Need Your Help to Decide between T54IR-ZE and Color4K-T and How to Install It

[hydrau1]

Hi all,

I reside in a townhouse in Toronto Canada (so we get snow and plenty of cold weather outside). I have deep dived alot on this site about the different kinds of considerations when purchasing a security camera. I think I've settled on the 4MP T54-IR-ZE S3 Varifocal and the 8MP Color4K-T. I had a few questions to ask this knowledgeable community to figure out which one would be the ultimate best option.

Some extra context:

• I live in a large city within a townhouse complex and there is ambient lighting around from the city street lamp post and some of the other townhouses across the street have lights on to.
• This would be the first time I am having security cameras installed on the house...so there is no CAT ethernet cables running from the outside at this time. I will need to get that sorted.
• That also means I do not have any NVR equipment or Switch or switch injector either.
• The only thing I have hardware wise is a Synology NAS and would like to use the NAS to have the security camera feed into. I guess I would be using the Synology as a replacement for Blue Iris.
• As I live in a cold weather environment the camera I buy for my townhouse would need to withstand the harsh cold environments (e.g., lots of snow, rain, general cold weather)
• I would prefer a turret camera over bullet because I want the camera to look discreet and not give itself away and a bullet camera looks much more obvious. Also, I want the camera to be coloured black to help with the discreetness and be more stealthy.

My questions:

1. There is a city street light lamp post about 100ft out on my main street that provides some light in front of our house. As mentioned in the context above, I live in a major city (not rural) and there is ambient lighting around. With that context, do you think the Color4K-T should suffice and be preferable over the 5442/T54-IR-ZE S3 Varifocal?
2. I would like my video footage to be in color not black and white. Does the 5442/T54-IR Varifocal produce color video or only black and white? I know the Color4K does and does an exceptional job in low light/nighttime use which is what I want.
3. The only question I have with the Color4K-T is that its not available in varifocal like the 5442 is...is there any news of a new varifocal coming out anytime soon in the larger 1/1.8" sensor? Perhaps I may want to wait if that is the case.
4. With the Color4K-T only doing fixed focal lengths, I then have to decide whether to go with 2.8 or 3.6mm. My parameters are I would like to be able to identify within 30ft or so. I read 2.8mm would be quite wide and may not provide good identification so 3.6mm would work but I'd be wanting to "test" by quickly mounting it to a few different spots.
5. I know some of the advice on this forum is to just buy the 5442 Varifocal and mount it in various places around the house to determine what the best focal length would be and then buy a fixed one for that. My issue is that I dont have any infrastructure set up (no ethernet cables outside the house) and I dont even know how I would go about mounting the 5442 varifocal camera to the exterior of my house in an easy way. Are there an easy way/ or a hack you have used to get the camera mounted quickly externally to various parts of your home? Would love to know what I can do. And how did you route ethernet cables there to give it power?
6. As I am expecting to use my security camera with a Synology NAS, can I skip needing an NVR? Do I still need a switch? What about the injector? I've read alot about the security cameras but dont have as much of a clue on the hardware necessary to get the cameras up and running well so I really look forward to your guidance and advice.

Thank you so much for your time and helping me sort this out.

 

[bigredfish]

1- need a night pic looking out the way the camera would. The concern is you have a backlight condition where the lights out in the street effectively provide a backlit condition for a person closer in looking at the home. So its bright out beyond him, but the bad guy up close is dark facing you.
2-The 5442 can run color at night, but you need a lot of light to do so without motion blur. Again a nighttime pic would help. The 4K certainly can, but you'll have that flashlight type LED on all night unless there's enough light. The 4K CAN NOT do or see IR
3- Larger 1/1.2" sensor and no
4- 3.6 hands down and then you're still at the limits of good facial ID
5- I'll let a Pro installer handle that one. Bottom line yeah you gotta get a cable to the camera
6- Again I'll defer to a Pro

 

[camdensnyder]

I think there needs to be an updated sticky thread that describes the popular cameras specs and what situations you would want that camera for! Seems like this question gets asked every other day

 

[wittaj]

^It is kinda in this thread lol

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[hydrau1]

^It is kinda in this thread lol

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

I've read parts of that thread. My questions are not just about focal length, I have other questions around installation, NAS, etc. I'd appreciate any responses you can weigh in on. Thank you,

 

[wittaj]

My response was to the reply directly above mine, thus the ^, not necessarily to your post.

But regarding your NAS question and other questions not answered, it comes down to your use - are you going to use their VMS system or use it simply to store video - that makes a difference as to whether the NVR supplies POE power or a POE switch or injector.

When testing locations, most of us run a long cable out a window or under the garage and hook the camera to a board in a bucket or to a ladder. Most of us don't test by actually hanging the camera on the house until we know where.

You can force the 5442 into color if you have enough light. The new S3 chip gives the 4K cams a run for their money.

There is nothing special about a "full color" camera except it comes with white light instead of infrared, so if there is any doubt as to available light, it is best to go with a camera that can see infrared. Most here don't use the built in white light of the full color cams as they attract more bugs than infrared and the white light from the camera usually looks out of place on a house

But given the tight focus circle we have seen with the 4K cameras of about 14-18 feet and anything shorter or longer than that is soft/blurry, I would only use it as an overview and opt for the 5442 varifocal where you dial the focus in to your field of view.

 

[flynreelow]

My response was to the reply directly above mine, thus the ^, not necessarily to your post.

But regarding your NAS question and other questions not answered, it comes down to your use - are you going to use their VMS system or use it simply to store video - that makes a difference as to whether the NVR supplies POE power or a POE switch or injector.

When testing locations, most of us run a long cable out a window or under the garage and hook the camera to a board in a bucket or to a ladder. Most of us don't test by actually hanging the camera on the house until we know where.

You can force the 5442 into color if you have enough light. The new S3 chip gives the 4K cams a run for their money.

There is nothing special about a "full color" camera except it comes with white light instead of infrared, so if there is any doubt as to available light, it is best to go with a camera that can see infrared. Most here don't use the built in white light of the full color cams as they attract more bugs than infrared and the white light from the camera usually looks out of place on a house

But given the tight focus circle we have seen with the 4K cameras of about 14-18 feet and anything shorter or longer than that is soft/blurry, I would only use it as an overview and opt for the 5442 varifocal where you dial the focus in to your field of view.

in regards to the white light.... in the video posted by empire on youtube, the light looked way brighter than i thought it was going to be.

 

[Ri22o]

For reference, these are the T54IR-ZE and Color4K-X.

T54IR-ZE set to 12mm and I am at 40ft.


4K-X is 3.6mm and I am at 16ft and 22ft.

 

[wittaj]

in regards to the white light.... in the video posted by empire on youtube, the light looked way brighter than i thought it was going to be.

View attachment 192292

These white lights on the cameras are a little brighter than a mobile device flashlight - looks bright looking straight at it, but from the camera looking out, maybe a 10-20 foot circle once you speed up the shutter to minimize blur.

Think about a couple of cellphone flashlights pointed at you - the white LED is bright looking straight into them.

Here is what it looks like with the LED at 100%. Camera on the left, a flashlight in the middle, and a cellphone on the right.

And with just the camera on the left and a cellphone flashlight on the right.

 

[bigredfish]

They’re very noticeable

 

[flynreelow]

They’re very noticeable

View attachment 192296

do u keep these on at night? or if it senses motion or IVS?

or do you already have plenty of light to run this in color all night?

 

[wittaj]

do u keep these on at night? or if it senses motion or IVS?

or do you already have plenty of light to run this in color all night?

The lights are either on or off. They are not motion sensing lights. That is the TIOC line that favors gimmicky stuff over image performance and can have the lights be motion sensing, at the expense of exposure issues at the money shot of the perp.

And they are noticeable from the street and tend to look out of place compared to normal house lighting.

And then the bugs.

 

[bigredfish]

I run it all night. Gimmee a minute I'll show you something some folks dont think about

 

[flynreelow]

The lights are either on or off. They are not motion sensing lights. That is the TIOC line that favors gimmicky stuff over image performance.

And they are noticeable from the street and tend to look out of place compared to normal house lighting.

And then the bugs.

what i meant, is u can have them on a schedule to turn them on and off, since they dont need to be on during the day.

and bugs, what are those?

 

[wittaj]

what i meant, is u can have them on a schedule to turn them on and off, since they dont need to be on during the day.

and bugs, what are those?

Oh, yeah you can set them on a schedule and have them come on during a schedule or when it gets dark enough. And you can set the intensity at which they come on too.

Bugs. I am sure @bigredfish will post a video sample soon LOL

 

[bigredfish]

Yeah I run a schedule profile. Separate day/Night settings - they;re only on at night

But we always ask the question:
Do you have enough light to run them at night without the LED's on?

Sure, if you don't care about the real important shot, when the BG is 10ft from the camera going between the houses to the backyard


My primary concern is a good face shot at the choke point, the street is simply bonus

 

[flynreelow]

Yeah I run a schedule profile. Separate day/Night settings - they;re only on at night

But we always ask the question:
Do you have enough light to run them at night without the LED's on?

Sure, if you don't care about the real important shot, when the BG is 10ft from the camera going between the houses to the backyard
View attachment 192297

My primary concern is a good face shot at the choke point, the street is simply bonus
View attachment 192298

that looks great with the LED.

had no clue it was going to make that much of a difference. def need to get mine installed.

 

[bigredfish]

Yeah bugs love 'em

View attachment BUGS-Home_ch1_20230604212606_20230604212629.mp4

 

[Arjun]

I'll be honest and say that the TIOC lines have proven successful on some of my installs - when paired with an actual camera (side by side) like the well-regarded 5442 cameras.
Although the built in warm light illuminators can't stay on the whole night otherwise people can't sleep and defeats the purpose of 24/7 recording - which is why I said previously, there's a reason why these TIOC cameras are cheap; after a certain time, you want a good low-light performing camera to take over during the night like the 5442.

The 1/2" inch 4K camera is great in daylight, but is still gimmicky at night when lighting conditions are average to poor.

The 5442 is the sweet spot.

Its good to have a myriad of options when it comes to current cameras on the market. They all work in tandem when set up right and purposefully.

The lights are either on or off. They are not motion sensing lights. That is the TIOC line that favors gimmicky stuff over image performance and can have the lights be motion sensing, at the expense of exposure issues at the money shot of the perp.

And they are noticeable from the street and tend to look out of place compared to normal house lighting.

And then the bugs.

 

[wittaj]

I'll be honest and say that the TIOC lines have proven successful on some of my installs - when paired with an actual camera (side by side) like the well-regarded 5442 cameras.

I bolded the important statement LOL.

I have 4 TIOC to provide audible warnings and what not, but each one is paired with a 5442 LOL