Neighbor wants what I have but that's not going to happen.

[user8963]

So for $320 someone can find a very capable refurbished PC and toss BI on it and not be limited to 16 cameras...

In my opinion that is comparing apples vs oranges...

- new NVR vs. 10 years old "refurbished" (someone took a cloth and wipe over) PC
Who knows what happen to this guy in early life? Power supply maybe has swollen/leaking caps, some of these pre-lease machines (SFF) have proprietary power supplies and motherboards, maybe you will find a "reburbished" one on ebay if it fail. but go to a computer store and get parts? lol no.. (this is also true for nvr, but in my opinion the chance that a brand new unused nvr will fail is smaller)

- you have to buy a POE switch , so maybe +100-200USD
sure you can buy a cheap one, but what about vlans ... etc ?
comparing cheap 4port unmanaged poe switch with 16port nvr ? ...

- then you need someone who config the bi machine if you have no idea how
there are many open BI machines from these guys online.. they watched a youtube video from hook up, was somehow able to setup the machine...
i looked into some public BI machines... most have some offline channels, timestamp over timestamp, wrong time, complete useless motion detection AND more important... why are they public for everyone ?
maybe you have a helping friend... but the friend have to know that he will person nr. 1 who is getting called if something is going on...

- then there will be a day where the person ask... oh friend installed a reolink system... the app is so cool, he can watch everything from his mobile phone
yes.. there is a BI app... but... just look at the ratings from play store and into the app...
i have no idea who is developing the app... but maybe they should stop doing it,... it somehow ruin the name of blue iris...
sure you can use UI3 , but i mean really... using a webpage on mobile phone in 2021 ?? maybe the main reason for these open BI machines...
here are people who are complaining about active x plugin / using internet explorer...

- benefits by using a BI machine for a "normal" user who want just basic functions ? in my opinion the main questions...
sure BI can do most better, you can customize it , many things are not possible with nvr... but if someone dont need it, why have it ?

- also what is "maybe" (i am not really in the topic)
bandwidth is not comparable... nvr can use h265 (maybe with smart codec) with no "real" problems, which will reduce bandwidth and storage.
nvr cpu (of better machines like 5216) will not struggle that fast with higher fps (etc) settings

and so on...

 

[Left Coast Geek]

FWIW, I use the Android BI app on my phone nad on my tablet, it works just fine for me. its particularly handy when I'm aiming a camera, but I also access it (via a VPN server on my router) when I'm out of town just to check up on the place.

 

[wittaj]

One can go with cheaper POE switches and a $10 NIC eliminates the need for VLANs...I can use H265 with Blue Iris no problem...

Comparing the capabilities of an NVR versus Blue Iris is an apples to oranges comparison to begin with....point being to get to comparable capabilities the price point is comparable...

Have you tried an NVR for playback - most of them suck. I can literally in less than a minute watch any activity from overnight on Blue Iris. It takes longer than that just to log into my NVR. And then playback is atrocious - even more so if you need to watch back for several days to find out when that car parked on the street was hit.

The ability to add more cameras and from different brands and do 3rd party add-ons if you desire I believe puts the favor into Blue Iris.

Most NVRs will cap the bitrate you use due to bandwidth cap of 320 Mbps for good NVRs and under 88 for cheaper ones. And limit the resolution of the camera. As long as your computer can handle it, BI can accept whatever bitrate and resolution the camera is capable of.

I have had whatever the NVR operating system is running on go out. TWICE. Got to buy a whole new NVR - TWICE

I have had the ethernet port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

i had the HDMI port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

Most I ever got was 2.5 years. The only working part was the HDD that I simply moved from the old NVR to the new one. I got to the point of realizing that an NVR is simply a stripped down computer, so I went to BI and never looked back. I got tired of buying a whole new NVR every time a component failed on it.

So in my BI Computer, at least if the SSD goes out, I can just replace it. If the ethernet card goes out, I can just replace it. If the HDMI port goes out, I can just replace it. etc.

Personally I gave up on NVRs because I have found them to be clunky and a struggle to review clips and if a component goes out like the internet port, then you are stuck buying a new NVR whereas a computer part goes out and you replace just that component. I went to BI on a dedicated machine and haven't looked back.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

do you guys usually record 24/7, or just on motion trigger?

 

[wittaj]

Most record 24/7 so that in the event motion didn't work you still have video.

We all like a lot of storage, but reality is if it happened more than 3 weeks ago you probably aren't going to be going thru video to try to find something....

24/7 allows the overview to catch peripheral activity down the street that motion detection wouldn't capture (unless set way too sensitive). Neighbor car like 6 houses down got sideswiped by a drunk in middle of the night. My overview picked it up (noise of collision) so I could get the time and was then used to tie the car to my LPR and the police was able to track owner down.

Without that 24/7 all I could have done was provided a list of plates of vehicles that night.

 

[nelgnl]

24/7 so I don't miss anything.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

my view of the road is from 180 feet away, and perpendicular, looking through a tree tunnel .... about all its good for is counting cars. now it is timestamped, and you tell what size/color car it was and how about fast it was going, also audio. if I'd been recording, it would have heard a crash-rollover that I was one of first-on-scene right in front of my neighbors but off my camera, and the timestamp on that audio recording would have determined exactly when he hit the brick retainer, and how many seconds til he came to rest. I was still dialing 9-1-1 when that Sheriff was getting out of his truck, total coincidence he was there, but he took charge of the scene, called it in waited for the CHP, helped direct traffic til the 2nd CHP and towtruck showed up.

 

[user8963]

Personally I gave up on NVRs because I have found them to be clunky and a struggle to review clips and if a component goes out like the internet port, then you are stuck buying a new NVR whereas a computer part goes out and you replace just that component. I went to BI on a dedicated machine and haven't looked back.

Yeah... you are right , but again...
If you have no idea then you will be in trouble with blue iris,,, Most people just want plug and play and forget. Setting up such a machine needs time, basic knowledge or someone who is doing the job... and then you have to call him if you have questions..
So anyone have to decide on his own if he needs the capabilities of blue iris and have the time/money to set it up, or just want basic functions...
with dahua nvr/cameras you have a little more than just basic, but not what you can have with blue iris for sure...

The knowledge starts on buying... one would buy HP mini (because its so small and cheap), cannot put 3,5" surveillance rated harddisk in it, buy a SMR (which is complete useless for small random continuous write activity) instead of datacenter rated disk or ssd and needs footage... all what he sees is missing frames or just use motion triggers and have a missed detection... so you invested money and time, and still fail.

So all in all its more a general discussion.. one would go blue iris because he needs all the features or is a person who wants always the best... and another one is happy with is nvr system...

Here in europe you are only allowed to record your own property and other limitations, so there is mostly no need/rights for such systems But if you like it, you can use it (with limitations).. for sure.
It is all time consuming to read, buy, config, troubleshooting... not sure if Holbs here want to go this way for his neighboor...

 

[wittaj]

All true and valid points as well, but NVRs are not plug-n-play either.

One has to dial in not only the camera settings, but the motion settings.

The ones that treat it as plug-n-play end up turning off alerts due to so many false triggers.

Then they never look at the device until something happens...then they find out the NVR or cameras were not working.

I called my neighbor one time as my overview caught a door checker at his car and he pulled up his NVR and found out it had no recordings. The HDD failed. I was able to kinda get it going and saw that it had quit recording 8 months prior.

Another problem is if someone buys an NVR and then decides they want more cameras. They need to buy another NVR, whereas with Blue Iris they can just add the cameras.

 

[Arjun]

Oh I've had to put up with that several times already but hasn't been a big deal, haha. I do agree that there is a learning curve on BI, but the manual for the most part is self-explanatory. Then it boils down to how technically proficient the neighbors are
Thank goodness my neighbors aren't into the cloud scam, but I know a few people that installed Ring cameras on their properties arguing with me that its the best tech out there

If your not technically proficient, and the BI looks like Neolithic cave scrawling to you, and it's your neighbor, do you want to be over there every other night for 3 months? LUCy!? Ju got some Splainin to do!

 

[Left Coast Geek]

yah, all that. I'm the latest idjit who bought the HP mini after a bunch of crappy cameras. Its OK, if the drive craps out on me, I'll get something better. maybe I'll end up making that little box my big desktop to replace my old I5-3570K beast... . I'm pretty sure this HP supports dual 4K monitors as-is (currently I have dual 24" 1920x1200 IPS monitors, a pair of Dell U2412M)

and, even if its the best damn NVR of all time, that package with 4 or 6 or 8 or whatever cameras, they are going to be the cheapest cameras they can get away with.

the 5442 class 1/1.3" cams that have the awesome night vision are like $160-200 each OEM, maybe half again more retail. so a 8 cam package of fixed FL '5442 cams would be the better part of $2000, before you even get into the NVR and cabling, and labor to install..

 

[Left Coast Geek]

my view of the road is from 180 feet away, and perpendicular, looking through a tree tunnel .... about all its good for is counting cars. ....

I will never get a car year/make/model nor a license plate from here...

 

[wittaj]

I will never get a car year/make/model nor a license plate from here...

Nor should you LOL. You might be able to make out make/model of some distinctive vehicles though.

Wrong camera.

Wrong angle.

But if you had the right camera and the right angle, here is mine at 175 feet away from the camera going 45 MPH:

 

[Arjun]

@wittaj What are your settings? How far is your Z12 camera mount from the street? Also are you using the full 64mm focal length?

Nor should you LOL. You might be able to make out make/model of some distinctive vehicles though.

Wrong camera.

Wrong angle.

But if you had the right camera and the right angle, here is mine at 175 feet away from the camera going 45 MPH:

View attachment 99381

 

[SJGUSMC21]

All true and valid points as well, but NVRs are not plug-n-play either.

One has to dial in not only the camera settings, but the motion settings.

The ones that treat it as plug-n-play end up turning off alerts due to so many false triggers.

Then they never look at the device until something happens...then they find out the NVR or cameras were not working.

I called my neighbor one time as my overview caught a door checker at his car and he pulled up his NVR and found out it had no recordings. The HDD failed. I was able to kinda get it going and saw that it had quit recording 8 months prior.

Another problem is if someone buys an NVR and then decides they want more cameras. They need to buy another NVR, whereas with Blue Iris they can just add the cameras.

I have a DHI-NVR5216-4KS2 and love it. You are correct, it certainly doesn't configure its self, but you just need basic networking knowledge to do so, IMO. I view my device every morning (maybe skip a day during the week) and look over the previous nights recordings. It thus far has been fantastic. I know it doesn't do everything that BI does, but it does enough for me.

Though I have never dealt with BI, I have no doubt I could. I just didn't want another PC to setup and maintain in my household. I already have 5, that's enough for me.

 

[Arjun]

Exactly, no point of a surveillance system if you're not reviewing it on a regular basis

I have a DHI-NVR5216-4KS2 and love it. You are correct, it certainly doesn't configure its self, but you just need basic networking knowledge to do so, IMO. I view my device every morning (maybe skip a day during the week) and look over the previous nights recordings. It thus far has been fantastic. I know it doesn't do everything that BI does, but it does enough for me.

Though I have never dealt with BI, I have no doubt I could. I just didn't want another PC to setup and maintain in my household. I already have 5, that's enough for me.

 

[wittaj]

Exactly, no point of a surveillance system if you're not reviewing it on a regular basis

Yep, but that is what happens to most Average Joe's lol. None of my neighbors regularly look at their NVRs at any frequency LOL.

One neighbor I mentioned his went out 8 months prior to an event.

Another neighbors was out for two years before he noticed.

If you just plug-n-play, you end up turning off the alerts because you get so many and then you have no idea if the thing is working.

Heck, I got to that point with my NVR - I only looked at it if I knew something happened or a neighbor called asking me if I caught something two nights ago.

Even though they are both reactive in nature, I consider BI to be more proactive because I can literally in less than a minute see if anything within my "personal space" happened the night before.

Pulling up the same clips via the NVR, forget about it in a minute LOL, so my NVR became more reactive where I only looked at it if something happened.

But to those that have an NVR that they can quickly pull it up or spent the time to get it to that point, more power to you!

 

[Arjun]

And you can't really configure the notification system on the NVR's because for the average person, they won't know how to secure their systems (so they will keep them disconnected from the world wide web), due to fear of China looking at them changing their bottom-wear through the peephole

Yep, but that is what happens to most Average Joe's lol. None of my neighbors regularly look at their NVRs at any frequency LOL.

One neighbor I mentioned his went out 8 months prior to an event.

Another neighbors was out for two years before he noticed.

If you just plug-n-play, you end up turning off the alerts because you get so many and then you have no idea if the thing is working.

Heck, I got to that point with my NVR - I only looked at it if I knew something happened or a neighbor called asking me if I caught something two nights ago.

Even though they are both reactive in nature, I consider BI to be more proactive because I can literally in less than a minute see if anything within my "personal space" happened the night before.

Pulling up the same clips via the NVR, forget about it in a minute LOL, so my NVR became more reactive where I only looked at it if something happened.

But to those that have an NVR that they can quickly pull it up or spent the time to get it to that point, more power to you!

 

[wittaj]

Speaking of NVRs....we had a several hour power outage last night that exceeded the battery backup of the NVR.

Now the NVR is dead as a door nail, as are the cameras connected to the POE of the NVR...

My other IP cameras on separate backups still maintained running and storing to the SD card.

Fortunately in my case I can now just switch out the NVR with a POE switch and be back in business as I was simply using the NVR as a backup for some of the cams and to feed into BI.

Another NVR that didn't last 2 years...

 

[TVille]

do you guys usually record 24/7, or just on motion trigger?

I record 24/7 full quality, not sub-stream. I had an incident where a car carrying a couple of KKK (yes, they are apparently still around) idiots drop a baggie with corn, for weight, and a flyer near our mailbox. Having a recording allowed me to quickly find when they came by, direction, etc. Nothing was done to them other than ignoring them as we just want them to go away, and about all the did was litter. This camera does not alert or record motion on every car coming down the street, with hundreds a day, that would be tiring to try and go through them versus alerts I really want, folks coming up the drive.