Need Expert Help, Please!

[Dr. J.]

Hello all.

Completely new to security cameras. I'm hoping if I outline my current surveillance needs, that someone may be able to guide me in the right direction.

I need an Outdoor security camera that will be installed in a home that I rent out to tenants. Because I rent these 2 properties out, I can't have the camera connected to the tenants Wifi, or internet, nor can I keep a DVR or hard drive at the property. I basically need 1 outdoor camera that points towards the front of the property and all I need it for is to be able to REMOTELY see the vehicles parked on the property, to see an installed rent drop box we have on the side of the house and to see those that approach the front door.

What camera can I buy that doesn't depend on a local Wifi connection or DVR/HDD at the rental property itself, and that I can REMOTELY monitor and playback recorded surveillance video via either a mobile app, cloud service, etc.?

Sorry for the long-winded explanation and for all the newbie questions. Thanks in advance for your guidance.

 

[Kawboy12R]

I'd become close personal friends with the folks across the street and ask them to host it for a hopefully small fee. It's either that or a fairly obvious home-made solar and battery self contained unit that's got a router and USB internet stick plugged into it. That'd stick out like a sore thumb out front, although I suppose you could put the main unit out back and run a wire to the camera in a convenient spot.

 

[Dr. J.]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm hoping maybe others could offer a few more suggestions, as I wouldn't be interested in troubling any of my neighbors. I'm sure this has been done before, as I am certain I am not the only property owner that would like to remotely monitor other properties. I do have free wifi at that particular property, but since I am new to all of this, I am not certain how reliable that will always be if the internet connection drops. Additionally, I'm a total newbie, so I have no idea what you mean by "getting someone to host" or "self contained unit that has a router and usb stick". What would that be used for? I have access to power at the property, so I don't think I need a solar or battery powered unit.

P.S. By the way, what I mean by I have free Wifi at that particular property is that I have Comcast, and I have an Xfinity wifi user/pw that gives me access to the public Xfinity wifi network in the area. However, I don't have physical router at the property though

 

[Kawboy12R]

Ok, if you have power and wifi then you're fine. Wifi isn't a great choice but if hardwired isn't an option then it's all you've got. The self-contained unit I was talking about would have been a weatherproof box that would have housed the router battery and wires for the system while the camera and solar panel to charge the battery would be outside up a pole or something.

You will have to pick a location for your camera that you can get power to and will have a decent view of the places that you want to monitor. You will also have to decide what kind of quality you will settle for as far as identification goes. Plug the distances into ipvm.com / calculator and see what kind of lens length you would need for maybe a 2-megapixel camera.

You would probably appreciate not having to sift through hours of footage wondering if somebody put something in the dropbox so consider camera with real alarm input if you're able to run a wire with a contact switch into the Dropbox. That way whenever it is opened the camera will get an alarm and feed it to you. Automation and quality like this though may be more than you are willing to get into to learn. Just about any Wi-Fi outdoor camera will cover the absolute basics that you want though unless you are willing to put the time in to learn how to set up more advanced solutions. $200 or so in parts will get you a Dahua bullet cam with proper alarm inputs, a Ubiquiti wifi radio for it to connect to your wifi source, and a wired contact switch for the dropbox so you know exactly when someone opens it. There's a bit of a learning curve for the higher end wireless gear and cams with alarm inputs and setting up their remote notifications though.

Try plugging in "outdoor Wi-Fi Amcrest" into Amazon and see what comes up. There are better solutions than that but there's a learning curve. With those you just make sure they are connected to Wi-Fi and you hope the data cap will cover 24-hour streaming to your recording solution.

Or possibly a camera with a big SD card installed that you could use to save the video and you could use the camera software viewing solution to scroll back through and manually look for what you're looking for. Checking for cars and parties etc is the easy part. Not wasting lots of time looking to see if somebody stuck something into the dropbox in the last few days is the hard part. Outdoor video based motion notifications are notoriously full of false positives.

 

[Dr. J.]

Well, it seems we are getting closer in terms of solutions.

So ok, say I use the Wifi network in the neighborhood, then all I am looking for is a camera that will be able to connect to this wifi network, correct? But how, is the question, since I have no router? All i have is the user/pw to the neighborhood network. Also, what would i search for online, since every time i put in "wifi security camera" it assumes i want a wireless connection, as opposed to a wired/powered connection. Additionally, how do i monitor the video playback for this camera if I do decide to link it to the neighborhood wifi? Would this camera come with a cloud service for playback or what?

On the side of the SD camera, couple of questions... would all sd cameras come with software that needs to be installed to your computer for playback or viewing, or can this video simply be seen from any browser on your mobile or mobile app? Also, does the SD camera require linking to the neighborhood wifi network? And do i need to take out the SD card to watch playback or can i access this video playback at anytime?

Sorry for such newb questions, this is a learning process for me. Thanks again for all of your help thus far.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Good question about the Wi-Fi. I was thinking it was "friendly" Wi-Fi set up normally with access to the router first. I've never set up something like a Wi-Fi camera to public Wi-Fi that I didn't have wired access to first. That would be a question best put to the folks that supply the public Wi-Fi. most cameras with an SD card in them can access the recordings via the web interface. That requires being able to log into the camera remotely though so that is generally done with port forwarding or a VPN. I don't use cloud services for cameras so I will tap out on what they are capable of. Hooking a cam up directly to public Wi-Fi is outside my experience . Interesting problem though.

 

[nayr]

High End Game Camera? Runs off batteries, has motion sensor.. you just need something to physically secure it to.. can even get em that run on cellular networks.

Some guys here have projects for 3g enabled cameras in a project box; you can DIY these cheaper.

 

[Dr. J.]

So does anyone know how I can get a security camera to work by being connected to public WiFi?

It seems that by the replies, there is no way to connect a security camera and watch the playback without Internet, is this correct?

 

[nayr]

putting a surveillance camera on public wifi is a horrible idea; I'd ban your ass off my public wifi in a heartbeat if I caught such nonsence.

 

[zero-degrees]

So does anyone know how I can get a security camera to work by being connected to public WiFi?

It seems that by the replies, there is no way to connect a security camera and watch the playback without Internet, is this correct?

Not remotely

Option 1: Get a camera with a big ass SD card and plan to stop by once a week to swap the cards. Take the old card home, connect it to your computer and review the footage.

Option 2: Invest in a cellular setup - typically used on remote locations or job sites. Full system will run $1,000 - $1,500 for a one camera and all hardware setup - but this will let you monitor remotely and live. The other option is to rent one of these setups, this varies $150-$300 ish per month on average.

 

[nayr]

check out this thread: 4G LTE setup

 

[zebrock]

There is no way to use public wifi for your camera to view remotely. You'll need access to the router to configure port forwarding and such so that wont work for you. Best bet is game camera or a 4g setup which will require a monthly fee. Is there no way to have a separate modem and router on the property than what your tenants will be using? Will of course require a monthly fee but you'll be able to set it up normally with whatever cameras and nvr you want.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using Tapatalk

 

[tangent]

I've seen rental properties where there was a locked closet where the owner stored some stuff. And one that really crossed the line, the owner kept their stuff in about half of the kitchen and put locks on the cabinets.

On the lock box, an alternative is to just be a little flexible about the date the rent check is due and rely on the USPS. Rent is due on the 1st with a grace period through the 5th works well. You could also rig up contact switch to something like a Particle Electron. You could even hook sensors to the front & back door and a temp sensor. That would alert you if somebody turn off the heat / it broke and possibly if somebody was having a party (not that that would be violation of the lease necessarily) in addition to opening the rent box.

Another direction you could go would be internet is included in the rent. You pay comcast, wire up the house with a few networking jacks, and put some networking hardware in a locked cabinet (including an nvr you review if there's an incident) with a simple power reset mechanism rigged up.

Public wifi like xfinity often has a captive portal and requires periodic re-authentication. It's not suitable for a camera. As for cellular, it's a question of how much you want to pay per month / how conservative you manage to be with bandwidth.

 

[Kawboy12R]

I know one landlord who keeps a washer and dryer in an attached building so he can do his laundry on his tenant's power bill. He's insanely cheap.

 

[tangent]

If I'm ever a landlord, I'd probably work something along the lines of "All smoke detectors on premises have tamper alarms that will immediately notify the owner, tampering with a smoke detector will result in the termination of your lease and loss of security deposit" into the lease

 

[Dr. J.]

putting a surveillance camera on public wifi is a horrible idea; I'd ban your ass off my public wifi in a heartbeat if I caught such nonsence.

Pardon my ignorance, nayr, but why are your panties all up in a bunch over linking your camera to Internet access that is essentially yours to use? Perhaps it's my lack of experience with all of this, so am I missing something? I had Comcast on that property that I own, my neighbor who is also a friend has Comcast, and the tenant I am renting to, also happens to have Comcast. Because we all have Comcast, we are able to use Xfinity's WiFi Hotspot to connect to the Internet. So what is so terrible and nonsensical about this, if I needed Internet access (that I pay for) but yet don't have a physical router that I could use at said property?

 

[Dr. J.]

Not remotely

Option 1: Get a camera with a big ass SD card and plan to stop by once a week to swap the cards. Take the old card home, connect it to your computer and review the footage.

Option 2: Invest in a cellular setup - typically used on remote locations or job sites. Full system will run $1,000 - $1,500 for a one camera and all hardware setup - but this will let you monitor remotely and live. The other option is to rent one of these setups, this varies $150-$300 ish per month on average.

Thanks for taking the time in trying to assist zero-degrees.

What do you mean by not remotely? Are you saying that the physical camera, has to be connected to the Internet at the physical location it is placed, in order to be able to watch playback remotely?

Also, for the "option 1" you mentioned, why would I have to come by once a week and swap SD cards? Once the SD card is full, aren't there options to record over old footage? If that is the case, I could view remotely as needed, and allow the footage to record over itself when full. But my question is can I watch remotely via an app or website, if that physical SD camera isn't connected to the Internet at the physical location?

For "option 2",as I explained in my initial post, I'm a newbie to all of this. Have no idea what you're talking about when referring to a cellular setup. Can you be a bit more detailed and explain what this means exactly?

Thanks again

 

[Dr. J.]

There is no way to use public wifi for your camera to view remotely. You'll need access to the router to configure port forwarding and such so that wont work for you. Best bet is game camera or a 4g setup which will require a monthly fee. Is there no way to have a separate modem and router on the property than what your tenants will be using? Will of course require a monthly fee but you'll be able to set it up normally with whatever cameras and nvr you want.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using Tapatalk

Thanks zebrock, your reply now makes sense. You're right, if I don't have access to a router, I suppose port forwarding, etc would be impossible.

If I go with the SD camera option, would that still have to be connected to the net, to be able to view remotely? I'm assuming so, but want to ask because I'm so ignorant about the subject.

Also, when we say game camera, what are we taking about exactly? Where would i buy a game camera and how would that provide access to view remotely without Internet at the physical location where the game camera is installed?

Also, I might be able to trouble my tenant to place a DVR at the property, but I am assuming that even having the camera hard wired, with a DVR at the physical location, I would still need it to be connected to the Internet to view remotely, since this is my main goal? It would be an inconvenience to have to bother the tenant for access to the DVR whenever I needed to view footage.

Lastly, what would having a separate router at their location do? Would I have to pay for additional internet at that property or could I have the router setup to piggyback off the public WiFi we use there?

 

[Dr. J.]

I've seen rental properties where there was a locked closet where the owner stored some stuff. And one that really crossed the line, the owner kept their stuff in about half of the kitchen and put locks on the cabinets.

On the lock box, an alternative is to just be a little flexible about the date the rent check is due and rely on the USPS. Rent is due on the 1st with a grace period through the 5th works well. You could also rig up contact switch to something like a Particle Electron. You could even hook sensors to the front & back door and a temp sensor. That would alert you if somebody turn off the heat / it broke and possibly if somebody was having a party (not that that would be violation of the lease necessarily) in addition to opening the rent box.

Another direction you could go would be internet is included in the rent. You pay comcast, wire up the house with a few networking jacks, and put some networking hardware in a locked cabinet (including an nvr you review if there's an incident) with a simple power reset mechanism rigged up.

Public wifi like xfinity often has a captive portal and requires periodic re-authentication. It's not suitable for a camera. As for cellular, it's a question of how much you want to pay per month / how conservative you manage to be with bandwidth.

Lmao.... I don't need a big brother, 007, iSpy operation there, I just simply need a way to monitor and protect my investments. I have 2 properties there which are both occupied. Tenant 1 is a family that occupies the larger, main property, and tenant 2 is a single dude who rents the guest property/studio apt. And I'm not cheap and would never think of bothering my tenants with heavy duty equipment there or with intrusive surveillance. I simply need to 1, protect my investment and be able to check the video of one of them says they left the cash or check in the box and haven't (which happened in the past) and 2, be able to view footage if the need arises resolve an issue between them such as parking, etc.

Hence, the need to be able to place a physical camera at the location, with the ability to watch video (when necessary), in a remote manner where I don't have to be driving down to the properties to see what transpired. And not being cheap, but yes, if I can do this in the most cost effective manner, then why not. Simple enough, I thought.... Guess I was wrong lol.

The idea to include Internet with the rent is not a bad one, but again, I would have to trouble the tenant with equilateral there home, which I'm not particularly fond of doing. If they are generally good tenants, I like to give them there space and not bother them at all.

 

[looney2ns]

Here is an example of a cellular game camera: Cellular Game & Trail Cameras | Trailcampro

If you don't use the tenants internet connection or a cellular modem setup, you're not going to be able to remotely view.

A regular game camera that does not have cellular network capabilities, They record strictly to an internal SD memory card, hence the suggestion above you would have to swap out memory cards periodically to view pictures or video.

I think your "panties in a bunch" to nayr was uncalled for. He was simply stating facts.