN Information Thread
VPN Primer for Noobs
The internet is a force of nature; no video surveillance system made was designed to be exposed to those forces.. NEVER FORWARD PORTS to your NVR or Cameras, doing such things not only exposes you to severe security problems, but everyone else on the internet too.. Hackers dont want your video...
Hi, and thanks gwminor48, sebastiantombs, oldtimer and flintstone61. Sebastion's nice summary really helps a lot, as do the ref's to cliff's notes and wiki. Got my work cut out for me just to try to absorb all the info here, wow.
Bearing in mind Rule #1 - that "Cameras multiply like rabbits", for now, I'm looking at probably 5 or 6 cams. I'm pretty sure I want POE PTZ cams, with no wireless or wifi, whichever it's called. I don't want my images in the cloud, I'm too concerned about hacks. I'd like to feed images or vids, that is, into my TV, in front of which I spend a lot of time. But I'd also like a few monitors around. I have yet to get any smart phones because they're just too invasive privacy-wise, I think. I have some older phones, a win8 phone and an old, old android, ZTE. I got the things free, some years ago and never reg'ed an account for them. I've often wondered if I could use bluetooth (and I've read that bluetooth is also easily hackable) to view and control my monitors without having to be online. My TV is a samsung, but I've disabled all smart functions, therefore it's streaming is disabled. No netflix/hulu/penguin for me. I really want total control of this system, but wow, which cams to buy, of the ... what, thousands? out there? I think your board's going to help a bunch with this, too.
I want to put a couple cams inside the garage, pointed out the door's upper windows to the driveway. They can be fixed rather than PTZ although Z would be needed. I want everything concealed. But wow, what, put birdhouses on poles all over a barren yard, flat, no trees, just grass and pavement. I've a wall that I cannot see over, no windows in front of the house, to speak of. I need a window to view the darn front street, don't I. I mean who doesn't? This house is so weird, why'd I ever move, I often wonder. I suppose the other cams might need to be PTZ, but then concealment is a hella issue. One cam needs to be in the porch/entry, one on the south side, one on east, and probably one on the north. Those would all need PTZ capability.
I DUNNO, where I'm going here, or what I'm doing. This is all pretty complex stuff I'm trying to figure out. I just don't think I can find any installers out there (there do not seem to be very many) who'll do this the way I want it done. The house soffit has holes drilled for mounts and wiring, with wire dangling, in front, back and sides where something was mounted before we moved in. Also there are BNC type connector wires hanging down in one room's closet and another cable, etc., connection box in the entry closet. If those wires need to be replaced they should be easy to use to pull new CAT6 cable, wow, I dunno.
I just dunno! I'll try to learn as much as I can, and I thank you all for your willingness to help inform the ignorant. Thanks.
Bearing in mind Rule #1 - that "Cameras multiply like rabbits", for now, I'm looking at probably 5 or 6 cams. I'm pretty sure I want POE PTZ cams, with no wireless or wifi, whichever it's called. I don't want my images in the cloud, I'm too concerned about hacks. I'd like to feed images or vids, that is, into my TV, in front of which I spend a lot of time. But I'd also like a few monitors around. I have yet to get any smart phones because they're just too invasive privacy-wise, I think. I have some older phones, a win8 phone and an old, old android, ZTE. I got the things free, some years ago and never reg'ed an account for them. I've often wondered if I could use bluetooth (and I've read that bluetooth is also easily hackable) to view and control my monitors without having to be online. My TV is a samsung, but I've disabled all smart functions, therefore it's streaming is disabled. No netflix/hulu/penguin for me. I really want total control of this system, but wow, which cams to buy, of the ... what, thousands? out there? I think your board's going to help a bunch with this, too.
I want to put a couple cams inside the garage, pointed out the door's upper windows to the driveway. They can be fixed rather than PTZ although Z would be needed. I want everything concealed. But wow, what, put birdhouses on poles all over a barren yard, flat, no trees, just grass and pavement. I've a wall that I cannot see over, no windows in front of the house, to speak of. I need a window to view the darn front street, don't I. I mean who doesn't? This house is so weird, why'd I ever move, I often wonder. I suppose the other cams might need to be PTZ, but then concealment is a hella issue. One cam needs to be in the porch/entry, one on the south side, one on east, and probably one on the north. Those would all need PTZ capability.
I DUNNO, where I'm going here, or what I'm doing. This is all pretty complex stuff I'm trying to figure out. I just don't think I can find any installers out there (there do not seem to be very many) who'll do this the way I want it done. The house soffit has holes drilled for mounts and wiring, with wire dangling, in front, back and sides where something was mounted before we moved in. Also there are BNC type connector wires hanging down in one room's closet and another cable, etc., connection box in the entry closet. If those wires need to be replaced they should be easy to use to pull new CAT6 cable, wow, I dunno.
I just dunno! I'll try to learn as much as I can, and I thank you all for your willingness to help inform the ignorant. Thanks.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
Mounting cameras behind glass is problematic for night video Unless special steps are taken to prevent reflecting the IR of the camera, or you use sufficient auxiliary IR outside and shut off the IR in the cameras, you're going to be blind at night from reflections.
PTZ is nice without a doubt, but somehow they are always looking in the wrong direction at the wrong time. Then there's the problem of cost and size for a truly capable PTZ. The under $200 class are all, basically, junk for a variety of reasons. A good entry level, pro-sumer grade, is in the $300-$400 range and they go up pretty quickly from there to the $1000 range.
The smart thing to do is to buy one decent varifocal, like an IPC5442T-ZE turret or an IPC5442E-ZE for a bullet, and set up a test rig to check out each location you think you want a camera in. You can use a 5 gallon pail full of rocks or sand with a 2x4-8 in it to mount the camera and a long, pre-made, CAT cable to hook it up and move it around. The varifocal will let you determine the focal lengths you need, there's a conversion calculator in the Wiki.
PTZ is nice without a doubt, but somehow they are always looking in the wrong direction at the wrong time. Then there's the problem of cost and size for a truly capable PTZ. The under $200 class are all, basically, junk for a variety of reasons. A good entry level, pro-sumer grade, is in the $300-$400 range and they go up pretty quickly from there to the $1000 range.
The smart thing to do is to buy one decent varifocal, like an IPC5442T-ZE turret or an IPC5442E-ZE for a bullet, and set up a test rig to check out each location you think you want a camera in. You can use a 5 gallon pail full of rocks or sand with a 2x4-8 in it to mount the camera and a long, pre-made, CAT cable to hook it up and move it around. The varifocal will let you determine the focal lengths you need, there's a conversion calculator in the Wiki.
Thanks again. I'd read that. I tested using a Canon vid cam, but it was during daytime. I just pointed it out the window and shot test vid. Looked fine so far. But night time hasn't been tested. I'd read that lots of times just UV light reflection can mar the image. I thought about using regular UV lights on my garage wall, but best probably would be your solution using
Also, you're probably right about the cheaper cams. The most expensive I've looked at were around the 500 dollar range. Amazon keeps sending me emails of ads for Sunba's and other odd brands for about 200 to 450. Also you're probably right about the size of them. Some of them have auto tracking, and reviews state that most don't really auto track well or they'll be slow to refocus or send the video. I have no idea what to do about this. And another problem as I mentioned is concealment.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
The light the cameras see at night is not UV, it's infrared in the 850nm range. Glass is like a mirror at that wave length.
By UV, I meant during daylight, since I had said I only tried the Canon cam in daylight but not at night time.
Though I am going to guess that it will work to some degree if there are outside lights that do not glare on
the glass at night time.
Though I am going to guess that it will work to some degree if there are outside lights that do not glare on
the glass at night time.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
It'll take a lot of white light at night through glass to be effective and glare/reflection can still be a problem.